Objective opinions on our investment

[PeteBlade]

Things take time. I'll give the manager a year but I believe he will have us promoted by March. It's very early days. He's learning about the players all the time as indeed we are in a more attacking style. We are short of more than defenders.

That's not really a response to whether we had a good transfer window or not. I think Adkins is an excellent manager who will lead us to promotion this season or the next, but only if his hands are tied.

We ended this transfer window weaker than when we started it. Which by definition is a poor window.

 

[wizadry]

McCabe gets bludgeoned over the head for the GCI comment, but I can see why he made it. As things stand, we are a stable club that despite years in this league still have funds to invest – notwithstanding the problems to get the specific targets we want to invest these in.

Prior to the Prince's arrival we had year-on-year cost-cutting that tried to cope with the continual annual losses the club makes. Wilson in season 2 was unable to offer Williamson the cash to stay, and we were barely able to agree with McDonald. The signings we were making were in the £0-300k market. This continued to the summer of season 3 where Weir was expected to fish about for scraps in the lower end of the market on low wages – McGinty and Jasper Johns for example. Meanwhile weren't we cutting staff in the non-footballing parts of the club, moving on individuals that had been at the Lane for years?

Then the Prince game in. We suddenly had the ability to invest, and quickly did so with no return. We then sacked Weir and his assistants, replaced with Clough and his entourage, and backed him with more investment that January. Last season we had funds to invest, signed some in the summer, and then blew all of the Maguire funds last January on Brayford & Done. This summer, despite our ridiculously bulky squad, we have added significantly while barely trimming any of it. We're still looking to invest even now, without actively looking to flog out more sellable squad members.

This might not be many fans' idea of "game-changing", but without the investment we would likely be an absolute mess. People might hate this league, but save for some horrendous mismanagement by a manager out of his depth we've been in no danger of a collapse financially or on a footballing side of things, while clubs like Pompey have plummeted and others like Coventry have gone through various off the field turmoil that's transferred onto the pitch. It's too easy to take what the Prince & Co have done for granted. If the Prince withdrew from the club tomorrow we would be royally fucked.

You're right in that if the Prince went we'd be royally fucked, like what you did there, but where does that leave McCabe? And league wise, can WE be in anymore of a mess, which obviously coincides with funding?

 

[PeteBlade]

We seem to have invested in some injury prone mates of the previous manager and very nice looking pitch.

Billy Blade may have cost some money as well to be fair but he needs to score 25 - 30 goals this season as we haven't brought much else in.

Not sure why Sharp gets hate from some sections of our support, seemingly for being a Blade. When we signed him, I didn't particularly think we needed him at the time, but him and Adkins work excellently together, he's had some amazing success with him IN THIS DIVISION and if we play the right way he will get an absolute hatful of goals.

 

[The Vicar]

In response to your original thread the investment has been piecemeal alongside selling our best players. £5 - 10 million upfront whilst keeping Lowton, Blackman, Macdonald, Maguire & Murphy & we would not be discussing this. And at the same time we have wasted some of the money just staying a float in this division.

 

[zablade]

Things take time. I'll give the manager a year but I believe he will have us promoted by March. It's very early days.

Hmmmm.. The last couple of seasons the champions only lost 6 or 7 games, we have lost three before the end of September, you must be expecting us to go on a heck of a run at some point.

 

[Woodwardfan]

That's not really a response to whether we had a good transfer window or not. I think Adkins is an excellent manager who will lead us to promotion this season or the next, but only if his hands are tied.

We ended this transfer window weaker than when we started it. Which by definition is a poor window.

The manager works to a budget. I value the two owners. Any manager of SUFC who fails has only himself to blame. Whether Adkins does the job we will see. In league 1 he has all the tools he needs IMO.

 

[PeteBlade]

The manager works to a budget. I value the two owners. Any manager of SUFC who fails has only himself to blame. Whether Adkins does the job we will see. In league 1 he has all the tools he needs IMO.

You seem to be answering questions that I haven't asked..

 

[Harry's Game]

I didn't particularly think we needed him at the time, but him and Adkins work excellently together, he's had some amazing success with him IN THIS DIVISION and if we play the right way he will get an absolute hatful of goals.

I would have highlighted the word IF there.

 

[PeteBlade]

I would have highlighted the word IF there.

Same goes for pretty much every player we sign. Sharp has scored 30-40 goals in this league and still only 29.
At times he looked like the only one who gave a shit today. And owned up to his failings after the Colchester game.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

You're right in that if the Prince went we'd be royally fucked, like what you did there, but where does that leave McCabe? And league wise, can WE be in anymore of a mess, which obviously coincides with funding?

We can't just keep throwing money at this situation imo – it's not the instant fix, and clubs with less investment manage to get out of this division (as Adkins did at Scunny for example).

Leaguewise, yes we can be in more of a mess. Much more.

 

[BushBlade]

Agreed, but when investment is raised the question of wages is often used as a counter argument. If our wage bill is less now than before The Prince then it can't really be used to explain 'substantial investment'

Well, it probably can. McCabe undoubtedly had to fund a huge loss in that first season and one that he openly admitted he wouldn't repeat. That's why we were garbage in Wilson's second season.
If the Prince is now covering our losses, you could consider it investment. Certainly from his point of view it is.

 

[stringjunior]

Thank for the contribution. Maybe notice the thread title and move along yourself if it doesn't interest you.
Or hey, go wild, start your own thread.

ob·jec·tive
(əb-jĕk′tĭv)
adj.
- Existing independent of or external to the mind; actual or real: objective reality.
- Based on observable phenomena; empirical: objective facts.
- Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic.

I would say none of us, or at least very few, on this forum are in a position to be objective, using the dictionary definition at least. Point 3 in particular colours all our judgments I would argue

 

[PeteBlade]

ob·jec·tive
(əb-jĕk′tĭv)
adj.
- Existing independent of or external to the mind; actual or real: objective reality.
- Based on observable phenomena; empirical: objective facts.
- Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic.

I would say none of us, or at least very few, on this forum are in a position to be objective, using the dictionary definition at least. Point 3 in particular colours all our judgments I would argue

Ah right, so it's the thread title you take objection to. Nice one.

 

[BushBlade]

We can't just keep throwing money at this situation imo – it's not the instant fix, and clubs with less investment manage to get out of this division (as Adkins did at Scunny for example).

Leaguewise, yes we can be in more of a mess. Much more.

The only thing worse than throwing money at it would be not throwing money at it.

If the two owners want value for money I suggest they consider getting rid of the various directors that have no experience of running a football club beyond that which they have gained at SUFC and bring in some people with proven track records of running a club like ours. Otherwise we will just continue to make the same mistakes.

 

[BushBlade]

ob·jec·tive
(əb-jĕk′tĭv)
adj.
- Existing independent of or external to the mind; actual or real: objective reality.
- Based on observable phenomena; empirical: objective facts.
- Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic.

I would say none of us, or at least very few, on this forum are in a position to be objective, using the dictionary definition at least. Point 3 in particular colours all our judgments I would argue

But then there's the philosophical argument of whether anyone can be truly objective.

 

[Barney]

The money started being shipped out when we sacked Weir. He had a 5 year contract or something didn't he? Can't have come cheap. Following on from that, I think they invested heavily when Clough was manager but that that was unfortunately squandered by, for the most part, poor signings we payed/ are paying well over the odds for, whether it be in fee's or wages. Hence why we're struggling to get rid of them now.

After deciding to sack Clough, a no doubt large sum of money was required to pay off Clough and his team and appoint Adkins, Wilkins and Crosby. That's probably a seasons investment at first team level in itself, purely on staff positions. But having said that, this should have been taken into consideration when making the decision to sack Clough. They must have weighed up whether or not it would be financially viable to sack Clough, appoint Adkins then still have enough available to invest in the team once more.

Therein lies the problem though, the task of investing now has been somewhat limited due to Clough's transfer dealings. It is a challenge to get rid of most of the rubbish he brought in. Despite the challenging nature, have the board and Adkins really made much of an effort at moving on a few players? It has come across entirely as if they haven't. To add to that, I have to say I'm not a fan of Adkins' transfers to date. His bit of paper with his transfer priority list marked must have been turned upside down.

 

[wizadry]

We can't just keep throwing money at this situation imo – it's not the instant fix, and clubs with less investment manage to get out of this division (as Adkins did at Scunny for example).

Leaguewise, yes we can be in more of a mess. Much more.

The evidence suggests we're spending more money now than when McCabe was alone in the chair, that much is clear to me but are we spending sufficient money to get the adequate players in to get us out of this league even though we get rid of our best players for more than adequate money?

And as for a club of our stature, i don't think we can be in much more of a mess league wise. Infact, i will go as far to say you won't see a ground that can get a crowd of 30 plus thousand in league 2, while i'm alive anyway.

 

[stringjunior]

Maybe notice the thread title and move along yourself if it doesn't interest you.

Ah right, so it's the thread title you take objection to. Nice one.

The thread title does interest me, and I don't take objection to it. But it doesn't interest me enough to give my opinion again - it's our collective ability to be genuinely objective about anything Blades related that I find difficult to square, as BushBlade put it rather well above

 

[Harry's Game]

Same goes for pretty much every player we sign. Sharp has scored 30-40 goals in this league and still only 29.
At times he looked like the only one who gave a shit today. And owned up to his failings after the Colchester game.

I know this is going off at tangent but do you think Sharp can play with Done? Sharp has always been better alongside a big target man, when Done comes back where does he play? I think Done is a better player with a longer future than Sharp but I can see us letting him go in Jan just to fit Sharp into a starting line up.

 

[PeteBlade]

I know this is going off at tangent but do you think Sharp can play with Done? Sharp has always been better alongside a big target man, when Done comes back where does he play? I think Done is a better player with a longer future than Sharp but I can see us letting him go in Jan just to fit Sharp into a starting line up.

Really not sure, I'm interested to see how they play together though.

I really like Done too and also hope we don't lose him.

 

[PeteBlade]

The thread title does interest me, and I don't take objection to it. But it doesn't interest me enough to give my opinion again - it's our collective ability to be genuinely objective about anything Blades related that I find difficult to square, as BushBlade put it rather well above

Ok, but I'd still be interested in any non objective, biased and emotionally effected opinions anyone has on the topic too...

 

[BushBlade]

The money started being shipped out when we sacked Weir. He had a 5 year contract or something didn't he? Can't have come cheap. Following on from that, I think they invested heavily when Clough was manager but that that was unfortunately squandered by, for the most part, poor signings we payed/ are paying well over the odds for, whether it be in fee's or wages. Hence why we're struggling to get rid of them now.

After deciding to sack Clough, a no doubt large sum of money was required to pay off Clough and his team and appoint Adkins, Wilkins and Crosby. That's probably a seasons investment at first team level in itself, purely on staff positions. But having said that, this should have been taken into consideration when making the decision to sack Clough. They must have weighed up whether or not it would be financially viable to sack Clough, appoint Adkins then still have enough available to invest in the team once more.

Therein lies the problem though, the task of investing now has been somewhat limited due to Clough's transfer dealings. It is a challenge to get rid of most of the rubbish he brought in. Despite the challenging nature, have the board and Adkins really made much of an effort at moving on a few players? It has come across entirely as if they haven't. To add to that, I have to say I'm not a fan of Adkins' transfers to date. His bit of paper with his transfer priority list marked must have been turned upside down.

Middle and last paragraphs. This is what I'm getting at. Who at the club is capable of assessing the financial viability of sacking Clough? Who could estimate what the cost of rebuilding the team would be?

And in modern football the manager doesn't usually have job of getting rid of players. Adkins should be giving a list of players to Brannigan and saying find these players new clubs.

We're run like a non-league club. You can't blame Adkins for that.

 

[Barney]

Middle and last paragraphs. This is what I'm getting at. Who at the club is capable of assessing the financial viability of sacking Clough? Who could estimate what the cost of rebuilding the team would be?

And in modern football the manager doesn't usually have job of getting rid of players. Adkins should be giving a list of players to Brannigan and saying find these players new clubs.

We're run like a non-league club. You can't blame Adkins for that.

If that was the case wouldn't we be having a head coach - director of football type thing going on?

Until then the manager has to take a large amount of responsibility for both incomings and outgoings. With the only input from the board being "this is our budget - go out and get who you feel best fits what we're trying to achieve".

It certainly came across like that was the case with Clough.

 

[BushBlade]

If that was the case wouldn't we be having a head coach - director of football type thing going on?

Until then the manager has to take a large amount of responsibility for both incomings and outgoings. With the only input from the board being "this is our budget - go out and get who you feel best fits what we're trying to achieve".

It certainly came across like that was the case with Clough.

Yes, exactly. We have two absentee owners represented by people who apparently were happy to let Clough sign several crocks and pay a ludicrous sum for a right back when we needed to strengthen in other areas.

Someone has to manage the manager or we will continually go through a boom and bust cycle of giving one manager more than we can afford and then the next being hampered by the excesses of his predecessor until we either drop lucky with a manager or get relegated.

 

[Barney]

Yes, exactly. We have two absentee owners represented by people who apparently were happy to let Clough sign several crocks and pay a ludicrous sum for a right back when we needed to strengthen in other areas.

Someone has to manage the manager or we will continually go through a boom and bust cycle of giving one manager more than we can afford and then the next being hampered by the excesses of his predecessor until we either drop lucky with a manager or get relegated.

Agree.

I wouldn't go entirely the way of head coach - director of football but I would certainly want someone to monitor the transfer dealings of the manager and make sure it best fits our priorities.

For example when Adkins was planning his move for Sharp and Sammon, a DOF could have stepped in and politely discussed whether or not it might be a better idea to go for outstanding areas of weakness first i.e centre back.

To add to that and make my opinion clearer (because I don't think I have thus far): whilst we have this system of dis-connect between manager and board, the manager has to take a large amount of responsibility.

If and when (as I think we definitely should) we move to a DOF type style with someone monitoring the manager, errors such as those created by Clough being let loose will be dramatically reduced and will prevent situations such as the one we find ourselves in now.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

For example when Adkins was planning his move for Sharp and Sammon, a DOF could have stepped in and politely discussed whether or not it might be a better idea to go for outstanding areas of weakness first i.e centre back.

Indeed. We might be then going into meltdown after another 0-0, having missed out on our targets up front. Comments would now have included: "we've yet again failed to sign a goalscorer in the summer – why didn't Adkins address this as the top priority when he came in?"

 

[Jan Age]

I don't know and don't care to know.

Instead of 'having to sell' we now 'couldn't stop the player wanting to leave'

All I want to see is 11. Players on the pitch wanting to play for the shirt. This isn't what I saw today.

I don't care if they cost nothing or £2 mil.

If I was really pushed I would say we do re-invest money from sales we make although not entirely in the first team.

I would say apart from paying off the losses each year (which is a large amount) the Prince hasn't spent a huge amount of his own money on transfer fees which is what I count as investment in the first team.

Either we're serious about promotion or we aren't if we are we should shut up talking about who we are going to sign and just sign them.

I've said it before; the reason we all get so easily agitated is because something doesn't quite feel right at the club... The sounds don't quite match the actions but you can't quite put your finger on why?

A bit like being in a relationship where you feel you something isn't right and then find out you're being cheated on.

 

[Barney]

Indeed. We might be then going into meltdown after another 0-0, having missed out on our targets up front. Comments would now have included: "we've yet again failed to sign a goalscorer in the summer – why didn't Adkins address this as the top priority when he came in?"

Other than the fact it was widely common knowledge that centre back was top priority, your point is a good one.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

McCabe gets bludgeoned over the head for the GCI comment, but I can see why he made it. As things stand, we are a stable club that despite years in this league still have funds to invest – notwithstanding the problems to get the specific targets we want to invest these in.

Prior to the Prince's arrival we had year-on-year cost-cutting that tried to cope with the continual annual losses the club makes. Wilson in season 2 was unable to offer Williamson the cash to stay, and we were barely able to agree with McDonald. The signings we were making were in the £0-300k market. This continued to the summer of season 3 where Weir was expected to fish about for scraps in the lower end of the market on low wages – McGinty and Jasper Johns for example. Meanwhile weren't we cutting staff in the non-footballing parts of the club, moving on individuals that had been at the Lane for years?

Then the Prince game in. We suddenly had the ability to invest, and quickly did so with no return. We then sacked Weir and his assistants, replaced with Clough and his entourage, and backed him with more investment that January. Last season we had funds to invest, signed some in the summer, and then blew all of the Maguire funds last January on Brayford & Done. This summer, despite our ridiculously bulky squad, we have added significantly while barely trimming any of it. We're still looking to invest even now, without actively looking to flog out more sellable squad members.

This might not be many fans' idea of "game-changing", but without the investment we would likely be an absolute mess. People might hate this league, but save for some horrendous mismanagement by a manager out of his depth we've been in no danger of a collapse financially or on a footballing side of things, while clubs like Pompey have plummeted and others like Coventry have gone through various off the field turmoil that's transferred onto the pitch. It's too easy to take what the Prince & Co have done for granted. If the Prince withdrew from the club tomorrow we would be royally fucked.

Great post.

 

[BushBlade]

Agree.

I wouldn't go entirely the way of head coach - director of football but I would certainly want someone to monitor the transfer dealings of the manager and make sure it best fits our priorities.

For example when Adkins was planning his move for Sharp and Sammon, a DOF could have stepped in and politely discussed whether or not it might be a better idea to go for outstanding areas of weakness first i.e centre back.

To add to that and make my opinion clearer (because I don't think I have thus far): whilst we have this system of dis-connect between manager and board, the manager has to take a large amount of responsibility.

If and when (as I think we definitely should) we move to a DOF type style with someone monitoring the manager, errors such as those created by Clough being let loose will be dramatically reduced and will prevent situations such as the one we find ourselves in now.

Well my ideal scenario would have been a DoF that had helped Adkins address all our weaknesses; up front, centre mid and centre half, whilst lining up a few deals to move on players we don't need (although most of those were either injured or covering injured players while the window was open so may have been between difficult and impossible to do so).

And if we'd had a DoF last season he would probably have stopped Clough from signing Coutts, Wallace and Brayford and encouraged him to sign players for positions we needed, who were fit enough to play and weren't too expensive for our budget.

Apart from that, absolutely agree.