Our record against the top six

[1973Blade]

So far we have got four points out of a possible 18 against the top six sides and failed to win against any of them. We are good at beating the sides struggling in the league but need to start raising our game against the top teams , in particular Scunthorpe and Bolton. Otherwise we will be playing one of the top teams in the playoffs

 

[Harry's Game]

Of course what is easy to forget is that every single person on here would have taken a play off spot at the start of this season, hopes where not high to say the least. I thought we could finish somewhere between 5th and 10th when the season started.

It could be argued Wilder has over achieved so far this season.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Of course what is easy to forget is that every single person on here would have taken a play off spot at the start of this season, hopes where not high to say the least. I thought we could finish somewhere between 5th and 10th when the season started.

It could be argued Wilder has over achieved so far this season.

Finishing top 2 in L1 is hardly over-achieving. I certainly would not have taken the play-offs at the start of the season. Are you really saying you would be happy to finish behind the likes of Scunthorpe?

We have already been in this division far too long - and much longer than any other club of our size.

 

[BigBed]

Shite.

Summed up in one word.

 

[Harry's Game]

Finishing top 2 in L1 is hardly over-achieving. I certainly would not have taken the play-offs at the start of the season. Are you really saying you would be happy to finish behind the likes of Scunthorpe?

We have already been in this division far too long - and much longer than any other club of our size.

For a normal club of our size I fully agree. With the no idea, no ambition, no investment, cut the wage bill, cut our cloth board we and Wilder have to put up with it is probably an over achievement to be where we currently are.

 

[blade too long]

So far we have got four points out of a possible 18 against the top six sides and failed to win against any of them. We are good at beating the sides struggling in the league but need to start raising our game against the top teams , in particular Scunthorpe and Bolton. Otherwise we will be playing one of the top teams in the playoffs

so weve drawn 4 of 6 and lost 2 away games

surely you look at it when youve had an equal number of home games


you could say weve only lost 2 of 6 games

 

[Sheffsteel]

So far we have got four points out of a possible 18 against the top six sides and failed to win against any of them. We are good at beating the sides struggling in the league but need to start raising our game against the top teams , in particular Scunthorpe and Bolton. Otherwise we will be playing one of the top teams in the playoffs

I know what you're trying to say but it's factually incorrect and Wilder was a making a similar point the other week.

Our record against the top teams only comes into play if we reach the play-offs, then we play those teams.
But st present even with our poor record against our rivals we are still top.
Also bear in mind that our home record is superb and we away when playing most of our rivals.

Anyway this only proves that our rivals must have a poor record against the weaker teams.
Wilder inferred that gaining wins against the "easy" teams could be key to success.
At the end of the day it's justabout getting enough points to finish top 2
So it doesn't matter how those points are obtained.

 

[SwissBlade]

So far we have got four points out of a possible 18 against the top six sides and failed to win against any of them. We are good at beating the sides struggling in the league but need to start raising our game against the top teams , in particular Scunthorpe and Bolton. Otherwise we will be playing one of the top teams in the playoffs

Current top 6 or sides which were in top 6 when we played them?

 

[Sheffsteel]

For a normal club of our size I fully agree. With the no idea, no ambition, no investment, cut the wage bill, cut our cloth board we and Wilder have to put up with it is probably an over achievement to be where we currently are.

Harry... where have you been the last few years?

We've been in the top 3 biggest spenders and most ambitious club EVERY season.
There's been plenty of investment, even with by far the biggest attendances and highest income we still make small (but sustainable) losses every season. Agree about the poor decision ( but at time many of decisions were deeme great decision by most fans). Also agree we've cut the budget but that partly to do with paying off management teams and paying off players. Other clubs fans call us the Man City of league 1 wanting to buy our way out of it.

Surely with those odds we shoud be finishing in the top 2?

Maybe your logic is just based solely on success?
But that a back to front logic.

So if a club sells all their best players and doesn't spend a penny BUT by some miracle they gained promotion would you say that club was ambitious and they had a great Chairman?

The irony is that it's the ambition by the fans and board that's part of the problem.
We could have easily stuck with Adkins as he's a fantastic proven record but we didn't want to show patience (which I agree with) and he was sacked.

Will be interesting if Wilder fails in the playoffs then how many fans will be calling for him and all his backroom staff to be sacked and then we start again?

 

[blade too long]

talking of blips

look at liverpool

beaten 3-2 at home by Swansea , knocked out of the efl cup by Saints , now 2-0 down at half time at home to wolves in the fa cup

3 home games , looked set fair to move on in 2 cups and the league , just shows theres no certainties in football

will liverpool collapse into the bottom half ,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Bladesman]

Of course what is easy to forget is that every single person on here would have taken a play off spot at the start of this season, hopes where not high to say the least. I thought we could finish somewhere between 5th and 10th when the season started.

It could be argued Wilder has over achieved so far this season.

Not really, with all bullshit the club have been spouting over recent seasons then I was expecting a top 2 finish. I have been expecting that since we got relegated.

 

[Ricky]

Finishing top 2 in L1 is hardly over-achieving. I certainly would not have taken the play-offs at the start of the season. Are you really saying you would be happy to finish behind the likes of Scunthorpe?

We have already been in this division far too long - and much longer than any other club of our size.

I'm certainly never happy finishing outside the top 2 in L1 but what a club 'should' be able to achieve and what you expect them to achieve are two different things.

We had no reason to expect automatic promotion this season, realistically. Too many things had to happen for us to achieve that.

The average expectation on here was for us to finish 6th or 7th. That was after the transfer window had closed. I think those expectations were very fair, and we look like comfortably exceeding them. http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/poll-expectations-following-the-transfer-window.49080/

We look like exceeding them due to a number of unexpected bonuses. These being...

Wilder being better than we thought he'd be
3-5-2 working so well
EEL doing well
Jake Wright's unexpected big contribution
Freeman's transformation
Coutts becoming a key player after being written off
Duffy moving successfully to number 10 despite being signed as a winger

But ultimately all those things boil down to the first one - good management.

We have overachieved so far this season and it's down to Wilder.

 

[Stretch]

Just to add some perspective it should be pointed out that Scunny haven't beaten anyone in the current to 6 either. Their record after 4 is 1 loss (Bolton away), draw (Fleetwood away), draw (Bradford away)and draw (Blades home). Hardly sparkling form either.

Bolton have a much better record with 3 wins a loss and a draw.

The only problem with any of this analysis however is that the top 6 keeps changing. So we have beaten several teams who were recently in the top 6 (Posh, Bristol Rovers and Sarfend, for example)

 

[Harry's Game]

Harry... where have you been the last few years?

We've been in the top 3 biggest spenders and most ambitious club EVERY season.
There's been plenty of investment, even with by far the biggest attendances and highest income we still make small (but sustainable) losses every season. Agree about the poor decision ( but at time many of decisions were deeme great decision by most fans). Also agree we've cut the budget but that partly to do with paying off management teams and paying off players. Other clubs fans call us the Man City of league 1 wanting to buy our way out of it.

Surely with those odds we shoud be finishing in the top 2?

Maybe your logic is just based solely on success?
But that a back to front logic.

So if a club sells all their best players and doesn't spend a penny BUT by some miracle they gained promotion would you say that club was ambitious and they had a great Chairman?

The irony is that it's the ambition by the fans and board that's part of the problem.
We could have easily stuck with Adkins as he's a fantastic proven record but we didn't want to show patience (which I agree with) and he was sacked.

Will be interesting if Wilder fails in the playoffs then how many fans will be calling for him and all his backroom staff to be sacked and then we start again?

Maybe if we let a side build over two or three years like Scunthorpe have done, we however sell our best players every summer meaning its year zero every August whomever the manager is.

I have no doubts if we don't go up Fleck will be sold to the Championship, possibly Coutts as well if Clough takes over at Forest

 

[blade too long]

Maybe if we let a side build over two or three years

maybe if we let him finish building one this season first

 

[Harry's Game]

maybe if we let him finish building one this season first

I'm talking about the board not the manager. Wilder has done a fantastic job even if we don't go up, if he was allowed to keep everyone he wanted at the end of the season and add to it for next season we should be even better then.

If we don't go up we all know that won't happen and he will have to start afresh again. It's like working with one hand tied behind your back and needless extra pressure applied.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Maybe if we let a side build over two or three years like Scunthorpe have done, we however sell our best players every summer meaning its year zero every August whomever the manager is.

I have no doubts if we don't go up Fleck will be sold to the Championship, possibly Coutts as well if Clough takes over at Forest

Yeh agree, if we don't go up then expect to lose Fleck but it'll be far decent money.

I suppose if a new manager came to Sheff Utd and he was told

Expectation is playoffs as an absolute minimum and you've got to also play decent attacking football.
We might sell our best player but some of that will be given to you to bring in your own men.
You will be given a decent starting budget, easily in the top 3 player budgets in the league.
And if you can justify the spending additional monies will be made available in the JTW.

I think most managers would be very happy with those odds.
Wilder has NEVER had it so good, by far and away the biggest budget he's EVER had in his 15 years as a manager.

 

[blade too long]

I dont subscribe to that view, if CW wants players to stay , theyll stay
theres no one that commands that big a fee they will leave

 

[blade too long]

Transfer
1 July 2016 RM Mark Duffy Birmingham City Free
1 July 2016 LB Chris Hussey Bury Undisclosed [2]
5 July 2016 CB James Wilson Oldham Athletic Free
8 July 2016 CM John Fleck Coventry City Free
8 July 2016 CB Jack O'Connell Brentford Undis
9 July 2016 CB Jake Wright Oxford United Free
27 July 2016 CF Leon Clarke Bury Undis
19 August 2016 GK Simon Moore Cardiff City Undisc
30 August 2016 CF Caolan Lavery Sheffield Wednesday Undisc
23 September 2016 CB Reece Brown Bury Free transfer
3 January 2017 CM Samir Carruthers Milton Keynes Dons Undisc
13 January 2017 LB Daniel Lafferty Burnley Undisc[
24 January 2017 CFJames Hanson Bradford City Undiscl
Transfers out
1 July 2016 RW Jamal Campbell-Ryce Barnet [a] Rel]
1 July 2016 CM Florent Cuvelier Walsall Rel
1 July 2016 CB Ioan Evans Gainsborough Trinity Free
1 July 2016 RW Ry CJ Hamilton Mansfield Town Free
1 July 2016 LB Bob Harris Free agent Rel
1 July 2016 GK Mark Howard Bolton Wanderers [d] Rel
1 July 2016 CB Terry Kennedy Alfreton Town [e] Rel
1 July 2016 CB Jay McEveley Ross County [f] Released ]
1 July 2016 LB Callum McFadzean Kilmarnock [g] Released
1 July 2016 CB Harrison McGahey Rochdale [h] Released
1 July 2016 GK George Willis Stalybridge Celtic Free
2 July 2016 CM Dean Hammond Free agent Mutual consent
4 July 2016 CF Jamie McDonagh Greenock Morton Free
7 July 2016 SS Diego De Girolamo Bristol City Free
15 July 2016 AM JoCoustrain Raith Rovers Free
8 August 2016 CF Che Adams Birmingham City £1,800,000
19 August 2016 LW Martyn Woolford Fleetwood Town Free
31 August 2016 CF Dominic Calvert-Lewin Everton £1,500,000
6 January 2017 CB Reece Brown Bury Rel

Loans in
12 August 2016 RW Harry Chapman Middlesbrough End of Season
31 August 2016 CB Ethan Ebanks-Landell Wolverhampton Wanderers End of Season
31 August 2016 LB Daniel Lafferty Burnley 13 January 2017 [a]
17 January 2017 LB Joe Riley Manchester United End of Season
24 January 2017 Jay O'Shea Chesterfield End of Season
Loans out
16 August 2016 CB Jake Wright York City 14 September 2016
19 August 2016 RB John Brayford Burton Albion End of Season
31 August 2016 CF Marc McNulty Bradford City 2 January 2017 [a]
31 August 2016 LB Kieran Wallace Fleetwood Town End of Season
1 January 2017 CM Benjamin Whiteman Mansfield Town End of Season
5 January 2017 CF Connor Hall Woking 5 February 2017


and to get us top with all these changes is amazing

 

[blade too long]

thats 7 points from 18 now southends in
weve got 14 per cent better v top 6 clubs this weekend without playing any of them

 

[PokerBlade]

Finishing top 2 in L1 is hardly over-achieving. I certainly would not have taken the play-offs at the start of the season. Are you really saying you would be happy to finish behind the likes of Scunthorpe?

We have already been in this division far too long - and much longer than any other club of our size.

Top two in League One isn't over achieving in itself. It's one hell of a feat given just what a shambles our side was this time last year. Targets change quickly in football, but honestly all I wanted from Wilder's first transfer window was to clear out the utter dross holding us back. Now we're past the JTW and the quality of the squad, as a whole, not just the starting eleven is light years ahead of what it was.

 

[1973Blade]

thats 7 points from 18 now southends in
weve got 14 per cent better v top 6 clubs this weekend without playing any of them

Yet our number of defeats to the top six has gone up

 

[blade too long]

Yet our number of defeats to the top six has gone up

cant have everything

 

[davidblade]

 

[blade67]

current records

s
The Blades 6 - 6
Scunny 6 - 6
Bolton 5 - 11
Fleetwood 7- 9
Bradford 6 - 6
Southend 9 - 12

Bolton look the best of the best, but I'd not swap with them ATM

This implies that Southend only have 1 more game against the teams above them. Might be worth a cheeky bet for the play-offs

 

[1973Blade]

current records

s
The Blades 6 - 6
Scunny 6 - 6
Bolton 5 - 11
Fleetwood 7- 9
Bradford 6 - 6
Southend 9 - 12

Bolton look the best of the best, but I'd not swap with them ATM

This implies that Southend only have 1 more game against the teams above them. Might be worth a cheeky bet for the play-offs

We've played seven games against the top six?

 

[blade67]

We've played seven games against the top six?

Yes you are right, so the records are as follows

The Blades 7 - 6
Scunny 6 - 6
Bolton 5 - 11
Fleetwood 7- 9
Bradford 6 - 6
Southend 9 - 12

Unless I've got any of the others wrong as well .

Basically, we are worst. What should we do?

 

[Pinchy]

How many times do I have to say this? We don't know our results against the top six until May.

In any event, it's irrelevant. 24 teams; 46 games; all play each other twice; who gets most points?

 

[Houso]

Presimably mentioned, but haven't most of our games this far against the top 6 been away? Skews the stats somewhat.

 

[Punk Blade]

Basically, we are worst. What should we do?

Win our next two home games.