Sack Wilder

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Bergen Blade said:
I think Wilder is a bit ambitious about how he wants us to play. He's said before he wants us to go after teams. When he came here he reduced the size of the pitch to help us chase more effectively, giving them less space to hide, less space on the ball. If you're going to press high, the rest of the team has to follow, or else we'll be stretched. Having seen us struggle to get up the pitch under Heckingbottom I think he's also been determined to make us more of a threat, so he's been keen to get more attack-minded players included in the line ups.

As the slide started in the second PL season under him Wilder didn't change much. We became stuck in the 5-3-2 and looked awful. Heckingbottom came in, changed to a 5-2-3, which improved our pressing and we actually improved.

This was sort of what he tried yesterday. We didn't want Villa to come to our place and pass it about! We are Sheffield United, we're aggressive and strong and we decide how things are done at BL! But after the first few minutes, Villa managed to calm down their build up play and started playing through our press. So here we are, pressing high. Our forward three ready to press their defenders, our 2 man midfield of Souza and Brooks are on their central midfielders:

View attachment 178601


But it's not enough to prevent a forward pass. Their defender chips it up to the roaming McGinn who has loads of space:
View attachment 178602

When teams get past your midfield this easily the defence are in trouble. They have to decide who breaks out to challenge McGinn, and the rest have to decide if they're going to stay high (as the high press requires and as was probably the planned tactic), or drop deeper to prevent space in behind.

I think Wilder hoped we'd manage to get this right. And he hoped a more mobile defence (JR dropped) would help us cope with Villa's pace if they did manage to play through us. But this happened too many times and the defence just couldn't cope in that 20 minute spell of the first half.

I felt the extra defender wasn't doing much for us, and an extra body in midfield would have been more useful. When excellent passers get the time and space to play through balls to fast forwards it is very difficult for defenders.
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Good analysis. With both wing backs pushed forward and both Souza and Brooks pushing up at the same time is leaving players in space in front of our 3 CBs. Then either Trusty or Holdgate are moving out to that space and getting caught in no man's land when a pass is played. Watkins goes for a run and Anel is scrambling. 3 CBs and wing backs does not work for us any more. Attacking wise we are predictable just going down the sides and when we lose the ball we are too open to get back in shape quickly.

Enda and Baldock weren't the best wing backs going forward but they were much better defensively. Bogle is a poor defender with poor positional sense. Going forward he is too tippy tappy. RND is limited but the best we have in that position.

Anel Holgate and Trusty were continually dragged about. No organisation and no communication. My biggest fear was that any manager brought in to replace Hecky would struggle for the rest of the season which could lead to players being disillusioned which makes sorting things out harder.
 

crooked bladesman said:
Nothing is going to happen now to the end of the season pal....but let's look at rebuilding (as we will need to) with a new manager and team for next year. Don't make the same mistakes as in the past. It not too much to expect a simple few passes and marking players as part of any professional skill set is it? and that's got sod all to do with the owner.
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Oh yes I agree with that pal, I have never understood our fascination with going back to former players or managers, it is short sighted thinking at best, & is a waste of time. They are never better than the first time either, I just don't see the point.

I think PA would have appointed Wilder for next season anyway if Hecky had remained in charge for the full season, it is just another example of our lack of ambition as a club.

I would accept a bit of a struggle for a couple of seasons if we had a complete root & branch (sorry) change of manager, coaches & staff, as well as most of the players & some joined up thinking & a plan of where we want to be, but PA has no ambition to do that, or the money, so we are probably stuck in this total miasma that envelopes the club.
 
Speedracer said:
Oh yes I agree with that pal, I have never understood our fascination with going back to former players or managers, it is short sighted thinking at best, & is a waste of time. They are never better than the first time either, I just don't see the point.

I think PA would have appointed Wilder for next season anyway if Hecky had remained in charge for the full season, it is just another example of our lack of ambition as a club.

I would accept a bit of a struggle for a couple of seasons if we had a complete root & branch (sorry) change of manager, coaches & staff, as well as most of the players & some joined up thinking & a plan of where we want to be, but PA has no ambition to do that, or the money, so we are probably stuck in this total miasma that envelopes the
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Speedracer said:
Oh yes I agree with that pal, I have never understood our fascination with going back to former players or managers, it is short sighted thinking at best, & is a waste of time. They are never better than the first time either, I just don't see the point.

I think PA would have appointed Wilder for next season anyway if Hecky had remained in charge for the full season, it is just another example of our lack of ambition as a club.

I would accept a bit of a struggle for a couple of seasons if we had a complete root & branch (sorry) change of manager, coaches & staff, as well as most of the players & some joined up thinking & a plan of where we want to be, but PA has no ambition to do that, or the money, so we are probably stuck in this total miasma that envelopes the club.
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Exactly, I said this after the last relegation, we should rebuild for the next two years and hopefully come back stronger & better equipped. All these "get Wilder back"& "don't ditch the old guard" need to understand those days were great, but they are history and so is Wilder unfortunately, 31 wins from last 40 premiership games. We need to move on instead of keeping things in house, new broom etc, start thinking like a top team, instead of this badge thumping we're the underdog mind set, get shut of Wilder, he looks like a naughty boy with his tail between his legs who's done wrong an wants fans to love him again, no chants of "He's one of our own" or Chissy Wilder & Alan Knill " anymore, the fans aren't happy at the way he left and need to be won over again. The prince needs to get on the phone to, (sorry to upset some,,) Steve Cooper and ,if he came let him rebuild for the future, hope things turn for the better, but I'm dreading next year of the current manager is still here. Sorry but just upset after yesterday 😏
 
First time since his return I've been fucked off with Wilder. Got it wrong to start with, and there's no reason he should have left it till half time to make changes

We should have made 2 subs and moved to a back 4 within 30 mins

I hope this isn't the game it turns sour for him

All he needed to do to enter pre season in a decent state was to 1) avoid Derby's record and 2) avoid humiliations

Well he's had a humiliation now. If there are any more he's in trouble. This never once happened in his first spell. Yet this has happened straight after a transfer window where he's had a (limited) opportunity to reshape the team

I suggest he prioritises avoiding humiliation in certain games in a way he clearly didn't yesterday. Maybe the Villa Park game gave him a misplaced confidence. But that line up was asking for it
 
Rufus Smalls said:
Yes, but they're an "honest bunch of players"

I now hate that pathetic statement to cover a lack of skill of the players, especially at PL level.

We really really are a sad football club at the moment, bar the supporters who live and breathe the Club whatever league we find ourselves.

UTB.
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The other week,Wilder was saying it was important to re establish the bond between fans and club,and he thought it had,not now it hasn't.
 
A really poor team selection from the start, and too slow to change things. But then again, it’s not like we are stacked with superstar talent is it. Complete squad revamp is a must for next season in the Championship.
 
Nick Jansky said:
I would love us to part company with CW as soon as relegation is confirmed, appoint Lester as caretaker until the end of the season and be starting the search now for a bright young manager from the EFL or a rising star from Europe. New ideas & a fundamental shift away from Bladeyness is needed.

And no, not Billy Sharp, he is completely unqualified to be our manager. It’s time to change the club’s DNA.
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What about Nick Montgomery ?
 
Pintor75 said:
Exactly, I said this after the last relegation, we should rebuild for the next two years and hopefully come back stronger & better equipped. All these "get Wilder back"& "don't ditch the old guard" need to understand those days were great, but they are history and so is Wilder unfortunately, 31 wins from last 40 premiership games. We need to move on instead of keeping things in house, new broom etc, start thinking like a top team, instead of this badge thumping we're the underdog mind set, get shut of Wilder, he looks like a naughty boy with his tail between his legs who's done wrong an wants fans to love him again, no chants of "He's one of our own" or Chissy Wilder & Alan Knill " anymore, the fans aren't happy at the way he left and need to be won over again. The prince needs to get on the phone to, (sorry to upset some,,) Steve Cooper and ,if he came let him rebuild for the future, hope things turn for the better, but I'm dreading next year of the current manager is still here. Sorry but just upset after yesterday 😏
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Okay but which other clubs can you name with financial backing similar to ours, who have been able to step up and compete in the premier league?
Norwich better funding than us, did similar for a while, got up, were shite in PL, come down and compete again for promotion.
West Brom same story.
Leeds better funded, similar story.
Burnley, better funded, doing marginally better than us despite having had several years in PL as a base.
Forest & Fulham way better funded just staying above the shite level.
Bournemouth & Brighton, way better funded currently doing well.
Most clubs on Championship are better funded and would love to have 3 of last 5 seasons in PL but would face the same issues we do if they got promoted.
Only Luton looks to be doing ok for now but I doubt it's sustainable over 2 seasons.
An occasional trip to the PL to "Pass Go like in Monopoly" and collect the money, is the only way we survive and stay at Championship level without a rich owner, and it seems we ain't ever going to attract the investment needed to sustain PL status.
 
You need at least £250m to stay in the premier league. we need people who can sustain that and keep doing that every season. It seems no one is interested in buying our club. I wish I could but I can't.
 
Whether we have a break clause or not,
we need to proactively be in discussions with managers and their agents already.

Be proactive rather than reactive… worst case, we just tell them we’ve decided to stick with Wilder in the end.
 
LBA_Blade said:
If you were giving him the boot who realistically would come in to fill that role. You have ex Luton, Southampton and others Nathan Jones, never done it in the Premier League but did well with Luton on a small budget in keeping them in the division and getting them in the play offs. Although red flag would be his time with Stoke. Looking around the leagues it’s difficult to know who would want it. The difference with this seasons big losses is that the teams have taken their chances, in the Championship we might have only lost 1 or 2-0 or even got a scrappy point out it but the gap from top half of Premier League to top half championship is just too big now
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Gone to Charlton, thank god!
 
Mag-83 said:
We should stick with Wilder and have a total and complete clear out of these cowardly, couldn’t care less shitbags that play for us. Luckily, most of these are out of contract in the summer so the rebuild can begin.
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Why on earth would we do that? The manager decides the shape, tactics and personnel - he is clearly clueless on all those fronts! Look at his record since the shitshow season before he left last time.
 

Hamandcheese said:
First time since his return I've been fucked off with Wilder. Got it wrong to start with, and there's no reason he should have left it till half time to make changes

We should have made 2 subs and moved to a back 4 within 30 mins

I hope this isn't the game it turns sour for him

All he needed to do to enter pre season in a decent state was to 1) avoid Derby's record and 2) avoid humiliations

Well he's had a humiliation now. If there are any more he's in trouble. This never once happened in his first spell. Yet this has happened straight after a transfer window where he's had a (limited) opportunity to reshape the team

I suggest he prioritises avoiding humiliation in certain games in a way he clearly didn't yesterday. Maybe the Villa Park game gave him a misplaced confidence. But that line up was asking for it
Click to expand...
Against a pretty rampant Villa team and missing a few key defenders like Egan, we lined up with just two in midfield effectively. Let that sink in!
 
itsinyerblood said:
Blame surely rests with PA, he's the one who appointed Wilder.
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Both set up to fail really ,Hecki failing to bring in experience at top level in favour of nieve inexperienced players with the limited funds he had.
Wilder with even less of a budget also falls to bring in real experience. We are running round like headless chickens! A lot to do to make us a force in the championship next season.
 
I'm reading a great deal on here about our pressing - we were (apparently) pressing high and allowing Villa to play over the top of our midfield.

On Saturday I didn't see us press at all. It was half hearted. We had the ball and Villa were onto us straight away. Villa had the ball and we didn't engage at all.

We made it so easy for them. First half Brooks and Souza looked totally lost.
 
bornablade said:
I'm reading a great deal on here about our pressing - we were (apparently) pressing high and allowing Villa to play over the top of our midfield.

On Saturday I didn't see us press at all. It was half hearted. We had the ball and Villa were onto us straight away. Villa had the ball and we didn't engage at all.

We made it so easy for them. First half Brooks and Souza looked totally lost.
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There was no press
You have to press as a unit that energy needs to be from front to back and back to front if not it doesn’t work
 
bornablade said:
I'm reading a great deal on here about our pressing - we were (apparently) pressing high and allowing Villa to play over the top of our midfield.

On Saturday I didn't see us press at all. It was half hearted. We had the ball and Villa were onto us straight away. Villa had the ball and we didn't engage at all.

We made it so easy for them. First half Brooks and Souza looked totally lost.
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They were crually exposed ! Chasing shadows as Villa either past round them or ran through the ...middle
exposing our backline punishing us with some typical premiership finishing which we can only dream of.
Wilder will now be formulating his squad for a crack at the championship next season.
Realistically he would have started that when he came back.
Some big calls to be made.
 
Wilder should go now, get cooper in and give him time to look at squad till end of season, then 2yrs to rebuild the whole squad. End this embarrassing farce now, he had no plan b when we went down and nothing now!
 
Champagneblade said:
Against a pretty rampant Villa team and missing a few key defenders like Egan, we lined up with just two in midfield effectively. Let that sink in!
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Two? One of those was Brooks who's an attacking midfielder with less than 10 first team starts.

Just as Hecky picking Osborn, Fleck, Norwood for that first game was 'gross misconduct', Wilder picking that midfield is an even more egregious act of negligence.

How we can trust anyone who picks that with anything other than crayons, let alone a rebuild is beyond me...
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Two? One of those was Brooks who's an attacking midfielder with less than 10 first team starts.

Just as Hecky picking Osborn, Fleck, Norwood for that first game was 'gross misconduct', Wilder picking that midfield is an even more egregious act of negligence.

How we can trust anyone who picks that with anything other than crayons, let alone a rebuild is beyond me...
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When you’ve not got the tools you’ve not got the tools, but you are right the absence of mindfulness to make us hard to beat primarily just astounds me.

I’ve mentioned a few times now so sorry to bore, but we reinforced midfield when we went up in 18/19. We lost a no 10 as replaced with a midfield all-rounder.

This time we should have done the same. Ndiaye leaving could have been a blessing and I know that sounds daft. But instead of chasing for a name forward and getting a 9 not a 10, we could and in my view should, have taken the loss of Ndiaye on the chin, given McAtee that role and instead gone one more in midfield. With 3-5-1-1 we might just have had the bodies back to protect the defence.

As it is we initially invested in January to initially consider 4-3-3 with Brereton-Diaz and McAtee wide yet we can’t somehow commit to allowing Archer to be the one down the middle.

But then in taking in Holgate it feels like we’ve now committed back to either 3-4-3 leaving the central two overmatched or 3-5-2 but then not getting the best out of Brereton-Diaz and potentially missing out on using both McAtee and Archer.

If we play 5 at the back now, it’s almost impossible to getting our three better players in the team, without woefully exposing the midfield.

I’m just lost on the plan now, unless Holgate is going to be back up or replacement for Anel or Bogle at some point?
 
Wilders tactics for the match at Luton, he’s told the players to “come out fighting”.
For me this sums up his total lack of tactical awareness. It’s the sort of tactic a non league side would use in the cup.
The sooner he goes the better.
 
Edinblade said:
Wilders tactics for the match at Luton, he’s told the players to “come out fighting”.
For me this sums up his total lack of tactical awareness. It’s the sort of tactic a non league side would use in the cup.
The sooner he goes the better.
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We could use some diversionary tactics to mask our lack of confidence and general ineptitude so 'coming out farting' might not be a bad idea after all.
 

I can see Wilder getting the chop after the first 10 games of next season,if the current trend continues.
 
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