Should we allow N'Diaye and Berge to run down their contracts?

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Sheffsteel

Sheffsteel

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and then BOTH leave on a free next after next season.

Love how people casually say "keep N'Diaye and Berge", in an ideal world of course we should keep them.
However there's a massive financial implication. They will both in the final year of their contracts next season.

In the Summer if we wanted to sell we'd probably receive £20 million for N'Diaye and £10 million for Berge.
Note: Of course their normal value is much higher but as it's their final year, then their values have dropped.

So the question is would you pay (lose out on) £20 million to have N'Diaye for 1 season?
If the answer is yes, then that works out at a cost of £400K a week.
So his agent would use the logic, if SUFC are prepared to lose £400K a week to keep N'Diaye next year
then paying him a £100K per week salary to keep him is an absolute bargain, especially as there's then a huge re-sale value, if SU wish to cash in in a few years.

Similar with Berge, if we keep these players next season, we are losing out on £30 million.
However I suppose we'd obviously need to pay more than £30 million to replace them.
However some of our big buys this Summer will be classed as investments,
where as we'll have lost all the investment in N'Diaye and Berge if we let both run down their contracts.

So my question is.....
do we gamble....make a serious attempt at trying to stay up next season.....knowing whether we stay up or not....we lose 30 million
or do we cash in during the Summer and add the £30 million to the transfer kitty?

Alternatively we could decide to pay these players the going rate salary for a PL player, with imaginative "pro player" clauses thrown in. My fear is that we would need to massively blow the salary structure to keep them, which is a massive risk as neither player have previously done much in the Premier League.
 

You gamble.

It'll be no benefit having money to sign a replacement who, in the best case scenario, will move on once we're relegated, thus continuing the cycle of up and down.

Use what we have whilst we have it and make a concerted attempt at establishing a team that can endure.
 
Try to get them to sign a new contract extension with a slight wage increase, but a minimum release clause that becomes active after July 2024, the amount of which depends on what division we are in.

For example give N'Diaye a 30% wage rise and for a one-year extension set a minimum release clause of £30 million if we stay up, which will be £15 million if we go down.
 
No in my opinion.

Contract situation of the first team squad should be priority number one and I’d bet the clubs senior management are already working on it.

I don’t buy the Alan Nixon story that Berge will run his contract down anyway. Why would that whopper know. Not like Berge would discuss it with him and Berge doesn’t seem the type who’d screw us over totally.

Make them both an offer and see what they say. N’Diaye should be a structure busting offer to make him the clubs highest paid player.

If they refuse to sign then see what suitors are out there for them and what fees we could raise.

Plucking figures out my arse… but it was rumoured Fulham we’re interested in Berge for almost 20m 3/4 months ago. Say Heckys replacement is valued at 15m… punt him round for £10m and just pay the £5m now rather than let him walk for free and have to pay £15m out in a years time.

We’ll just have to wait and see but my preference would be to get a fee and get the replacements in that will be on 3/4 year contracts over someone ticking down their final year. We need to be building a future squad.

Sure the management will have drawn up plans for a few different scenarios already though.

I really like both of them as players so would be amazing to get them on longer deals but we just don’t want it lingering on to a few games into the season as deadline day looms.
 
Woolford of Wall Street said:
You gamble.

It'll be no benefit having money to sign a replacement who, in the best case scenario, will move on once we're relegated, thus continuing the cycle of up and down.

Use what we have whilst we have it and make a concerted attempt at establishing a team that can endure.
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If we buy a replacement then they'll have a transfer value.

The club policy last time in the PL was to buy young players for £20 million with high potential, like Robinson, Brewster, McBurnie, Berge, Ramsdale.
The logic is we might have paid £20 mill but if the worse comes to the worse and we're relegated, there's a good chance we'll get our investment back (like what happened with Ramsdale). So if we sell them, they've costs very little. The downside is..when you buy players with potential..it's a risk because they might not deliver.

If we're relegated and we sell the replacement like you suggest, we might receive our £20/25 million back.
Where as, if we keep N'Diaye ad Berge, we receive £0.00 back.

I'm just hoping that Bettis and Co, already have detailed plans in place regards our Summer transfer strategy.
You would expect we already have long list of potential targets lined up and already have lucrative contract offers lined up to keep N'Diaye ad Berge.
I'm in the group that thinks Berge needs more time on the ball, so is likely to cope better in the PL than in the Championship.

Just hoping we find a buyer with genuine ambition and big ideas.
 
Berge can go in the summer, he is a quality player and it was absolutely the right decision to keep in the JTW, we weren’t going to strengthen and consistency in the team was important then.

Having said that, he just doesn’t fit and will never reach his full potential at this club, he’s not what you would call a square peg but he’s certainly an oval one with too many off days.

N'Diaye, no-brainer, gamble.
 
Like people have said, give Ndiaye a good pay increase and then put a fair minimum release clause in his contract. I do think behind it all he's probably quite hard-nosed and determined and don't think he'd hesitate to do what's best for his career over what's best for the club, I can't blame him, he's an incredibly talented footballer. He needs to prove himself at PL level though before he gets the big move he really wants. I think his ball retention skills will be massive for us next season as we'll be out possessed in almost every game. We won't replace him for anything approaching what we'd get for him so I'd keep him and make him as financially happy as we can.

Berge will be a different prospect next season and I'm not sure if playing for us in the PL will suit him better or worse than the Championship, we won't have the ball so he'll have to improve his ability to win it back. However he won't have cloggers kicking lumps off him either. We could replace Berge, we can't replace Ndiaye.
 
We are in a financial mess with big losses, owe millions for players bought in the PL last time and no cash flow, we would have to sell to keep going, re build the squad and the on going wage bill unfortunately
 
PaulHalfway said:
We are in a financial mess with big losses, owe millions for players bought in the PL last time and no cash flow, we would have to sell to keep going, re build the squad and the on going wage bill unfortunately
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Perfect opportunity to sell for the prince as a premiership club. Bournemouth were in a very similar situation to us, if they hadn't been promoted they would have been in big trouble. That's why they went for it with 4/5 loan signings in January to get them over the line. I'd expect by January next year we have new owners
 
I don`t think Berge will sign a new deal so sell if a decent offer comes in.

Keep Ndiaye on a new deal. We will need someone who has the ability to unlock a Premier League defence. Besides which I just love watching him play.
 
HarryHaslam said:
I honestly think Ndiaye will be sold at the end of the season. Someone will come in with a 30+ million pound offer and he will be off. Hope I’m wrong.
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Unfortunately, I agree, given the ownership situation, there's no motivation for the Prince to have a strategy. He will sell the crown jewels once promotion is secured, as he achieved his last ambition of more PL tv related money. Unless he sells very quickly, in the next few weeks/months we will remain in limbo, and no way will he invest or use PL capital.

If we're promoted, then he'll do likewise with Berge too. He probably took the view that it was worth the gamble keeping him in January to help secure PL riches. If achieved, then he'd sooner get £10-15m than nothing.

Promotion doesn't mean we will keep our few top class players, but it means we don't go under financially. The on the pitch future of the club is all but impossible to predict or be confident about at this stage.
 
Offer them slight extensions with large increases in wages. We cannot afford to replace them even if we sold at a top price ATM. We need to be building around those 2 and Anel of we want to be a side of decent stature. ⚔️
 

S40BLADE said:
Offer them slight extensions with large increases in wages. We cannot afford to replace them even if we sold at a top price ATM. We need to be building around those 2 and Anel of we want to be a side of decent stature. ⚔️
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The only problem we have is that Berge and Ndiaye may want to leave as other clubs will be able to offer substantially more money than we can
 
ben1987 said:
No in my opinion.

Contract situation of the first team squad should be priority number one and I’d bet the clubs senior management are already working on it.

I don’t buy the Alan Nixon story that Berge will run his contract down anyway. Why would that whopper know. Not like Berge would discuss it with him and Berge doesn’t seem the type who’d screw us over totally.

Make them both an offer and see what they say. N’Diaye should be a structure busting offer to make him the clubs highest paid player.

If they refuse to sign then see what suitors are out there for them and what fees we could raise.

Plucking figures out my arse… but it was rumoured Fulham we’re interested in Berge for almost 20m 3/4 months ago. Say Heckys replacement is valued at 15m… punt him round for £10m and just pay the £5m now rather than let him walk for free and have to pay £15m out in a years time.

We’ll just have to wait and see but my preference would be to get a fee and get the replacements in that will be on 3/4 year contracts over someone ticking down their final year. We need to be building a future squad.

Sure the management will have drawn up plans for a few different scenarios already though.

I really like both of them as players so would be amazing to get them on longer deals but we just don’t want it lingering on to a few games into the season as deadline day looms.
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you wont get another Ndiaye for 20 million one good season in the premier league ( even in a struggling team)would double at least that 20 million in value
 
Going up means we have a chance to retain their services, I guess as long as there is a clause in the contracts that allows them to leave under certain conditions. EG: relegation? release clause set at a minimum transfer fee value? Does loyalty come into this? Well, as Illi said he wanted to stay to help get the Blades up, that was a positive sign, but signing another contract is another matter entirely.

I would assume Hecky wants to keep them both, but as others say, that won't be top of PA's list. He'll be looking at what he can get for them, perhaps with a view to making it part of Hecky's transfer kitty? (knowing Hecky's two of our best players down then already)

As for their transfer value, I'm biased of course, but even hitting Illi's last 12 months, I would hope he still commands a considerable fee, especially as there are reported to be a number of clubs interested. For me £25m-£30m. Dyche was reported to have bid £25m so I don't see why not?

Regards Berge, I guess as he's in a promotion side and depending on how he does on Saturday when many eyes will be on him, he could still be worth £12m-£15m

All guess work of course
 
Need4speed said:
Give Ndiaye a £10 million signing on fee for a three year contract with a £30 million relegation release clause
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I don’t think that it’s totally about the money with these 2 players. In particular N’Diaye has ambitions and huge self belief that he can play at a lot higher level. He knows that his next contact is setting him up for life financially but will it help him achieve his footballing goals!
 
HarryHaslam said:
I honestly think Ndiaye will be sold at the end of the season. Someone will come in with a 30+ million pound offer and he will be off. Hope I’m wrong.
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Can't see any club offering that much when he's almost out of contract.

You would only offer 30 million for a player almost out of contract if they are one of the best players in world football.
An interested club only needs to wait a few months, then get him to agree a pre-contract to another club.

Also if we value him so highly.

Then surely his agent will say, when he's out of contract, even if a club pays him £100K a week over 4 years....it's still a bargain £20 million total cost.
That's less than what we paid for McBurnie or Brewster.

I've heard he's currently on 10K a week......so if his agent asks for it to increased to £100K should we pay it?
If not then.....if we think a club would pay a massive transfer for him....then surely that same club....
.....if paying zero transfer fee can easily afford to pay N'Daye £100K a week.

Think we need to be really imaginative with our contract offer because if there's no transfer fee you would think a PL would be willing to take a punt and pay him £50K to £100K a week. I remember the Prince admitting that we paid Jagileka £50K a week....it only made financial sense because there was a zero transfer fee.
 
ATL Recs said:
you wont get another Ndiaye for 20 million one good season in the premier league ( even in a struggling team)would double at least that 20 million in value
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I didn’t say you could get anywhere near N’Diaye’s talent for 20 million.

I said ideally we tie them to contracts and if we can’t then look at options.

My example was figures plucked out my arse based loosely around Berge.

N’Diaye would be worth a lot more both to us and to teams interested in signing him. If he went for 20 million now then we tried to sign his replacement for 30 million so a spend of 10 million… is that not better than him walking for free and then having to try and find someone in a similar mould for a full spend of 30 million?

We’d have to look abroad as I doubt there’s anyone at all in England who could coke close if MGW was 42.5m
 
CopenhagenBlade said:
I don’t think that it’s totally about the money with these 2 players. In particular N’Diaye has ambitions and huge self belief that he can play at a lot higher level. He knows that his next contact is setting him up for life financially but will it help him achieve his footballing goals!
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Excellent point.....agree.....N'Diaye could sell himself to the highest bidder.
Go to a club like West Ham....if there's no transfer fee then he might get £75K over 4 years and become a millionaire.
However he might struggle to get a game at another club and his career could stall.

If he stays with us we can guarantee him a starring role and a chance to impress in the Premier League.
We need to persuade him to stay in the short term, still give him a massive pay rise with a gaurantee that he'll get his big move at a later date.
 
Sheffsteel said:
Excellent point.....agree.....N'Diaye could sell himself to the highest bidder.
Go to a club like West Ham....if there's no transfer fee then he might get £75K over 4 years and become a millionaire.
However he might struggle to get a game at another club and his career could stall.

If he stays with us we can guarantee him a starring role and a chance to impress in the Premier League.
We need to persuade him to stay in the short term, still give him a massive pay rise with a gaurantee that he'll get his big move at a later date.
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The risk of staying with us next year is that we have a poor season and he then also has a poor season and his value and interest in him drops. He then might just get offers from lower end Premier and top end Championship. At the moment I could imagine that clubs all the way up to Villa are looking at him and willing to take a punt.
Wasn’t there also stories about him wanting to play for Marseille?
 
CopenhagenBlade said:
The risk of staying with us next year is that we have a poor season and he then also has a poor season and his value and interest in him drops. He then might just get offers from lower end Premier and top end Championship. At the moment I could imagine that clubs all the way up to Villa are looking at him and willing to take a punt.
Wasn’t there also stories about him wanting to play for Marseille?
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I agree to an extent however he could be to us what someone like Zaha has been to Palace where he pretty much carries them, same as Kane does with Spurs and is the main man.

He can still shine in a terrible team. Ramsdale case in point where he was crap to start with then started to come good later on and is in now pole position to get a Premier League winners medal and be playing Champions League football for a team who can actually threaten the latter stages i.e. not moves to Rangers or shitty Belgian sides chucking money about.

I'd hope that we get a full season out of him then he gets a move somewhere decent - not Marseille, Brentford, Everton, West Ham but more along the lines of a Newcastle, Villa, Brighton - clubs on the up. He might even be a good fit in Ten Hag's Man United team if they were to take a punt on him and bomb out Martial whose contract expires at the end of next season.
 
Sheffsteel said:
Can't see any club offering that much when he's almost out of contract.

You would only offer 30 million for a player almost out of contract if they are one of the best players in world football.
An interested club only needs to wait a few months, then get him to agree a pre-contract to another club.
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Well seeing as Everton supposedly offered 25 million a couple of months back a team desperately in need of a Ndiaye type player will bid more for such a great young talent.

Also any English clubs interested in him i.e Everton, can only sign him on a pre contract when he has a month left on his contract so not until the end of May 2024. But a foreign club can sign him on one in January. So if Everton don’t get relegated they won’t wait a year to sign him on a pre contract they will bid for him soon as they can so they don’t lose out to a foreign club in January. And the bid will be bigger than their previous bid.
 

We should make every effort to keep Ndiaye for as long as possible, fantastic player. If that means losing/selling Berge that’s ok with me.
 
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