Our wage bill...

[Deadbat]

Are you certain about this or just guesswork?

Certain about what?

The club said the parachute payment is effectively spent as we’ve taken a loan out against the future parachute payments, effectively meaning that when we get that last payment it services the loan.

We have not made any permanent signings for over a year so be surprised if we do now? Seems like the policy is loans. This might be down to finance or a chosen strategy but its odd as come seasons end three of our starters are loans and go back so we have to bring 3 more in.

I think it safe to say if we don't go up then we will have to sell what few assets we have in Berge and maybe Ndiaye/Jebbison as we will be need to recoup funds especially with so many high earners on contracts we can't shift.

We probably won't get close to the money we maybe could have got for Berge the longer he stays due to his injury record and inconsistent form.

There are definite similarities to that Sunderland side who had a bloated squad of old and expensive flops. Took them 5+ years and they are still recovering.

Worrying that WBA/Fulham look good for an instant return and we look miles off. Whether it be failing players or a manager that can't get new players to play his way, it's unclear what the plan is? I am concerned next summer we could be in a bit of a mess financially. Hope I am wrong of course and there is a plan behind the scenes to arrest the slide.

 

[Silent Blade]

Certain about what?

The club said the parachute payment is effectively spent as we’ve taken a loan out against the future parachute payments, effectively meaning that when we get that last payment it services the loan.

We have not made any permanent signings for over a year so be surprised if we do now? Seems like the policy is loans. This might be down to finance or a chosen strategy but its odd as come seasons end three of our starters are loans and go back so we have to bring 3 more in.

I think it safe to say if we don't go up then we will have to sell what few assets we have in Berge and maybe Ndiaye/Jebbison as we will be need to recoup funds especially with so many high earners on contracts we can't shift.

We probably won't get close to the money we maybe could have got for Berge the longer he stays due to his injury record and inconsistent form.

There are definite similarities to that Sunderland side who had a bloated squad of old and expensive flops. Took them 5+ years and they are still recovering.

Worrying that WBA/Fulham look good for an instant return and we look miles off. Whether it be failing players or a manager that can't get new players to play his way, it's unclear what the plan is? I am concerned next summer we could be in a bit of a mess financially. Hope I am wrong of course and there is a plan behind the scenes to arrest the slide.

Dont think it is as bad as Sunderland if the Prince is keeping up with the mortgage payments to Emirates Bank. That is my guesswork

 

[Houston_Blade]

Our recruitment team have shown previously that when there isn’t a lot to spend they’re capable of putting together a team that are able to get out of this division and finish 9th in the next.

Just need Wilder and Knill back know then as well

 

[Houston_Blade]

There are definite similarities to that Sunderland side who had a bloated squad of old and expensive flops. Took them 5+ years and they are still recovering.

On the plus side, at least we haven’t got Rodwell!

 

[LJBlade]

Just need Wilder and Knill back know then as well

I thought the point was about the recruitment team?

 

[Houston_Blade]

I thought the point was about the recruitment team?

I’d say claiming that the recruitment team got us to 9th in the PL was a bit disingenuous, wouldn’t you?

 

[Withington Blade]

Dont think it is as bad as Sunderland if the Prince is keeping up with the mortgage payments to Emirates Bank. That is my guesswork

I’d certainly hope our financial position is not as dire as Sunderland. For one thing they had been in the premier league a lot longer and the contracts they were handing out didnt allow for a reduction in player wages in the event of relegation, hence ridiculous situations like where Jack Rodwell was still sitting on a £3m pa contract when they were in league 1.

 

[LJBlade]

I’d say claiming that the recruitment team got us to 9th in the PL was a bit disingenuous, wouldn’t you?

Yes and I haven’t really claimed that (maybe my wording wasn’t great on a previous post). Either way I wouldn’t say that it’s ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that we don’t have a good recruitment team.

It wasn’t until Wilder got more involved in the recruitment that it started to go pear shaped.

 

[Deadbat]

I’d certainly hope our financial position is not as dire as Sunderland. For one thing they had been in the premier league a lot longer and the contracts they were handing out didnt allow for a reduction in player wages in the event of relegation, hence ridiculous situations like where Jack Rodwell was still sitting on a £3m pa contract when they were in league 1.

Wonder if the club put clauses in for us for the likes of Egan, Fleck, Baldock, McBurnie, Brewster and Stevens when we signed their contracts if we go down to League One?

 

[247Blade]

Have shaken head and still think that it is possible and achievable to build a good Championship side without spending huge sums.
There are good players around the EFL and possibly from our academy.
I don’t see many signings in January as the players we need are unlikely to be available, but there may be a couple to improve the squad.
If we can move up to the top third by May then the summer signings will be crucial and can lead to a promotion side.
This league is poor but the step up is huge.

Not with our current recruitment team!

 

[Houston_Blade]

Yes and I haven’t really claimed that (maybe my wording wasn’t great on a previous post). Either way I wouldn’t say that it’s ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that we don’t have a good recruitment team.

It wasn’t until Wilder got more involved in the recruitment that it started to go pear shaped.

Out of the 4 signings this season they seem to have a 25% success rate based on performances so far. Olsen is unconvincing, Davies isn't great, Hourihane can't displace Norwood. MGW looks good though.

If they had a hand in the Berge and Brewster deals then that's a 16.67% success rate in the last 2 seasons.

Jack Robinson is also bobbar so it dilutes the rate further but Osborn has been OK.

I'll not go back to McBurnie and Mousset as they paid for themselves in the first PL season but we also signed Freeman, Robinson (Callum) and Ramsdale so again not a great strike rate on those.

Further back when we were in the Championship and League 1 we had a good record but that is ancient history now in the context of football.

 

[Silent Blade]

Wonder if the club put clauses in for us for the likes of Egan, Fleck, Baldock, McBurnie, Brewster and Stevens when we signed their contracts if we go down to League One?

Not going to happen this season, doom-monger!

 

[LJBlade]

Out of the 4 signings this season they seem to have a 25% success rate based on performances so far. Olsen is unconvincing, Davies isn't great, Hourihane can't displace Norwood. MGW looks good though.

If they had a hand in the Berge and Brewster deals then that's a 16.67% success rate in the last 2 seasons.

Jack Robinson is also bobbar so it dilutes the rate further but Osborn has been OK.

I'll not go back to McBurnie and Mousset as they paid for themselves in the first PL season but we also signed Freeman, Robinson (Callum) and Ramsdale so again not a great strike rate on those.

Further back when we were in the Championship and League 1 we had a good record but that is ancient history now in the context of football.

Judging a recruitment team on percentages is far too simplistic. I assume you weren’t criticising when we finished 9th in the Premier League? Are you aware of the restrictions they’ve been working to?

As I said before ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ is not even close.

 

[Snowflake]

Not with our current recruitment team !

Not with our current recruitment team!

That’s the point. We don’t now know whether it is the same as under Wilder or not.

 

[Roygbiv]

I certainly think we are in a worse place now then when we were promoted to The Championship under Wilder. It was a miracle we got to The Premier League and somehow it's turned out to be one of the worst things to happen to us long term. The abysmal signings, the big contracts to players who were finished and the complete lack of investment in the facilities is a genuinely incredible fuck up when you think about it.

We neither did a Villa and go for proper quality or do a Norwich and just bank the money. We spent money we didn't really have on utter shit. Of all the signings we made after promotion to The Prem only Ramsdale was a definite success. Osborn and Moose were probably worth the money we paid too. The rest have been utter failures. To blow that much money on so many bad players is just bizarre really.

 

[1889]

I certainly think we are in a worse place now then when we were promoted to The Championship under Wilder. It was a miracle we got to The Premier League and somehow it's turned out to be one of the worst things to happen to us long term. The abysmal signings, the big contracts to players who were finished and the complete lack of investment in the facilities is a genuinely incredible fuck up when you think about it.

We neither did a Villa and go for proper quality or do a Norwich and just bank the money. We spent money we didn't really have on utter shit. Of all the signings we made after promotion to The Prem only Ramsdale was a definite success. Osborn and Moose were probably worth the money we paid too. The rest have been utter failures. To blow that much money on so many bad players is just bizarre really.

What’s more frustrating is that with half that money we could have comfortably built a state of the art training facility, that would be a lasting legacy of Wilders glory years and served the club for generations to come. Much as Warnock did with Shirecliffe.

It’s incredible to think how irresponsible our recruitment has been, we spent £23 million pound on Rhian Brewster who cant get in the team, while Leeds paid less than £1m for Joe Gelhardt from Wigan and I’d swap them in a heartbeat.

 

[Sean Thornton]

What’s more frustrating is that with half that money we could have comfortably built a state of the art training facility, that would be a lasting legacy of Wilders glory years and served the club for generations to come. Much as Warnock did with Shirecliffe.

It’s incredible to think how irresponsible our recruitment has been, we spent £23 million pound on Rhian Brewster who cant get in the team, while Leeds paid less than £1m for Joe Gelhardt from Wigan and I’d swap them in a heartbeat.

The old Warnock built the academy single handedly story. Any lasting legacy is simply wishful thinking as it didn’t happen.

 

[PaulHalfway]

Definitely should have built a new academy for 20 million once we had stayed up after the first season, at least we would have had the legacy of top class facilities for years to come

 

[S64 Blade]

Last season we trashed Wilder for sticking stubbornly to his 5/3/2 which was repeatedly being (narrowly) beaten. Seems to me that Slav is doing the same this season with his system/formation. And now we're losing to teams nowhere near as good.

Not quite the same. We lost every single week playing 5-3-2, with the same XI.

 

[Keen Blade]

How much did all our brilliant signings cost?
Brewster,McBurnie,Berge,Mousset,the only one with any credit Mousset
That's why there will be no signings in January imo

Credit ? Mousset ? The fat fanny who has never managed 90 minutes ?
No respect for the shirt , whinging to get off the pitch instead of sweating blood for the cause.

 

[Keen Blade]

T

Exactly - the parachute payments are spoken for already to cover costs already spent.

The fact we cannot make permanent signings when we are just out of the Prem should be a major alarm bell.

Berge will be sold at a hugely reduced price as we need funds to claw back and he is the only saleable asset left - maybe Ndiaye.

It worries me that out situation is very Sunderland like when they came down with an ageing squad on big wages and were stuck with them.

As you say end of this season we will be massively trying to recoup what we can and many of our high earners will be moved on even for nominal fees to get them off our books - problem is someone taking likes of Brewster, McBurnie, Fleck, Norwood, Stevens, Baldock, Egan - not sure anyone would be that interested in any of them at the moment.

We will lose Mousset, McGoldrick, Sharp, Freeman and Basham which will free up wages but stuck with many of the above sadly. The loan lads will be long gone before next season too.

It is worrying that if you started a team for next season now who would you say you'd want to start and after Ndiaye I am struggling. Building a whole new team of 9-10 players is going to be nigh on impossible with no funds and you can only have 5 loan players playing. So we will have to play 4 or 5 of the above players sadly. Players who have no shown no sign of improving and are regressing month by month.

Going to be a bumpy ride folks and my concern is us being in League One before any return to the Prem. That may seem negative but the recruitment has been so poor recently that I have no confidence we can change half the side and get this thing moving in the right direction and having so many high earners that cost so much stuck here will be a major lead weight on arresting the slide as we simply will not be able to bring more in of a decent quality due to paying the flops we already have - mostly to sit in the stands.

This was so obvious to me in the summer , i can't believe Slav actually took the job - well , apart from the salary.

 

[Withington Blade]

Definitely should have built a new academy for 20 million once we had stayed up after the first season, at least we would have had the legacy of top class facilities for years to come

Burnley have done the same. Not spent a fortune on players and chose to invest in an excellent training ground and academy instead. When they eventually come down they will at least have something to show for their time in the premier league.

To counter this, nobody (or certainly not many) were complaining when we were spending the cash. Wilder initially signed what he considered to be the best young players from the championship who would hopefully make the step up to the premier league, but if they didn’t, they would at least be good enough to mount a promotion challenge in the event of relegation. A sound enough theory but sadly it’s not worked out. Our big money signings have been a shambles - McBurnie and Brewster don’t even look championship standard on current form and Berge and Moose can’t stay fit.

May be too soon to write them off completely given their age, but improvements from all of them will be needed. Hate to think what value we would get if we had to sell that lot today.

 

[Tezza1889]

Burnley have done the same. Not spent a fortune on players and chose to invest in an excellent training ground and academy instead. When they eventually come down they will at least have something to show for their time in the premier league.

To counter this, nobody (or certainly not many) were complaining when we were spending the cash. Wilder initially signed what he considered to be the best young players from the championship who would hopefully make the step up to the premier league, but if they didn’t, they would at least be good enough to mount a promotion challenge in the event of relegation. A sound enough theory but sadly it’s not worked out. Our big money signings have been a shambles - McBurnie and Brewster don’t even look championship standard on current form and Berge and Moose can’t stay fit.

May be too soon to write them off completely given their age, but improvements from all of them will be needed. Hate to think what value we would get if we had to sell that lot today.

Burnley were shitting thier pants during covid.. They're on a right knife edge.

 

[Withington Blade]

Burnley were shitting thier pants during covid.. They're on a right knife edge.

Have they been taken over since? And at least they’ll have a nice training ground!

 

[Keen Blade]

Certain about what?

The club said the parachute payment is effectively spent as we’ve taken a loan out against the future parachute payments, effectively meaning that when we get that last payment it services the loan.

We have not made any permanent signings for over a year so be surprised if we do now? Seems like the policy is loans. This might be down to finance or a chosen strategy but its odd as come seasons end three of our starters are loans and go back so we have to bring 3 more in.

I think it safe to say if we don't go up then we will have to sell what few assets we have in Berge and maybe Ndiaye/Jebbison as we will be need to recoup funds especially with so many high earners on contracts we can't shift.

We probably won't get close to the money we maybe could have got for Berge the longer he stays due to his injury record and inconsistent form.

There are definite similarities to that Sunderland side who had a bloated squad of old and expensive flops. Took them 5+ years and they are still recovering.

Worrying that WBA/Fulham look good for an instant return and we look miles off. Whether it be failing players or a manager that can't get new players to play his way, it's unclear what the plan is? I am concerned next summer we could be in a bit of a mess financially. Hope I am wrong of course and there is a plan behind the scenes to arrest the slide.

Wilder killed our finances in two ways.
The most obvious is the flops who cost big fees.
Brewster's Millions , Berge , McKnob , Mousset 60 minutes etc etc.
The less obvious is the utterly crazy Wilder idea of giving long lucrative contracts as a reward for PAST service by players who were never going to get poached + were obviously just going to sit back + relax .... Fleck , Norwood etc etc ...the average players who'd done the impossible + got us into the PL from nothing.
Just give them their huge bonus but PLEASE don't saddle the Club with their wages for years to come.
If you wanted to completely FUCK UP A CLUB & ITS FINANCES , you would do what Wilder did.
No club with any sense or proper due diligence should ever employ him.

 

[Tezza1889]

Have they been taken over since? And at least they’ll have a nice training ground!

I think they were, but I remember Burnley lads i'm in touch with saying that they were close to being the first PL side that might pop.. Even in the Prem, they said we'd do a Bury if it carried on..

I though the Govt would step in and I told em so..

 

[Tezza1889]

Wilder killed our finances in two ways.
The most obvious is the flops who cost big fees.
Brewster's Millions , Berge , McKnob , Mousset 60 minutes etc etc.
The less obvious is the utterly crazy Wilder idea of giving long lucrative contracts as a reward for PAST service by players who were never going to get poached + were obviously just going to sit back + relax .... Fleck , Norwood etc etc ...the average players who'd done the impossible + got us into the PL from nothing.
Just give them their huge bonus but PLEASE don't saddle the Club with their wages for years to come.
If you wanted to completely FUCK UP A CLUB & ITS FINANCES , you would do what Wilder did.
No club with any sense or proper due diligence should ever employ him.

Wilder stays and we don't have this conversation.. That Prince was almost in tears, broke every rule in the book to reassure CW and he wanted out, flew half way around the world and risked the lot during covid, as for CW this was a team he built, that went down, and he ran out on them, (and us) they're still dealing with it.

Swapping callum Robinson because you don't like his blonde dyed hair, for oli Burke.... Get old gracefully CW.. We saw how good Robinson was that pre season.. What a mess.

 

[Keen Blade]

Wilder killed our finances in two ways.
The most obvious is the flops who cost big fees.
Brewster's Millions , Berge , McKnob , Mousset 60 minutes etc etc.
The less obvious is the utterly crazy Wilder idea of giving long lucrative contracts as a reward for PAST service by players who were never going to get poached + were obviously just going to sit back + relax .... Fleck , Norwood etc etc ...the average players who'd done the impossible + got us into the PL from nothing.
Just give them their huge bonus but PLEASE don't saddle the Club with their wages for years to come.
If you wanted to completely FUCK UP A CLUB & ITS FINANCES , you would do what Wilder did.
No club with any sense or proper due diligence should ever employ him.

Just realised that Wilder has left Slav in the position Adkins was in - a load of crap on long contracts ...then we sack Adkins , the contracts expire and along comes Chris with 30 goal Billy already in place + some freedom to recycle the squad.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Judging a recruitment team on percentages is far too simplistic. I assume you weren’t criticising when we finished 9th in the Premier League? Are you aware of the restrictions they’ve been working to?

As I said before ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ is not even close.

It's the business since we were at the top end of the PL that has cost us so I'm not critical of the recruitment that got us there at all.

In my opinion it appears that we have a competent scouting network when it comes to finding undervalued talent in the lower leagues, however we are piss poor when we get a bit of money to spend.

 

[1889]

The old Warnock built the academy single handedly story. Any lasting legacy is simply wishful thinking as it didn’t happen.

OK, Please enlighten us ?