Our 43 Professional Players - Who are they?

[Sothall_Blade]

Ref Name Pos Age

25 Senior Players:-

1 Howard G 29
2 Long G 22
3 Alcock D 28
4 Brayford D 28
5 Collins D 32
6 Edgar D 28
7 Freeman D 23
8 Harris D 28
9 Kennedy D 22
10 McEveley D 30
11 Basham M 27
12 Campbell-Ryce M 32
13 Coutts M 27
14 Cuvelier M 23
15 Done M 27
16 Flynn M 27
17 J.Wallace M 24
18 McFadzean M 21
19 Scougall M 23
20 Woolford M 30
21 Baxter F 23
22 Higdon F 32
23 McNulty F 23
24 Sammon F 29
25 Sharp F 29

10 Young Senior Players (Have been in the First Team Squad):-

26 Willis G 21
27 McGahey D 20
28 Calvert-Lewin M 18
29 Dimaio M 19
30 K.Wallace M 20
31 Khan M 18
32 Reed M 18
33 Whiteman M 19
34 Adams F 19
35 De Girolamo F 20

8 Junior Players:-

36 Eastwood G 18
37 Evans D 18
38 Phillips D 18
39 Brooks M 18
40 Heh M 18
41 Maw M 18
42 Cockerline F 18
43 Wright F 18

Is the above list correct? Should anyone not be on it? Have I missed anyone off?
In an ideal world, how many Senior Professionals should we have in the squad?
How many "Young Senior" Pros (18 to 21) do you keep on the books?
How long do you persist with them for if they're not in the matchday 18?
8 Juniors were signed on professional contracts at the end of last season? Is that too many?
If there is a chance they can make it in the long-term, should we sign them on.
Even if that means the squad numbers continue to grow?

 

[Pollingtonblade]

That list is fucking depressing :-(

 

[UnitedBlade]

10 of the 25 senior players are hardly ever in the first team squad.

Some are on loan and probably won't ever come back, some are serial crocks. The only one I'd keep is Harris but what's happened to him. He had concussion and hasn't been seen since. Some would put him in the crock category.

We need to think in terms of 4 new quality wages replacing 10 wasted wages. It won't be done properly until the Summer.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Ref Name Pos Age

25 Senior Players:-

1 Howard G 29
2 Long G 22
3 Alcock D 28
4 Brayford D 28
5 Collins D 32
6 Edgar D 28
7 Freeman D 23
8 Harris D 28
9 Kennedy D 22
10 McEveley D 30
11 Basham M 27
12 Campbell-Ryce M 32
13 Coutts M 27
14 Cuvelier M 23
15 Done M 27
16 Flynn M 27
17 J.Wallace M 24
18 McFadzean M 21
19 Scougall M 23
20 Woolford M 30
21 Baxter F 23
22 Higdon F 32
23 McNulty F 23
24 Sammon F 29
25 Sharp F 29

10 Young Senior Players (Have been in the First Team Squad):-

26 Willis G 21
27 McGahey D 20
28 Calvert-Lewin M 18
29 Dimaio M 19
30 K.Wallace M 20
31 Khan M 18
32 Reed M 18
33 Whiteman M 19
34 Adams F 19
35 De Girolamo F 20

8 Junior Players:-

36 Eastwood G 18
37 Evans D 18
38 Phillips D 18
39 Brooks M 18
40 Heh M 18
41 Maw M 18
42 Cockerline F 18
43 Wright F 18

Is the above list correct? Should anyone not be on it? Have I missed anyone off?
In an ideal world, how many Senior Professionals should we have in the squad?
How many "Young Senior" Pros (18 to 21) do you keep on the books?
How long do you persist with them for if they're not in the matchday 18?
8 Juniors were signed on professional contracts at the end of last season? Is that too many?
If there is a chance they can make it in the long-term, should we sign them on.
Even if that means the squad numbers continue to grow?

Quite incredible when you see the full list - of the 35 senior & young senior players 24 are out of contract in June - quite who allowed thIs situation to arise?

A recruitment & selection policy out of control with no obvious link to a cohesive strategic plan and with seemingly little concern towards budgetary control.

What happens next is the resultant fire sale & cost cutting, which in turn sets the club back a further 3 years.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Quite incredible when you see the full list - of the 35 senior & young senior players 24 are out of contract in June - quite who allowed thIs situation to arise?

A recruitment & selection policy out of control with no obvious link to a cohesive strategic plan and with seemingly little concern towards budgetary control.

What happens next is the resultant fire sale & cost cutting, which in turn sets the club back a further 3 years.

It has been out of control for too long but it shouldn't necessarily put us back 3 years.

If Turnbull has put in a proper scouting network, we could fix it next summer.

I know this is United but you can put this right.

 

[Deaneandagana]

It has been out of control for too long but it shouldn't necessarily put us back 3 years.

If Turnbull has put in a proper scouting network, we could fix it next summer.

I know this is United but you can put this right.

Presumably Turnbull is drawing up the summer recruitment list given the numbers who will leave - problem he's got is knowing which division we'll be in.

Some time ago a friend of mine had a meeting with one of our previous chief exec's who pretty much alluded to your comments about this type of thing going on for too long.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Howard
Alcock
Kennedy
Cuvelier
Flynn
J.Wallace
McFadzean
Scougall
Baxter
Higdon
McNulty
Willis
Dimaio
Whiteman
De-Girolamo
Eastwood
Evans
Phillips
Brooks
Heh
Maw
Cockerline
Wright
Banton (missing from the list)



Above would be my January exodus list if we canfind takers. Looks like Alcock and McNulty are already done. Some of the youngsters might be loans rather than scrapping altogether but I’d be happy to see those 23 go reducing us to a list of 20 that would include a few youngsters like Wallace, McGahey, Adams, Reed, Khan and Calvert Lewin as cover. We’d then need about 5 in I reckon who could all seriously improve the first team. At the end of the season, I’d also look to release Collins, McEveley and JCR as well. And possibly Woolford depending on whether he can maintain his recent level of performance. In I’d like a GK to challenge Long, CB, box to box midfielder, Winger and Striker as well as making Hammond permanent.

 

[IOM Blade]

43 and only 3 or 4 are good enough for a promotion winning team.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

43 and only 3 or 4 are good enough for a promotion winning team.

A tad harsh;

Long
Brayford, Edgar, X, Harris
Coutts, Basham, X (or Hammond), X
Sharp, Done
​

should be plenty good enough given the 2/3 additions and a right royal kick up the arse

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Ref Name Pos Age

25 Senior Players:-

1 Howard G 29
2 Long G 22
3 Alcock D 28
4 Brayford D 28
5 Collins D 32
6 Edgar D 28
7 Freeman D 23
8 Harris D 28
9 Kennedy D 22
10 McEveley D 30
11 Basham M 27
12 Campbell-Ryce M 32
13 Coutts M 27
14 Cuvelier M 23
15 Done M 27
16 Flynn M 27
17 J.Wallace M 24
18 McFadzean M 21
19 Scougall M 23
20 Woolford M 30
21 Baxter F 23
22 Higdon F 32
23 McNulty F 23
24 Sammon F 29
25 Sharp F 29

10 Young Senior Players (Have been in the First Team Squad):-

26 Willis G 21
27 McGahey D 20
28 Calvert-Lewin M 18
29 Dimaio M 19
30 K.Wallace M 20
31 Khan M 18
32 Reed M 18
33 Whiteman M 19
34 Adams F 19
35 De Girolamo F 20

8 Junior Players:-

36 Eastwood G 18
37 Evans D 18
38 Phillips D 18
39 Brooks M 18
40 Heh M 18
41 Maw M 18
42 Cockerline F 18
43 Wright F 18

Is the above list correct? Should anyone not be on it? Have I missed anyone off?
In an ideal world, how many Senior Professionals should we have in the squad?
How many "Young Senior" Pros (18 to 21) do you keep on the books?
How long do you persist with them for if they're not in the matchday 18?
8 Juniors were signed on professional contracts at the end of last season? Is that too many?
If there is a chance they can make it in the long-term, should we sign them on.
Even if that means the squad numbers continue to grow?

Just shows how ridiculously misleading the "43 players" justification for the bloated squad cliche is.

Yes, the squad is "overlarge" - as is, say, Peterboro's squad (& many other squads in the division, no doubt). Yes, it needs trimming. But we haven't got 43 players fighting for a first-team shirt.

There's nothing stopping us buying & improving in key positions while (or before) the squad is trimmed, apart from the perennial lack of ambition (& McCabe having got cold feet. Again.)

 

[Tezza1889]

It's a sad inditement that we include the youngsters as paid professionals when analysing the payroll issues, never before have they been mentioned as part of the problem as they have been this year, it stinks....

If McCabe and the prince want an academy to produce little bundles of cash and are obviously very happy when we make millions from them then we shouldn't include them in the mix when doing the costs, I'm sure we never mentioned the youth team of old in this way, it should be seen as necessary expenditure, Producing something to make profit on, sadly that's what we do...

We all know what needs to be done, ship out the excess that never plays would be a perfect start, just cancel them, don't worry about signing replacements, just pay em up, I only say this because we're talking like we've got nothing to spend when we use kids as excuses for our financial woes, so let's bite the bullet this January and have an expensive releasing session, it just might take away what appear to be excuses from our sad unambitious board, summer would be fun wouldn't it when they'd have no kids or crocks to hide behind...

 

[BushBlade]

Howard
Alcock
Kennedy
Cuvelier
Flynn
J.Wallace
McFadzean
Scougall
Baxter
Higdon
McNulty
Willis
Dimaio
Whiteman
De-Girolamo
Eastwood
Evans
Phillips
Brooks
Heh
Maw
Cockerline
Wright
Banton (missing from the list)



Above would be my January exodus list if we canfind takers. Looks like Alcock and McNulty are already done. Some of the youngsters might be loans rather than scrapping altogether but I’d be happy to see those 23 go reducing us to a list of 20 that would include a few youngsters like Wallace, McGahey, Adams, Reed, Khan and Calvert Lewin as cover. We’d then need about 5 in I reckon who could all seriously improve the first team. At the end of the season, I’d also look to release Collins, McEveley and JCR as well. And possibly Woolford depending on whether he can maintain his recent level of performance. In I’d like a GK to challenge Long, CB, box to box midfielder, Winger and Striker as well as making Hammond permanent.

Why are you writing off the youth players? Have you seen them play?

 

[1973Blade]

Do we still have Jamie McDonagh, who scored in the pre season friendly at Matlock. He looked like a decent prospect.

 

[Barney]

Found 'em.

 

[Esablade]

Yeah, I'm sure the figure quoted earlier in the season for 'bloated squad' was 30-something..seem's it's gone up as the season's progressed with the addition of kids and the like to make things seem worse...but why would they do that?

They'll be adding the tea ladies and ball boys in next...

 

[Large Mendonca]

A tad harsh;

Long
Brayford, Edgar, X, Harris
Coutts, Basham, X (or Hammond), X
Sharp, Done
​

should be plenty good enough given the 2/3 additions and a right royal kick up the arse

I wouldn't have Basham, Harris or Hammond in there either. Coutts is on friggin thin ice too (although i concede he's done well the last 2 games).

 

[Woodwardfan]

A tad harsh;

Long
Brayford, Edgar, X, Harris
Coutts, Basham, X (or Hammond), X
Sharp, Done
​

should be plenty good enough given the 2/3 additions and a right royal kick up the arse

Don't like to see the Coutts, Hammond, Basham combination, two playing together maximum I'd say.

Which players then provide a subs bench and the essential cover for a promotion challenge to cover suspensions and injuries. About 10 further players is the norm maybe plus a couple of youngsters.

Having chosen those 21 players then list those players you want to see moved out and decide how it can be achieved. Some of those you list will be on contracts beyond summer 2016 probably.

That's the size of Adkins current problem but it has to be said he has imported 5 players to add to the overall costs and without noticeable improvement apart from Sharp.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Looking at that long list of players 15 were signed by Clough and 5 by Adkins.

How many were actually money well spent (fees and wages) or definitely worth keeping ?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Why are you writing off the youth players? Have you seen them play?

Not much, that's why I said some would be loans. I'd be more inclined to loan them out to try to get them games at League 2 level to see if they look like making it. I just don't see any of those players adding much this season.

 

[Woodwardfan]

In actual fact this thread demonstrates why we are not fulfilling expectations. So much of the Prince's new money has been wasted together with the cup money and Maguire and even Murphy money.

Clough and his brother have a lot to answer for and Adkins could have done so much better than Sammon, Woolford and Hammond.

We are left in a position where we can't move forward until we offload a number of players and that is not an unreasonable approach when you look at the list of long players above. Adding to that without moving on say half a dozen at least would be ridiculous frankly.

Good managers make their signings count because the club needs to improve to succeed and contracts mean players are at the club for years and we are stuck with crocks if they are crocks, under-performers and an unbalanced squad. How appalling it was for Clough to stuff the squad with lookalike, small midfielders and no height and power and pace. How poor it has been for Adkins not to introduce any pace.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Don't like to see the Coutts, Hammond, Basham combination, two playing together maximum I'd say.

Which players then provide a subs bench and the essential cover for a promotion challenge to cover suspensions and injuries. About 10 further players is the norm maybe plus a couple of youngsters.

Having chosen those 21 players then list those players you want to see moved out and decide how it can be achieved. Some of those you list will be on contracts beyond summer 2016 probably.

That's the size of Adkins current problem but it has to be said he has imported 5 players to add to the overall costs and without noticeable improvement apart from Sharp.

Not over keen on that midfield three myself tbh and the problem is probably Basham in that I'm still not convinced what his best position is (the same problem he had at Blackpool).

Coutts and Beard played well down the right under Clough at Derby and by all accounts seem to be clicking in recent games. We have to presume that Hammond is here to stay so we definitely need creativity down the left and in the middle if Basham is not the answer (or is moved back to the centre of defence).

Based on what we have (and stuck with for the moment), if the 'Xs' are filled above, I'd be happy with Reed, Freeman, Adams, Flynn (if he ever returns to fitness), Howard, either Collins or McEveley, Scougall, Woolford, Sammon and Wallace K as the back up 10 with Baxter if he's staying although I'd get shut as mentioned in other threads.

The squad needs an overhaul as we know but we should be challenging IMO with that group of 21 given the three key additions.

Easy this management lark

 

[RMBlade]

Good managers make their signings count because the club needs to improve to succeed and contracts mean players are at the club for years

Luckily Adkins has made mainly loan signings.
Edgar Loan (wouldn't mind permanent.)
Hammond Loan (starting to improve wouldn't mind permanent)
Sammon Loan (get shut)
Sharp Perm one of our best players, but he may not be worth the wages (im assuming they are large).
Woolford (not good enough, but was a free transfer, wages probably aren't too high)

 

[BushBlade]

Not much, that's why I said some would be loans. I'd be more inclined to loan them out to try to get them games at League 2 level to see if they look like making it. I just don't see any of those players adding much this season.

They're not really expected to though. As far as I'm aware, they don't even train with the first team. It seems a harsh and unnecessary reaction to having a few too many senior players.

 

[mosbolad]

It's a sad inditement that we include the youngsters as paid professionals when analysing the payroll issues, never before have they been mentioned as part of the problem as they have been this year, it stinks....

Why do you say this Tezza, and exactly what stinks? As far as I am aware youngsters who have a contract ARE paid professionals, what would you class them as? I'm not on about the Academy lads (ie the youth team up to 18yrs) by the way, they are not on paid contracts.

Never before have we had so many paid professionals. Even after the Youth Cup final when the youngsters were supposed to be the future there was nowhere near as many on pro' contracts.

It's not just the salaries of the players it's actually accommodating and training them all. How on earth can a league 1 club cope with 43 turning up every day expecting (as they should do) to be trained at a high level.

It seems you are taking it as an opportunity to knock the club, the board or whoever. Clough had the final say on signing, and it is Clough (as far as I am aware) for us being in this predicament. You could say the board ought to have overruled him but they placed their trust in him and here we are with 43 professionals. A grossly unrealistic number for a league 1 club.

 

[Grappler]

Howard
Alcock
Kennedy
Cuvelier
Flynn
J.Wallace
McFadzean
Scougall
Baxter
Higdon
McNulty
Willis
Dimaio
Whiteman
De-Girolamo
Eastwood
Evans
Phillips
Brooks
Heh
Maw
Cockerline
Wright
Banton (missing from the list)



Above would be my January exodus list if we canfind takers. Looks like Alcock and McNulty are already done. Some of the youngsters might be loans rather than scrapping altogether but I’d be happy to see those 23 go reducing us to a list of 20 that would include a few youngsters like Wallace, McGahey, Adams, Reed, Khan and Calvert Lewin as cover. We’d then need about 5 in I reckon who could all seriously improve the first team. At the end of the season, I’d also look to release Collins, McEveley and JCR as well. And possibly Woolford depending on whether he can maintain his recent level of performance. In I’d like a GK to challenge Long, CB, box to box midfielder, Winger and Striker as well as making Hammond permanent.

Bit harsh on some of the youngsters Dane, they can't be costing us that much, Jake Wright might be able to step up, always impressed me when I have seen him play.

 

[Grappler]

Do we still have Jamie McDonagh, who scored in the pre season friendly at Matlock. He looked like a decent prospect.

Good point pal, not heard him mentioned for a while. Also, CJ Hamilton and Manny Adebowale are still with us I think? (striker and defender)

 

[1danewhitehouse]

They're not really expected to though. As far as I'm aware, they don't even train with the first team. It seems a harsh and unnecessary reaction to having a few too many senior players.

Bit harsh on some of the youngsters Dane, they can't be costing us that much, Jake Wright might be able to step up, always impressed me when I have seen him play.

I might have been a bit unclear. When I said some would be loans I was referring to people like Jake Wright. Not saying they should be shipped out permanently but on loan. The senior players from my list would be the ones to ship out permanently. Loan spells at League 2/ conference level should then give us an idea of which youth players have a decent change of making it with some (Reed, Wallace, DCL, Khan, Adams) being around the squad to supplement a really strong first 11.

 

[Grappler]

I might have been a bit unclear. When I said some would be loans I was referring to people like Jake Wright. Not saying they should be shipped out permanently but on loan. The senior players from my list would be the ones to ship out permanently. Loan spells at League 2/ conference level should then give us an idea of which youth players have a decent change of making it with some (Reed, Wallace, DCL, Khan, Adams) being around the squad to supplement a really strong first 11.

Got it. I think any young 18 year old pro should be shipped out to League 2, unless outstanding, give them at least six months and try and make sure they are getting first team starts. I would imagine that it could be written/agreed between both sides? That the lad won't simply be bench warming, unless injured? maybe not, not sure.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Looking at that long list of players 15 were signed by Clough and 5 by Adkins.

How many were actually money well spent (fees and wages) or definitely worth keeping ?

As mentioned before, Clough offloaded loads of players as well as bringing them in. Some within weeks of his arrival (e.g. King, Taylor):-

Signed: Scougall, Harris, JCR, McNulty, Basham, Wallace J, Butler, Davies, Alcock, McGahey, Higdon, McEveley, Turner, Adams, Wallace K, Coutts, Brayford, Done (18)
Outs: King, Williams, McMahon, Barry, Brandy, Westlake, Hill, Miller, McGinty, Whitehouse, Johns, Hodder, Smith, Taylor, Maguire, Butler, Ironside, Porter, McGinn (19)

Adkins has so far added 5 new players (Sharp, Woolford, Sammon, Edgar, Hammond) and has not offloaded anyone on a permanent basis (except not by choice Murphy).
He also brought the likes of Diego, McFadzean and JCR back into the fold and has then hardly used them (+ Collins of course).
It's all very well him moaning about inheriting a squad of 43 players (only 25 of whom are seniors).
What has he done about it in his first six months in charge?

 

[Treeton Blade]

Are

43 and only 3 or 4 are good enough for a promotion winning team.

But they are all hard working professionals