Scougall/Off the ball running

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Bergen Blade

Bergen Blade

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It is true that he's struggled to get going this season. I would also have given him a low rating after yesterday's match, but I think people are far too quick to write him off. It's hard to say if it's best to stick with him, in the hope that his form improves, or if he needs to be a bench player for a while.

I would just like to point out something though. It is not true that he didn't do anything yesterday. It is often said that some fans don't notice all the work defensive midfielders put in. But the same goes for attacking midfielders, especially those whose role it is to get into the box and try to get on the end of things. This season both Basham and Scougall have been given this task.

As they both have significant defensive responsibilities as well it takes great stamina and work rate to make all these runs off the ball, and it does mean their touch is going to suffer. It is also by no means certain that their runs are going to pay off. Sometimes the ball just won't fall for you. Basham has had a lot of efforts this season, but has lacked a bit composure and some heading technique to convert. Scougall's main problem yesterday was that he didn't get the ball when he found good positions in the box.

Some examples:

Scougall run3.jpg
1. Flynn's early cross that Baxter ran onto and fired wide, Scougall is just too late to reach it.

Scougall run4.jpg
2. Another Flynn cross that Scougall wanted

Scougall run1.jpg 3. Scougall hoped for a knock down in this situation, but Baxter flicked it towards goal.

Scougall run2.jpg
4. Scougall screaming for the ball, but Murphy chose to have a go himself.



These would have been four goal scoring chances (similar to the goal he scored at Wembley) if his teammates had found him.
 

He was also the main player coming short for passes from the back 4 ,he just had an off day with his control and passing. I agree entirely with the first post.
 
McCarthy s bad passing yesterday in the 1st half was made to look far worse because Scougall did not see the hole midway right in there half. Alcock short and wide right.Flynn long and wide right. The hole was there and Scougall either ran out of it wanting a longer over the top pass or never moved towards it for McCarthy. He never once came to receive to either play back or turn and loads of space was there.
 
Scouggs is going to be one of those players who gets better the higher up the league ladder he plays,he has a very good footballing brain and it would be very foolish indeed to write a player of his ability off at the tender age of 21.Like sitters says,yesterday he had a bit of an off day,and he's had a few others along the way,but haven't a lot of our players had off days,he isn't the only one.He'll be a cracking player for us in time,he's still learning.
 
Bergen Blade said:
It is true that he's struggled to get going this season. I would also have given him a low rating after yesterday's match, but I think people are far too quick to write him off. It's hard to say if it's best to stick with him, in the hope that his form improves, or if he needs to be a bench player for a while.

I would just like to point out something though. It is not true that he didn't do anything yesterday. It is often said that some fans don't notice all the work defensive midfielders put in. But the same goes for attacking midfielders, especially those whose role it is to get into the box and try to get on the end of things. This season both Basham and Scougall have been given this task.

As they both have significant defensive responsibilities as well it takes great stamina and work rate to make all these runs off the ball, and it does mean their touch is going to suffer. It is also by no means certain that their runs are going to pay off. Sometimes the ball just won't fall for you. Basham has had a lot of efforts this season, but has lacked a bit composure and some heading technique to convert. Scougall's main problem yesterday was that he didn't get the ball when he found good positions in the box.

Some examples:

View attachment 9642
1. Flynn's early cross that Baxter ran onto and fired wide, Scougall is just too late to reach it.

View attachment 9643
2. Another Flynn cross that Scougall wanted

View attachment 9644 3. Scougall hoped for a knock down in this situation, but Baxter flicked it towards goal.

View attachment 9645
4. Scougall screaming for the ball, but Murphy chose to have a go himself.



These would have been four goal scoring chances (similar to the goal he scored at Wembley) if his teammates had found him.
Click to expand...

You have to wonder if Scougall is being vocal enough in demanding the ball when he's in good shooting positions?

According to the official site, he's had no goals, no assists and only one shot on goal in seven appearances. Not a big enough contribution from an attacking midfielder.

He doesn't deserve to start at the moment while the likes of JCR, Davies and McNulty are on the bench.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
You have to wonder if Scougall is being vocal enough in demanding the ball when he's in good shooting positions?

According to the official site, he's had no goals, no assists and only one shot on goal in seven appearances. Not a big enough contribution from an attacking midfielder.

He doesn't deserve to start at the moment while the likes of JCR, Davies and McNulty are on the bench.
Click to expand...


Not sure how vocal he would be as I'm on the kop, but he's always waving for the ball and asking for a pass, more so than any other player. He always wants a touch and when he gets it turns goalwards, one of few players we have who do so. I think we should stick with him, he will get better as the team gels more and with (hopefully) a run of good form.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
You have to wonder if Scougall is being vocal enough in demanding the ball when he's in good shooting positions?

According to the official site, he's had no goals, no assists and only one shot on goal in seven appearances. Not a big enough contribution from an attacking midfielder.

He doesn't deserve to start at the moment while the likes of JCR, Davies and McNulty are on the bench.
Click to expand...

This. There are better options at present, most notably all 3 of the players that Sothall mentions here.
 
Scougall 4/10 – Really poor. I have heard he turned the game at Colchester but have to say what a poor season he has had in the games I have seen. Looks nothing like the player of last season. Totally anonymous most of the game. Rarely got on the ball, never caused the defence any problems and sadly seemed to hide much of the game. When the ball came to him his touch was poor. He was excellent last season when he came in but has to improve massively for me. No surprise he went off when he did. He could have come off a lot sooner.
Click to expand...

IF his teammates had picked out Scougall in three of those situations and he'd smashed in a hat trick, with the rest of his game staying the same, would reports have been something like:

Scougall 8/10 - Fantastic hat trick after three trademark off the ball runs and quality finishes, quite similar to the goal he scored at Wembley. His movement is vital to the way we play and while Orient were good at marking Baxter out of the game, they couldn't cope with Scougall's runs into the box. Apart from this he was actually not at his best on the ball and was a bit in and out of the game. Answered some critics with his goals today and firmly cemented his place in the team.
Click to expand...

?
 
After the chance he missed against Bristol City, the assumption that Scougall would score even one goal seems potentially flawed.

No goals, no assists, midfield overrun at Chesterfield, at Swindon, immediate improvement after he and Reed were dropped...no, he shouldn't be anywhere near the first XI at this point.
 
Revolution said:
After the chance he missed against Bristol City, the assumption that Scougall would score even one goal seems potentially flawed.

No goals, no assists, midfield overrun at Chesterfield, at Swindon, immediate improvement after he and Reed were dropped...no, he shouldn't be anywhere near the first XI at this point.
Click to expand...

Are players being given assists when they're fouled for penalties? Scougall won the penalty at Colchester.

 
He changed the game at Colchester when he came on & IMO was our hardest working midfielder at Chesterfield.

People are too quick to write players off after a few low key performances, alright Scougs hasn't replicated the form he showed when he first arrived but he came into a side that was just beginning to have an upturn in form & growing in confidence, this season we haven't played a settled 11 which is frustrating as it doesn't give players a chance to gel & understand each others game.

As well as this we've not been playing the way we played last season whereby we soaked up pressure & broke on the counter which suited Scougall's game down to a tee.

At Livingston (and no disrespect to Livingston) but I wonder how hard a pre-season he was put through as to me during the pre-season matches & the opening spell of this season he's looked shattered & it was no surprise to me when he was out for a few weeks with injury. We've got to remember he's only young & still developing & learning. However that hard work he's undertook in pre-season will stand him in good stead for the latter stages of this season & I can see him getting stronger as the season goes on.

I've no doubt Scougs will come good, maybe using him as an impact player for a few weeks will do him good
 
Scoogs' touch on Saturday was shocking. I doubt he would have converted one of those chances the way he was playing. I may be wrong but i think we have only won one of the six games he has started, losing four and drawing one (which we were also losing when he was subbed).
 
IOM Blade said:
Scoogs' touch on Saturday was shocking. I doubt he would have converted one of those chances the way he was playing. I may be wrong but i think we have only won one of the six games he has started, losing four and drawing one (which we were also losing when he was subbed).
Click to expand...

That's correct. The only game we've won that he started was the Gillingham game.

His other starts were saturday and our 4 defeats...
 
Stats are for nerds. Remember Bale at Spurs ,wasn't it his first 15 appearances didn't register a win ? Should they have got rid of him ?
 

I'm not sure that playing Scoogs and Baxter together helps, personally I'd give him a try instead of Baxter while he's getting properly over his injury.
 
sitwell said:
Stats are for nerds. Remember Bale at Spurs ,wasn't it his first 15 appearances didn't register a win ? Should they have got rid of him ?
Click to expand...

Depends how he was playing. If he was playing like Scougall, I'd have dropped him.

Sitwell,in my experience you know what you're talking about when you analyse performances, so if you really do think that Scougall is worth a starting place at the moment, I'm surprised.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
You have to wonder if Scougall is being vocal enough in demanding the ball when he's in good shooting positions?

According to the official site, he's had no goals, no assists and only one shot on goal in seven appearances. Not a big enough contribution from an attacking midfielder.

He doesn't deserve to start at the moment while the likes of JCR, Davies and McNulty are on the bench.
Click to expand...
nobodies writing scoogs off but he is not influenzing games at present clough has to decide whether to stick by him or take him out for a while to regain form. we have a big squad and surely someone else needs to be draughted in to make him realise
that his place is not automatic and he needs to get his finger out.On the other hand cloughy may feel it is best for him to continue and find his form in the team ,this does work sometimes i likes scoogs so i hope cloughy makes the right decision
for the team.
 
Scougs and McNuts will prove to be a very good partnership for us - they gelled at Livingston and they will gel here too.
Need to get more game time for both.
McNuts also needs a strike partner - I am not convinced we have any other forward at the Lane apart from McNuts - the rest don't cut it for me and Baxter (repeat this on many occasions) is not a striker.
 
Saying that he doesnt' deserve a place in the team on current form isn't "writing him off" or wanting to "get rid of him".
I like Scougall but other players should be selected ahead of him at the moment.

You don't need stats to tell you that Baxter, McNulty, JCR and Davies have all contributed far more to the team this season.
The stats do however confirm what we've seen with our own eyes.
Who do those of you picking Scougall want to leave out instead?
 
Revolution said:
Depends how he was playing. If he was playing like Scougall, I'd have dropped him.

Sitwell,in my experience you know what you're talking about when you analyse performances, so if you really do think that Scougall is worth a starting place at the moment, I'm surprised.
Click to expand...
No I don't ,Ive put on another thread the team I would pick ,but I prefer 4-4-2 ,I hate all these stupid formations ,1 goalie (Howard) 4 defenders (Alcock-Collins-Magahey-Harris)2 midfielders(doyle-Wallace) 2 wingers (JCR - Flynn) and 2 forwards (Mcnulty-Higdon#Murphy while hes out) ,then You've got Baxter/Scougall as impact players and the others to fill in for injuries.
 
IOM Blade said:
Scoogs' touch on Saturday was shocking. I doubt he would have converted one of those chances the way he was playing. I may be wrong but i think we have only won one of the six games he has started, losing four and drawing one (which we were also losing when he was subbed).
Click to expand...

I think its also worth mentioning that he is very lightweight and is often shoved (literally ) off the ball. Regrettably, the shit standard of refereeing at this level means that even when he's fouled, usually we don't get a free kick.
UTB & FTP
 
I reckon Scoogs needs a few cameo appearances - just like Colchester time for a rest.

Not convinced Baxter and Scoogs can play in the same team.

Would start Mcnulty up top, Baxter in the hole. Not convinced Baxter up top works as he doesn't really have any pace.

UTB
 
Fulwood Blade said:
I reckon Scoogs needs a few cameo appearances - just like Colchester time for a rest.

Not convinced Baxter and Scoogs can play in the same team.

Would start Mcnulty up top, Baxter in the hole. Not convinced Baxter up top works as he doesn't really have any pace.

UTB
Click to expand...

Agree mate ...... if Baxter had any pace he would be in the premiership now and therefore he's never going to be a striker imho, hes an attacking midfield player. I don't think we can play Baxter / Reed / Scougal in the same side. One from three for me as we look too lightweight already.
UTB & FTP
 
Bergen Blade, that first example I think it's unfair to expect Flynn to cut that back to Scougall given the angle and the pace Flynn was running at. That's how I saw it in real time anyway.
 
Bergen Blade said:
IF his teammates had picked out Scougall in three of those situations and he'd smashed in a hat trick...
Click to expand...

You could have said that about Basham in his first few appearances too ;)
 

Revolution said:
After the chance he missed against Bristol City, the assumption that Scougall would score even one goal seems potentially flawed.

No goals, no assists, midfield overrun at Chesterfield, at Swindon, immediate improvement after he and Reed were dropped...no, he shouldn't be anywhere near the first XI at this point.
Click to expand...
Brutal but true
 
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