Quick Question RE: The Academy

[Worksop_Blade]

Just wondering if anyone goes up to watch the academy sides play during the season and could answer a few of questions for me:

1. What style of football is being played/taught to the youngsters up there? Is it short pass and move stuff, fast Warnock style or Front to Back ASAP Blackwell football?

2. Are all the age groups singing from the same hymn sheet with regards playing style?

3. I read an interesting quote from a coach at a grass roots club who said one of the Old Firm (I think) rang up to enquire about a few players, the first question this scout asked was about the lads' height, if they were under 6ft he wasn't interested. Are the lads up at the academy all 6ft plus or have United realised that height in modern football isn't the be all and end all?

Cheers in advance to anyone who can help this interested Blade.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Just wondering if anyone goes up to watch the academy sides play during the season and could answer a few of questions for me:

1. What style of football is being played/taught to the youngsters up there? Is it short pass and move stuff, fast Warnock style or Front to Back ASAP Blackwell football?

2. Are all the age groups singing from the same hymn sheet with regards playing style?

3. I read an interesting quote from a coach at a grass roots club who said one of the Old Firm (I think) rang up to enquire about a few players, the first question this scout asked was about the lads' height, if they were under 6ft he wasn't interested. Are the lads up at the academy all 6ft plus or have United realised that height in modern football isn't the be all and end all?

Cheers in advance to anyone who can help this interested Blade.

1 I've only seen them a few times, but they do try to play a passing game. Here's a report I wrote about them last season: http://scandinavianblades.webs.com/apps/blog/show/13533777-a-look-at-the-future-united-stars

2 Not seen the younger teams. I was a bit surprised to see the U18 play 3-5-2, but it may be good for them to try different things.

3 Everton had bigger and more physical players than our U18s, and it was the same when I saw the U18s play WBA two years ago (we lost 3 or 4-0). Salt, Ironside and Long were well above average height, but none of the others were particularly tall and a couple looked around 5'6.

 

[UnitedBlade]

I've seen the U18s a few times and I can confirm it is very much "pass, pass, pass". At times they play some delightful stuff.

I haven't seen the younger sides but they will definitely be playing in the same mould - Pembo will insist on this.

On height, there don't seem to be that many over 6 foot. Contrast that with the Pigs side when we played them - giants that hoofed it as you would expect from Megson at the time.

I wouldn't for a minute worry about height despite this obsession with some clubs profiling 6 foot plus. It's largely nonsense in my opinion unless you are talking about keepers (George Long is huge by the way 6'4"), centre back or target man centre forward.

I know Barcelona are desperate for Messi and Iniesta to grow a few inches but we are producing some good players who can pass the ball. I hope some make it into the first team next year. Whitehouse stands a chance and I really like Callum McFadzean.

I believe Terry Kennedy is just under 6 foot and I wonder whether that might affect his progress at centre back. However I wouldn't have any qualms starting him at right back if needed.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I think this obsession with pass, pass, pass is in danger of being taken too far. I hope the Academy adopt a positive, attacking style - yes, the ability to pass to a team mate but just as important are the ability to cross a good ball, shooting, heading & tackling skills and some pace & power. Our dire showing at Wembley was less to do with poor passing (although it wasn't great) and more to do with the total absence of pace, power & attacking intent.

 

[UnitedBlade]

I think this obsession with pass, pass, pass is in danger of being taken too far. I hope the Academy adopt a positive, attacking style - yes, the ability to pass to a team mate but just as important are the ability to cross a good ball, shooting, heading & tackling skills and some pace & power. Our dire showing at Wembley was less to do with poor passing (although it wasn't great) and more to do with the total absence of pace, power & attacking intent.

I don't disagree that you need good crossing and power and pace down the flanks and up front. For me there has to be an "end product" and the passing has to be done with some momentum and purpose. What they don't do is lamp it upfield, missing out midfield and play percentages on winning the ball - that isn't going to get us anywhere.

The case in point again would be Callum McFadzean, he can hit a ball and when I've seen him he's always looking to do something positive. It's almost impossible to work out if he has the pace for first team football but if Quinn goes I wouldn't mind him getting his chance.

Flynn definitely isn't the answer, he hasn't got enough pace or trickery to beat a man and his crossing just isn't up to standard. Matty Phillips coming back would be great but that just isn't going to happen.

 

[Silent Blade]

I think this obsession with pass, pass, pass is in danger of being taken too far.

I agree some junior coaches ignore players who produce "Killer balls" regularly. Glenn Hoddle and TC werent quick but they had vision to play good passes long and short. There are coaches that teaches young players that I know who would have told TC and Hoddle off for "hoofing" the ball. Will they have noticed that even a great pass master like Pirlo does play long balls to the strikers like he did to Balotelli during the Euros?

 

[Bergen Blade]

I agree some junior coaches ignore players who produce "Killer balls" regularly. Glenn Hoddle and TC werent quick but they had vision to play good passes long and short. There are coaches that teaches young players that I know who would have told TC and Hoddle off for "hoofing" the ball. Will they have noticed that even a great pass master like Pirlo does play long balls to the strikers like he did to Balotelli during the Euros?

Some people think it's just about keeping good possession and passing it around. But have a look at the goals scored by Spain in the Euro final and you'll see pace, great off the ball movement running in behind Italy's defence and four precise threaded through balls.

Those killer balls involve risk taking. If it was "all about keeping good possession" the player on the ball may just as well have rolled it sideways to his full back - the low risk option. Spain are superb at keeping the ball within the team, but they are also good at identifying the split second where they have the chance to punish the opposition.

 

[Balham]

One thing that's not been mentioned in this thread too much (as far as I can see) is that passing has to be combined with movement. Watch Spain or Barcelona - the blueprints for modern football - and you'll see that none of their players stand still after a pass has been made. That is a major failing of our first team and sides who do move off the ball cause us all kinds of problems.

 

[Zanzibar]

One thing that's not been mentioned in this thread too much (as far as I can see) is that passing has to be combined with movement. Watch Spain or Barcelona - the blueprints for modern football - and you'll see that none of their players stand still after a pass has been made. That is a major failing of our first team and sides who do move off the ball cause us all kinds of problems.

That is key as you say.
The senior team do a lot of passing in straight lines in defence and with virtually no movement at all.
There are pockets of genuine movement up front but a lot of that involved Evans so that's finished with but I believe and hope that Wilson will look for that again.

 

[Kenilworth]

Spot on Bergs, Balhs and Zanz - movement is the key. I commented to Ken Jnr during the early stages of the Euros the contrast between England's static team dynamics and Germany's fluidity. When England had the ball there were hardly any options, save the obvious nearby team mate showing a little, which makes it easier for the defending team to counteract their play. By contrast when Germany were playing there was a fluidity to their play where the groups of players in midfield, attack or defense were moving to find space so they could receive a pass - not just the first pass but the developing play after that initial pass. The other thing you notice is that England pass to feet almost all the time - whereas Germany play the ball into where the receiving player is running/moving to - that in itself helps the transition from defense to attack and speeds up the movement from one end of the pitch to the other. SUFC normally play the static "to feet" way even though our passing style has improved. This is a function of the low level of movement from those without the ball. Consequently, the player with the ball has far fewer options when it's time to release.

 

[super_pig]

amen.. it isn't about the passing, it is about the movement.. better creative movement means simpler passes to make. not that monty could make them anyway..

 

[Silent Blade]

Some people think it's just about keeping good possession and passing it around. But have a look at the goals scored by Spain in the Euro final and you'll see pace, great off the ball movement running in behind Italy's defence and four precise threaded through balls.

Those killer balls involve risk taking. If it was "all about keeping good possession" the player on the ball may just as well have rolled it sideways to his full back - the low risk option. Spain are superb at keeping the ball within the team, but they are also good at identifying the split second where they have the chance to punish the opposition.

If Spain were losing late in a match then they have to play more killer balls rather than pass, pass, pass in their own half. I read some were debating whether Spain are better or as good as the 1970 Brazil side were. I would say that defensively, Spain are better but the 1970 Brazil side were more exciting to watch as they attacked more. If every club copied Spain's way then there would be a lot of 0-0 draws. After Brazil won the World Cup in 1970 a lot of teams tried to play their way and that is why there were a lot of exciting games in the early 1970s

 

[diplomat]

Has Hoddle still got his academy for academy cast offs? I'd be interested to see if he's had any late developers get picked up.

 

[raul]

I think one went to Lincoln and then one to Sevilla but that seems to be that.

 

[grafikhaus]

I agree some junior coaches ignore players who produce "Killer balls" regularly. Glenn Hoddle and TC werent quick but they had vision to play good passes long and short. There are coaches that teaches young players that I know who would have told TC and Hoddle off for "hoofing" the ball. Will they have noticed that even a great pass master like Pirlo does play long balls to the strikers like he did to Balotelli during the Euros?

Good point, Silent and one that seems to be overlooked in our current style of play. Yes, we now take about 20 touches to get near the danger zone, but that killer ball is simply not there.

Entirely understandable, given the dearth of quality in our team but is DW's way really the right option to get us out of the Third?