Outs

[Carlton Blade]

Holmes is going nowhere, we won't recoup anywhere near enough cash for him. He might turn out ok yet, you never know.

I'd be surprised if Holmes and Duffy are both here next year. Doubt we have the resources to carry two 30+ players who do the same thing (I'm obviously projecting with Holmes)

 

[Carlton Blade]

100% agreed on Brentford, but you can't put the other games on him.

My concern with Sharp is that after an admittedly poor performance against Bolton just after Christmas, Wilder has not played him as much as he was before...with no real discernible improvement in results.

We've tried Clarke on his own, we've tried Clarke and Donaldson, we've tried Wilson and Clarke, we've tried Brooks behind Clarke, we've tried Duffy behind Donaldson...nothing has worked consistently.

And you know what? Sharp is still joint top scorer since Christmas. It's only four goals - 2 against Leeds and Reading - but they have been valuable ones as we won 5 points as a result of those goals. Clarke has also scored 4 - we've drawn 3 and lost 1 of the games he's scored in.

Wilson? Donaldson? One goal each, in the same game, an important win at Norwich.

Is Sharp a 30 goal striker in this division? Nope. Is he better than all of our other options bar Clarke? I think there's a strong argument that he is. Has he scored this season? 12 in 26 starts and 6 sub appearances is respectable, yes.

Against this background, I am puzzled as to why he hasn't started more this calendar year. The only thing more puzzling is Wilder's bizarre treatment of Ricky Holmes.

Ian Porterfield used to forget occasionally that the best way to deal with Keith Edwards was to play him and let him get on with it. I wonder whether we might have been better adopting that stance with Sharp since Christmas.

I think Clarke's physical gifts have given him the nod over Sharp. We've dropped deeper and it's required somebody to do the donkey work up top to try and hold the ball.

Ironically, I actually think Billy is better at that then Leon - but he's slower and shorter - his levels have definitely dropped but Leon looks like a central striker who can occupy 2 opposition defenders

 

[1889]

Imagine if Clarke played for another team in this league and had managed to score as many goals for them as he has for us. I guarantee you wouldn’t be saying he isn’t good enough. I think the same could even be said for Sharp as well.

Funnily enough, I have found myself imagining he played for another club in this league quite regularly in recent weeks..........

Joking apart, what you say is probably true, because I'd look purely at his goal stats which are decent. But of the 18 goals he's scored, 9 came in an amazing four game run in November. But, that means he's also scored 4 in 33, which isn't !

In the 21 games since November he has scored just 4 goals, which is a more accurate assessment to his overall contribution, to this season. In those games, I have seen him spurn numerous chances, including the worst miss I have ever witnessed, against Nottingham Forest, a game we drew 0-0. That 4 game haul and the 2 goals against Wednesday, earned Leon a lot of good will from the fans, but in reality his goals per game ratio is poor. He is now 33 and in my opinion, is not good enough to lead the line next year, in a promotion winning side.

I think Billy Sharp, is a far better finisher than Clarke, but time is also catching up with him and he does not have the physical presence of Leon, which is why I think Wilder has preferred him this season. But again, without any sentimentality, I don't believe we will get promoted relying on Sharps goal threat either.

The fact is, we need a far more dynamic and energetic pairing up front next year, to have any hope of even the play offs

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Unless we can regularly engage Sharp in an area the width of the penalty area, extending out 10 yrds, with either decent quality crosses or balls down the side, where his required movement is over a couple of yards, there is sadly no point playing him.

 

[Sean Thornton]

And whose fault is that ? The fans ?
Or could it be that if a manager starts trying to clear out players to whom he's just given a contract (and have made no impact or not been selected) , it might begin to look a teensy weensy bit like incompetence ?

The point, once again was about money.

Are you suggesting it's Wilder who's incompetent? For clarification.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Not bringing Sharp on against Wednesday was possibly Wilder's most bizarre move of the season.

And if we're being honest (I know we're not allowed...) Since January, there's been a few.
Lafferty on for Stearman pushing Stevens into LCB is my favourite.

 

[Ricky]

And if we're being honest (I know we're not allowed...) Since January, there's been a few.
Lafferty on for Stearman pushing Stevens into LCB is my favourite.

Bristol City at home seemed to affect him quite badly. Hopefully some of the mistakes since aren't a sign of things to come. Maybe he just needs a pre season....

 

[Eric Cartman]

Bristol City at home seemed to affect him quite badly. Hopefully some of the mistakes since aren't a sign of things to come. Maybe he just needs a pre season....

Hope he doesn't need as many as Ched.

 

[Silent Blade]

Ian Porterfield used to forget occasionally that the best way to deal with Keith Edwards was to play him and let him get on with it.

Porterfield did drop Edwards from the line up quite a few times especially in the 1982-83 season and in the mid 1980s

 

[Gimli]

If he is I'm not surprised, since leaving him out has not actually led to an upturn in results.

Totally agree with this. Billy is one of the forum scapegoats (and now that Tyler isn't around to defend him someone else has to!) but in actual fact his record this season is very acceptable. When he plays our record is better than when he doesn't, he's the captain and he's also weighed in with (I think) a good goal tally for this level given the amount of games he's played. If hes pissed off then I can fully understand that.

 

[Revolution]

Porterfield did drop Edwards from the line up quite a few times especially in the 1982-83 season and in the mid 1980s

He did. That was my point. After it didn't work in 1982-3, he never dropped him in our promotion year. The only games Edwards missed were due to suspension and he scored 34 goals.

1985-6 was similar. Once restored to the starting line up, Edwards was ever present and scored 20 goals in 32 games.

 

[Davalon]

and now that Tyler isn't around to defend him someone else has to

 

[Sean Thornton]

Totally agree with this. Billy is one of the forum scapegoats (and now that Tyler isn't around to defend him someone else has to!) but in actual fact his record this season is very acceptable. When he plays our record is better than when he doesn't, he's the captain and he's also weighed in with (I think) a good goal tally for this level given the amount of games he's played. If hes pissed off then I can fully understand that.

He's hardly a scapegoat. A few may have heavily criticised him but generally, it's been a disappointing season for him and that's what's been said. Like a few, he'd started to struggle. When you see him wrestling with defenders it's generally a sign he's not going to do much. Games played it's been a good goals tally for him.

He's bound to be upset, he believes in himself. Good strikers tend too.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Totally agree with this. Billy is one of the forum scapegoats (and now that Tyler isn't around to defend him someone else has to!)

Ahem, Bashar Al Asaba

 

[Eric Cartman]

He's hardly a scapegoat. A few may have heavily criticised him but generally, it's been a disappointing season for him and that's what's been said. Like a few, he'd started to struggle. When you see him wrestling with defenders it's generally a sign he's not going to do much. Games played it's been a good goals tally for him.

He's bound to be upset, he believes in himself. Good strikers tend too.

I'd be pissed off if I was Billy. I've no idea why Donaldson deserves games infront of him.

 

[Pierre's PC]

Ahem, Bashar Al Asaba

Seems players aren't the only ones being "outed"

 

[Sean Thornton]

Ahem, Bashar Al Asaba

God is great

 

[Sean Thornton]

Seems players aren't the only ones being "outed"

Snide

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'd be pissed off if I was Billy. I've no idea why Donaldson deserves games infront of him.

A question for Wilder.

 

[Eric Cartman]

A question for Wilder.

There's a few I'd like to ask him of late, if I'm honest

 

[Eric Cartman]

Seems players aren't the only ones being "outed"

Just a guess I'm in the same boat as 'Tyler'

 

[Champagneblade]

I'd be pissed off if I was Billy. I've no idea why Donaldson deserves games infront of him.

In fairness if you played a lone striker, you’d pick Donaldson every time over Billy.

It’s only game situations that made Chris choose Donaldson over Billy.

Holding the ball in the corner although not to great effect was more fitting of a big unit like Clayton than it was Billy. Not that we were able to see it through mind!

Clayton hasn’t played much either.

 

[Eric Cartman]

In fairness if you played a lone striker, you’d pick Donaldson every time over Billy.

It’s only game situations that made Chris choose Donaldson over Billy.

Holding the ball in the corner although not to great effect was more fitting of a big unit like Clayton than it was Billy. Not that we were able to see it through mind!

Clayton hasn’t played much either.

I wouldn't play a lone striker away at a shit team like Birmingham when we're desperate for 3 points, so you're probably right

 

[Keen Blade]

The point, once again was about money.

Are you suggesting it's Wilder who's incompetent? For clarification.

Well it's either that or a man trying to do a job in the Championship with a League One budget.

Like most things in life , I suspect more than one factor is in play.

We've often seen the comment on here that "the Board can't expect Chris to keep pulling rabbits out of hats"

And just because CW can't continually pull off miracles (like turning Clarke into a hero for part of the season when everyone thought he was a crap signing) doesn't mean he's incompetent , just human , after all.

But where do our owners like to look for a scapegoat when good trends start reversing ? Could it be the manager's office ?

Think a bit more laterally , Sean , and you'll keep up.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well it's either that or a man trying to do a job in the Championship with a League One budget.

Like most things in life , I suspect more than one factor is in play.

We've often seen the comment on here that "the Board can't expect Chris to keep pulling rabbits out of hats"

And just because CW can't continually pull off miracles (like turning Clarke into a hero for part of the season when everyone thought he was a crap signing) doesn't mean he's incompetent , just human , after all.

But where do our owners like to look for a scapegoat when good trends start reversing ? Could it be the manager's office ?

Think a bit more laterally , Sean , and you'll keep up.

No need to keep up. Plenty of others post much the same on a daily basis. It's nothing new.

It's always been a poor budget, whether the plan was promotion, consolidation or a relegation scrap. As has also been said many times, where was the money that we'd all like to see spent coming from?

When we were flying prior to Burton, the thought on everyone's mind was the JTF and strengthening for that final push. Only the "realists" seriously expected big investment from the board even though we didn't see it pre season.

When you posted this

"And whose fault is that ? The fans ?
Or could it be that if a manager starts trying to clear out players to whom he's just given a contract (and have made no impact or not been selected) , it might begin to look a teensy weensy bit like incompetence ?"

It doesn't mention the board. Are you saying though he's wasted the pittance he's been given ? Because that's what it looks like?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

And whose fault is that ? The fans ?
Or could it be that if a manager starts trying to clear out players to whom he's just given a contract (and have made no impact or not been selected) , it might begin to look a teensy weensy bit like incompetence ?

Without sounding melodramatic CW has a period of about 12 games to get things back on track; 2 this season and 10ish up to the end of September next, possibly up to the end of October at best. An element of the fans will turn on him blade, or no blade if we are struggling for form and/or results. That is the reality of football. With this in mind, and now, whilst he has an enormous amount of goodwill, he'd be better to act decisively and get rid of players he doesn't rate or even isn't 100% sure about, whether they've been here 3 years or 6 months. If he comes out in the press & says, it's not worked out for them, it's best if we part company now, I doubt he'll catch any flack at all. It'd be worse if he doesn't do this, and come the back end of September certain players still haven't appeared on the pitch or a visibly sub-standard.

 

[Keen Blade]

No need to keep up. Plenty of others post much the same on a daily basis. It's nothing new.

It's always been a poor budget, whether the plan was promotion, consolidation or a relegation scrap. As has also been said many times, where was the money that we'd all like to see spent coming from?

When we were flying prior to Burton, the thought on everyone's mind was the JTF and strengthening for that final push. Only the "realists" seriously expected big investment from the board even though we didn't see it pre season.

When you posted this

"And whose fault is that ? The fans ?
Or could it be that if a manager starts trying to clear out players to whom he's just given a contract (and have made no impact or not been selected) , it might begin to look a teensy weensy bit like incompetence ?"

It doesn't mention the board. Are you saying though he's wasted the pittance he's been given ? Because that's what it looks like?

Of course he hasn't deliberately wasted it , he's a Blade like you & me - it just hasn't worked out as he'd hoped.

I shouldn't really post when I'm tired and emotional , after a season that came in like a lion and went out like a lamb - I really don't want to fall out about this Sean and I'm sorry for my keepy-uppy remark.
It felt like you were trying to force me into saying that CW has failed , when all I am highlighting is that we can't expect him to be a superhuman all the time - so if he's human , after all , he can make mistakes , but far fewer than our previous managers.
My points are :
We were doomed after Coutts break.
The board should have moved heaven & earth to replace him with quality , because this was the season to go up.
But the JTW shows that they didn't.
Chris tried his best with limited funds , hoping for more rabbits out of hats.
A small bunny called Evans popped out but not the other 3 midfielders or the crocked striker from Manure.
Our board know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
We now have some players in new contracts who have turned out NOT to improve the squad , which is a shame. And was never CW's desire/intention.
So we approach a summer when we desperately need fresh strikers to do the job for CW at the top of the pitch , taking into account our failure to turn possession into goals.
And our wages budget is even more limited than it was in January , when all we could manage was woeful Wilson on loan.
So CW is definitely NOT APPEH , raising the spectre of losing him.
In which case we'd go into freefall.
And what are our co-owners doing to arrest our current slide into mediocrity and a relegation battle next season ?
Having a cock-fight to see if they can snatch failure from the jaws of success !

 

[Kenilworth]

I must admit that his exclusion in round 2 vs the grunters was baffling at best. He looked absolutely forlorn. To be fair to Wilder he admitted he got it wrong but yeah it must have hurt seeing an unproven loanee be given the nod over you as club captain.

Agree - and Wilson has been utter shite in every game I have sen him in.
One goal - a swinger at Norwich - is all he can show for a wretched loan spell where he as contributed fuck all
His link play is awful
His first touch is abysmal
He plays for himself and not the team.
Complete waste of a loan

Went for the wrong Wilson. Should have gone for that Welsh lad from Liverpool that was loaned to Hull, Harry Wilson.

James Wilson will have to find another profession at this rate as he aint even good enough for Chesterfield.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Re: Midfield. I think the back end of the season has showed our reliance on Paul Coutts. I’m gutted nobody really stepped into his shoes and tried to replicate what does for the team. We either need another Coutts or educate the other midfielders into that role in the team.