Potentially a good result long-term?

[blader]

As disappointing as an opening day defeat is, it was hardly a great surprise to many of us who realised the deficiencies in the squad before kick off. However, could that defeat potentially give the board a kick up the arse to actually go out and spend some money on genuine quality?

Had we scraped a draw yesterday it may have been seen as a decent result and we can move on from there. Hopefully alarm bells have been sent into the board room now who realise Clough hasn't been given the financial support required to get out of the division.

Secondly, It could be a good result in terms of deflated some deluded expectations. A poll was done on here not so long ago as to where our final league standing would be, and a considerable number of voters selected automatic promotion. Hopefully, this result might just make some fans reassess their expectations. Clough should not come under any pressure if we fail to go up. Top 6 would be a good achievement for the squad we currently have. Many have patronised the other contenders in think 'oh it's only Bristol city' 'oh it's only Peterborough' or whatever, but the fact is they have better players than we do. Unfortunately, leagues aren't won on attendances as reputation. We need some quality in quickly, or we could be destined to remain in this division for a very long time.

 

[Darthblade]

As disappointing as an opening day defeat is, it was hardly a great surprise to many of us who realised the deficiencies in the squad before kick off. However, could that defeat potentially give the board a kick up the arse to actually go out and spend some money on genuine quality?

Had we scraped a draw yesterday it may have been seen as a decent result and we can move on from there. Hopefully alarm bells have been sent into the board room now who realise Clough hasn't been given the financial support required to get out of the division.

Secondly, It could be a good result in terms of deflated some deluded expectations. A poll was done on here not so long ago as to where our final league standing would be, and a considerable number of voters selected automatic promotion. Hopefully, this result might just make some fans reassess their expectations. Clough should not come under any pressure if we fail to go up. Top 6 would be a good achievement for the squad we currently have. Many have patronised the other contenders in think 'oh it's only Bristol city' 'oh it's only Peterborough' or whatever, but the fact is they have better players than we do. Unfortunately, leagues aren't won on attendances as reputation. We need some quality in quickly, or we could be destined to remain in this division for a very long time.

I think we DO have players as good as any in the Division, however, some of them are what I call "niche" players, in that they are quite tricky to accommodate effectively in the team.
Baxter and Scougal come into this category I think............
We also still have the problem of too many "small" players for this very physical Division and we are often muscled off the ball ( fairly or not ) but the poor quality of referees at this level do not give fouls for that !!! I'm certainly not advocating that we become like the piggy scum and fill the side with 6ft 4 inch monsters and bang 200 long balls into the opponents box in the hope that we can create havoc but we do need to be mindful of being "bullied" out of games as we were often last season.
UTB & FTP

 

[sheffielder]

As disappointing as an opening day defeat is, it was hardly a great surprise to many of us who realised the deficiencies in the squad before kick off. However, could that defeat potentially give the board a kick up the arse to actually go out and spend some money on genuine quality?

Had we scraped a draw yesterday it may have been seen as a decent result and we can move on from there. Hopefully alarm bells have been sent into the board room now who realise Clough hasn't been given the financial support required to get out of the division.

Secondly, It could be a good result in terms of deflated some deluded expectations. A poll was done on here not so long ago as to where our final league standing would be, and a considerable number of voters selected automatic promotion. Hopefully, this result might just make some fans reassess their expectations. Clough should not come under any pressure if we fail to go up. Top 6 would be a good achievement for the squad we currently have. Many have patronised the other contenders in think 'oh it's only Bristol city' 'oh it's only Peterborough' or whatever, but the fact is they have better players than we do. Unfortunately, leagues aren't won on attendances as reputation. We need some quality in quickly, or we could be destined to remain in this division for a very long time.

Why are you giving Nigel a free pass? He signed 10/11 players with half of them on fees. The question has always been, that after last season and adding the youngsters Reed, Connor D, Khan and Diego etc is whether we needed to.

Looking at yesterday, only Higdon looks like a starter. Is that enough? Hopefully Wallace will sort out his injury problems because he looks a must now.

 

[blader]

Why are you giving Nigel a free pass? He signed 10/11 players with half of them on fees. The question has always been, that after last season and adding the youngsters Reed, Connor D, Khan and Diego etc is whether we needed to.

Looking at yesterday, only Higdon looks like a starter. Is that enough? Hopefully Wallace will sort out his injury problems because he looks a must now.

Because money = success. We have spent very little compared to a couple of other teams, he's had 3 of last seasons best players taken from him and our wage bill won't be close to some other sides in this division. There is a very strong positive correlation between spending and success, we haven't spent ergo we should not succeed barring a miracle.

 

[Hodgyman]

It might be good for us in even more ways than reminding the board that we need quality in our signings not just quantity, namely:

Other teams will have been able to see our first game and will not have learned much to worry them or make incorrect judgements on how to play against us, unlike last year's opening match. What they will have seen is an unusual line-up playing under par which we hope will not be repeated.

Secondly, the bookmakers may improve their odds so we might profit better from our "flutter" on promotion

 

[alcoblade]

Clough should not come under any pressure if we fail to go up.

I tend to agree, but should it come to light (as has been suggested) that he's been given every bit of backing that he's requested, then I'd reserve judgment. It's obvious we've done it on the "relative" cheap, and before a ball was kicked nobody was thinking the signings were of the obvious quality needed to guarantee automatic. That's only fair enough if we're working with all we have.

UTB

 

[judge]

No

 

[sheffielder]

Because money = success. We have spent very little compared to a couple of other teams, he's had 3 of last seasons best players taken from him and our wage bill won't be close to some other sides in this division. There is a very strong positive correlation between spending and success, we haven't spent ergo we should not succeed barring a miracle.

I think if he had spent the money a bit more wisely than he has, then it would look a bit different. If you came go back to the end of the season and looked at our needs. RB, CM and Striker and we had signed only :-

Alcock, Mcgahey, Wallace, Coady and Higdon

You would say this was quality over quantity. I am confident we will come through this, but did we really need to start over again?

 

[Bookers Mullet]

Other than being slow to react second half of the FA cup semi, yesterday was the first time i think Nigels manager skills let the side down.

a) McGahey - Has all the attributes to make a first class Centre half, however he lacks the nous that only experience can bring, if we are going to play him he needs an old head beside him, playing a lad who's spent the majority of the last few season at fullback next to him is only going to expose his weaknesses

b) Davies - hands up I'm not his biggest fan, but no way is he a fullback, and I believe he was only picked there to get him in the team, he's not a good enough player to warrant that treatment, pick him in his position (wide midfield) or not at all

c) Midfield cover - non existent, for all the criticism of Doyle he does help the back four, Basham yesterday was chasing the ball too much and didn't allow the midfield to keep any sort of shape, if this was his over exuberance or instructions from the bench I don't know, but it needs to be sorted

d) subs- yes he's your captain, yes he's the marquee signing but bloody hell Higdon was blowing out of his arse after 65 mins, get him off! Doesn't show a great deal of confidence in your sub strikers which beggers the question why sign them (or re-sign) in the first place.

Lots to work on there for Nigel, but they are not fatal flaws and there were some sparks of positive stuff in yesterdays match

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

Aye, those 3 points dropped may get the board a nice pay day at Wembley and another season of not having to sign any decent players. If we had won, who knows we have gone on to finish in the top 2. Missed the pay day AND have to spend money on players next season or get battered every week. The board must be rubbing their hands with glee at the result!

 

[Darthblade]

Other than being slow to react second half of the FA cup semi, yesterday was the first time i think Nigels manager skills let the side down.

a) McGahey - Has all the attributes to make a first class Centre half, however he lacks the nous that only experience can bring, if we are going to play him he needs an old head beside him, playing a lad who's spent the majority of the last few season at fullback next to him is only going to expose his weaknesses

b) Davies - hands up I'm not his biggest fan, but no way is he a fullback, and I believe he was only picked there to get him in the team, he's not a good enough player to warrant that treatment, pick him in his position (wide midfield) or not at all

c) Midfield cover - non existent, for all the criticism of Doyle he does help the back four, Basham yesterday was chasing the ball too much and didn't allow the midfield to keep any sort of shape, if this was his over exuberance or instructions from the bench I don't know, but it needs to be sorted

d) subs- yes he's your captain, yes he's the marquee signing but bloody hell Higdon was blowing out of his arse after 65 mins, get him off! Doesn't show a great deal of confidence in your sub strikers which beggers the question why sign them (or re-sign) in the first place.

Lots to work on there for Nigel, but they are not fatal flaws and there were some sparks of positive stuff in yesterdays match

Doyle helps the back four when he's sat in the stand watching !!!
UTB & FTP

 

[Revolution]

Funny - 6 years ago we started with a last minute defeat at Brum, when the main reason we lost was a cowardly defensive selection against a beatable team. That defeat was of course the difference between playoffs and promotion.

Another horrible echo of that season yesterday was Elliott running through a 5 man midfield to score unchallenged...,

 

[Bulletnut]

Yep, every time we drop 3 points it's a fooking barnstormer of a result. Didn't bother with the rest of the post because the simple answer is NO. It's all about points, we've played a game and we don't have any. Come the end of the season, if we're 3 points short, will it have been anything but a bad result then?

 

[blader]

Yep, every time we drop 3 points it's a fooking barnstormer of a result. Didn't bother with the rest of the post because the simple answer is NO. It's all about points, we've played a game and we don't have any. Come the end of the season, if we're 3 points short, will it have been anything but a bad result then?

Then you've completely misunderstood the point if the post. The point is this defeat MIGHT mean inspire the board to improve the quality of the team. Had we drawn, they may not have seen it this way. Unless you think our current squad is definitely good enough for promotion?

 

[Bergen Blade]

c) Midfield cover - non existent, for all the criticism of Doyle he does help the back four, Basham yesterday was chasing the ball too much and didn't allow the midfield to keep any sort of shape, if this was his over exuberance or instructions from the bench I don't know, but it needs to be sorted

It was Reed who played in Doyle's position on Saturday.

 

[super_pig]

i'm normally the biggest moaner on here but i think you'll have to give it five games before you can make that judgement.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I tend to agree, but should it come to light (as has been suggested) that he's been given every bit of backing that he's requested, then I'd reserve judgment. It's obvious we've done it on the "relative" cheap, and before a ball was kicked nobody was thinking the signings were of the obvious quality needed to guarantee automatic. That's only fair enough if we're working with all we have.

UTB

If we fail to go up this season, the pressure on Nigel to do it next year will be immense. A fifth season at this level really isn't acceptable for a club of this stature.

 

[stannyblade]

Doyle helps the back four when he's sat in the stand watching !!!
UTB & FTP

Still a better bet than Basham though. Not Doyle's biggest fan but he has to start the next couple of games IMO

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Then you've completely misunderstood the point if the post. The point is this defeat MIGHT mean inspire the board to improve the quality of the team. Had we drawn, they may not have seen it this way. Unless you think our current squad is definitely good enough for promotion?

The answer to your original question is "no" and I don't think we have sufficient quality to win automatic promotion if that was our best 11 on saturday.

The Board are incredibly unlikely to become St Paul on the road to Damascus on the back of one result - at best they are slow to act and conservative - always have been. "Too early to make snap judgements" etc you can hear them cry and don't forget NC is supposed to have told them what he needs to get us out of this accursed division and been given it (according to what I have read on another thread here). So the Board will stand back and say "Not my fault Guv".

You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and that's what we looked in the second half. Team selection, formation and poor substitutions seem to me to have been as much to blame as anything - too many players out of position, lack of fitness and sharpness - but it also showed a lack of quality and leadership in key areas. I don't think we saw anything like the best out of the players we have already got but I do think the 3 departees from last season were badly missed.

I'm afraid the argument that NC picked the best players from pre-season won't really wash if it produces such a mish mash of players out of position. It makes you wonder if Porter had had a good pre-season would he have started at centre half ? We may have better strength in depth this season but I am afraid the eleven who took the pitch on Saturday did not look as strong or cohesive as the 11 that finished the season. Lot of work to be done I am afraid but I am not expecting the Board to flash the cash - never have, never will. I hope I am wrong. UTB

 

[Darren]

If we fail to go up this season, the pressure on Nigel to do it next year will be immense. A fifth season at this level really isn't acceptable for a club of this stature.

1 season in the 3rd division is not acceptable for a club of United's resources.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Then you've completely misunderstood the point if the post. The point is this defeat MIGHT mean inspire the board to improve the quality of the team. Had we drawn, they may not have seen it this way. Unless you think our current squad is definitely good enough for promotion?

I think the squad is good enough currently, however I think the plan has clearly been to sign one or two more once the season starts and that these will be further supplemented with higher league loan players once its clear they aren't going to play for their parent club. I don't think Saturdays result will influence that at all. Clough pretty much said all the above in his interviews since pre-season started.

 

[Balham]

I think the squad is good enough currently, however I think the plan has clearly been to sign one or two more once the season starts and that these will be further supplemented with higher league loan players once its clear they aren't going to play for their parent club. I don't think Saturdays result will influence that at all. Clough pretty much said all the above in his interviews since pre-season started.

We now have a squad of 23 players with at least one start (+2 out on loan):

1 goalkeeper (Howard) + Long on loan

2 right backs (Alcock, Davies)
4 centre halves (Butler, Collins, McGahey, Kennedy)
1 left back (Harris)

3 wingers (Murphy, Flynn, Campbell-Ryce) + McFadzean on loan
8 central midfielders (Doyle, Basham, Scougall, Wallace, McGinn, Reed, Dimaio, Cuvelier)

4 forwards (Baxter, Higdon, Porter, McNulty)

plus 4 highly rated youth players who have been in the first team squad (Willis, Khan, Calvert-Lewin, Di Girolamo)

We can't carry any more players. Clough has filled the squad: if he signs anyone else then he'll be replacing players who have only just made their debuts for the club. I'm getting more and more concerned about our transfer business at the start of the window. Some of it smacks of panic: how have we ended up with 8 (eight!) central midfielders but only one left back?!

 

[Darthblade]

Still a better bet than Basham though. Not Doyle's biggest fan but he has to start the next couple of games IMO

Only if you want an even more lightweight midfield. If Doyle starts we are carrying another player !!
I personally think that the answer is we cannot play Reed and Scougal in the same team, in this division.
UTB & FTP

 

[Esablade]

Reed and Dimaio count as youth?
Wallace, Kennedy and Cuvelier injured...

I think we've room for a couple more...

 

[SE9 Blade]

I would expect 1-2 of the central midfielders to be moved out (either sold or loaned) and at least 1-2 defenders (full backs) to be brought in before the close of the window.

 

[Rossb123]

We need to bring in at least one full back in asap, we need a settled back four. Chopping and changing your back four is very unhealthy. I highly doubt the defeat will make Clough hit the panic button and splash the cash, I am starting to worry about the lack of exciting signings but hopefully they aren't needed for promotion and the money can be saved for the championship.

We have lost two of our best defenders albeit one was only on loan, Alcock looks to be a good replacement although he isn't as good but we was lucky to have Brayford. McGahey looks like Maguire did when he first came on the scene but he needs a regular partner to form the relationship Collins and Maguire had 12/13 season (when we have a superb clean sheets record).

 

[David Hayward]

I have a certain sympathy for the original poster!

Before I go to far I am a Bristol City supporter and Thought I would share some views with you.

United had the ball cleared off the line no less than three times during the match (Got Bless Aiden Flint who sliced the winner into his own net at AG against you last season) if any one or two of those had gone in and your board would probably be looking a little different, particularly than it was post match!

United had spells in the first half in particular where they dominated but often seemed to make heavy weather of getting around the back of a back three, hence the late introduction of JCR (who looks to have added 30 pounds in muscle since he left us).

The youngster you had playing at the back looked class at 18 (what are the chances you will sell him?) and really I thought your backline played well. They were beaten by a surge from Little for the first goal and a good cross-field ball that took almost your entire team out of the game and the fact Little won the header to Wilbraham without challenge for the second....There was a defender there he just had lead in his shoes...Otherwise there really wasn't that much between the teams.

Both sets of supporters would like to think that they will be up there when the gongs get handed out and my instinct is they will be.

I would just add and I don't mean to stir people up here, but the view of the ref for the Little incident I thought was right. The United player appeared to try and win the ball but some how managed to impale himself on Little's elbow as he lunged in to make a tackle...Lets be honest there was no big confrontation between the players and I would suggest some of your players saw it the same way. Little's arm did not appear to move in an aggressive fashion toward the player, but hey ho, perhaps agreeing to disagree maybe the best conclusion

Good Luck for the rest of your season...except against us of course!

 

[Gavlar]

I have a certain sympathy for the original poster!

Before I go to far I am a Bristol City supporter and Thought I would share some views with you.

United had the ball cleared off the line no less than three times during the match (Got Bless Aiden Flint who sliced the winner into his own net at AG against you last season) if any one or two of those had gone in and your board would probably be looking a little different, particularly than it was post match!

United had spells in the first half in particular where they dominated but often seemed to make heavy weather of getting around the back of a back three, hence the late introduction of JCR (who looks to have added 30 pounds in muscle since he left us).

The youngster you had playing at the back looked class at 18 (what are the chances you will sell him?) and really I thought your backline played well. They were beaten by a surge from Little for the first goal and a good cross-field ball that took almost your entire team out of the game and the fact Little won the header to Wilbraham without challenge for the second....There was a defender there he just had lead in his shoes...Otherwise there really wasn't that much between the teams.

Both sets of supporters would like to think that they will be up there when the gongs get handed out and my instinct is they will be.

I would just add and I don't mean to stir people up here, but the view of the ref for the Little incident I thought was right. The United player appeared to try and win the ball but some how managed to impale himself on Little's elbow as he lunged in to make a tackle...Lets be honest there was no big confrontation between the players and I would suggest some of your players saw it the same way. Little's arm did not appear to move in an aggressive fashion toward the player, but hey ho, perhaps agreeing to disagree maybe the best conclusion

Good Luck for the rest of your season...except against us of course!

Thanks for the thoughts, it's interesting to hear it from an opposition point of view. Im from Bristol and was in the away end right in front of Flints slice into his own net )

Didnt realise we had 3 cleared off the line, I still think we were beaten by the better team, but in actual fact the stats suggest a really close game, very very even. My concern as always is the no of goals we score (or dont score). We were top scorers in the whole of the football league the first season we came down to League 1 this time around but since then have faired really poorly.

Have a good season, just not on valentine's day!

 

[David Hayward]

Thanks for the thoughts, it's interesting to hear it from an opposition point of view. Im from Bristol and was in the away end right in front of Flints slice into his own net )

Didnt realise we had 3 cleared off the line, I still think we were beaten by the better team, but in actual fact the stats suggest a really close game, very very even. My concern as always is the no of goals we score (or dont score). We were top scorers in the whole of the football league the first season we came down to League 1 this time around but since then have faired really poorly.

Have a good season, just not on valentine's day!

The new striker/captain looked ok and I'm sure will get goals. I think the worry would be (and this was the same as us for six years) who else is going to get one, if not Nicky Maynard or Sam Baldock....JET kept us going single handedly for a while last season as well!.... If I were to make a comparison SC has added goals throughout the team. I don know if NC has....simply because I don't know your players!

 

[Bladesman]

As disappointing as an opening day defeat is, it was hardly a great surprise to many of us who realised the deficiencies in the squad before kick off. However, could that defeat potentially give the board a kick up the arse to actually go out and spend some money on genuine quality?

Had we scraped a draw yesterday it may have been seen as a decent result and we can move on from there. Hopefully alarm bells have been sent into the board room now who realise Clough hasn't been given the financial support required to get out of the division.

Secondly, It could be a good result in terms of deflated some deluded expectations. A poll was done on here not so long ago as to where our final league standing would be, and a considerable number of voters selected automatic promotion. Hopefully, this result might just make some fans reassess their expectations. Clough should not come under any pressure if we fail to go up. Top 6 would be a good achievement for the squad we currently have. Many have patronised the other contenders in think 'oh it's only Bristol city' 'oh it's only Peterborough' or whatever, but the fact is they have better players than we do. Unfortunately, leagues aren't won on attendances as reputation. We need some quality in quickly, or we could be destined to remain in this division for a very long time.

Last season we lost to Crewe 3-0 in what was a totally inept display I have been told. We then went on a pretty epic run of form since that match. If it gives the team a kick the backside then it might be a price worth paying.

Winning the first game last season did fuck all that is for sure.