Not the Result We Wanted, But...

[robbiez666]

I dont believe we are 4/5 players away from a promotion team. To say that after one game is ludicrous.

We need another CM, maybe another CB with experience and we really miss a wide man who just creates stuff on his own through beating a man.

But up to now the defence has looked reasonably solid. So if I could have one player only it would be a genuine goal threat at CM.

I you take into account the need to cover injury and suspensions and the inability to make short-term loans I think 4/5 is a minimum.

 

[Grizzly blade]

So you are basically saying Robbie, that next to none of the lads in the youth set up and reserves are good enough to step in and cover a few injuries and rest periods etc?

In that case we may as well bin the lot off.

I don't believe that, of course the more quality players you have the better your chances, but it's just not that simple. The players on the bench, and some from the youth set up have proven they can do a job in L1. What we need to be able to do is have sufficient ability to plug temporary gaps, and for me we have.
It's a clear first team we need, that is generally consistent in selection and formation.
Build that and we do what Burton and all those sides that have gone up instead of us have managed.

 

[robbiez666]

So you are basically saying Robbie, that next to none of the lads in the youth set up and reserves are good enough to step in and cover a few injuries and rest periods etc?

In that case we may as well bin the lot off.

I don't believe that, of course the more quality players you have the better your chances, but it's just not that simple. The players on the bench, and some from the youth set up have proven they can do a job in L1. What we need to be able to do is have sufficient ability to plug temporary gaps, and for me we have.
It's a clear first team we need, that is generally consistent in selection and formation.
Build that and we do what Burton and all those sides that have gone up instead of us have managed.

My memory is dubious but Ramsdale aside was there any of our youth set-up on the bench yesterday? Being kept out by the might of Coutts, Scougal and K Wallace.

It doesn't give me confidence to believe that Wilder rates them or is prepared to play them.

 

[Rodley]

I'm not being overly gloomy with this result, its an improvement on our start last season, however, it does highlight just how far we are away from being a squad capable of challenging realistically for the top two places.

We are very clearly 4 / 5 players short of a promotion side and I just hope that the Board wake up and recognise this and allow Tufty to do what he realises needs to be done. If we don't bring in some quality at GK, CH, CM, and LW then I suspect that we will be very inconsistent again and by Xmas, any thoughts of automatic promotion will be a distant dream, the same as last year.

We've been given a bit of a wake up here, the fans ( as usual ) have delivered the goods ........ over to the Board and Tufty !!

UTB & FTP

After one game you can assess the squad is a mile off?!

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

But it's the job of our creative players to find a way through that kind of defence. It's something we've faced a lot at this level. The lack of pace makes it more difficult.

If Bolton - who could be classed as favourites by some without ridicule - play a defensive game with one up front against us when they are at home it shows how the league will fear us this season and how we need to push them hard to expose that fear.

Some home games we will be lucky to see even one up front from the away team.

 

[ThroughThinAndThinner]

I dont believe we are 4/5 players away from a promotion team. To say that after one game is ludicrous.

We need another CM, maybe another CB with experience and we really miss a wide man who just creates stuff on his own through beating a man.

But up to now the defence has looked reasonably solid. So if I could have one player only it would be a genuine goal threat at CM.

I agree that 4/5 first team players aren't needed. A winger is key for me, followed by CM. Get those two in and we'd have a great chance, less vital for me would be a goalkeeper and CB, I don't rate Long but based on how defensive teams are likely to play against us and assuming we get sorted going forwards I think he'd do for this season.

That being said 4/5 signings isn't that extreme, we're very limited in back-ups.



Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Duffy ???? Fleck ???
Sharp Clarke

????
Freeman ??? Wright K.Wallace
Brooks Basham ??? ???
McNulty Done

Coutts could arguably fill in at CM and maybe Semple at CB if needed so 4-6 players needed in my opinion. Based on yesterday's performance Scougall isn't good enough.

 

[robbiez666]

I agree that 4/5 first team players aren't needed. A winger is key for me, followed by CM. Get those two in and we'd have a great chance, less vital for me would be a goalkeeper and CB, I don't rate Long but based on how defensive teams are likely to play against us and assuming we get sorted going forwards I think he'd do for this season.

That being said 4/5 signings isn't that extreme, we're very limited in back-ups.



Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Duffy ???? Fleck ???
Sharp Clarke

????
Freeman ??? Wright K.Wallace
Brooks Basham ??? ???
McNulty Done

Coutts could arguably fill in at CM and maybe Semple at CB if needed so 4-6 players needed in my opinion. Based on yesterday's performance Scougall isn't good enough.

The scary part comes if say Clarke, Fleck and O'Connell are injured at the same time.

As it stands it would leave:

Long
Brayford Wilson Wright Hussey
Duffy Basham Coutts Done
Sharp Adams

 

[larkymasher]

I think we are a couple of players short. my only issue is that if we expect to see a fully qualified centre back coming in then think again.
there is no way one will come in unless he is playing week in week out and has those assurances. CW doesn't give players that.

it will need to be a young player on loan or young Semple as 4th choice.

 

[Booker4]

I'm not being overly gloomy with this result, its an improvement on our start last season, however, it does highlight just how far we are away from being a squad capable of challenging realistically for the top two places.

We are very clearly 4 / 5 players short of a promotion side and I just hope that the Board wake up and recognise this and allow Tufty to do what he realises needs to be done. If we don't bring in some quality at GK, CH, CM, and LW then I suspect that we will be very inconsistent again and by Xmas, any thoughts of automatic promotion will be a distant dream, the same as last year.

We've been given a bit of a wake up here, the fans ( as usual ) have delivered the goods ........ over to the Board and Tufty !!

UTB & FTP

At this level mate, one really good signing, in any position makes a massive difference because no one generally blows teams away with big money signings. A quality left winger is top of my wish list but I don't think we're far off, its fine margins, and we'll definitely improve as things go on, that I'm sure of.

 

[robbiez666]

So you are basically saying Robbie, that next to none of the lads in the youth set up and reserves are good enough to step in and cover a few injuries and rest periods etc?

In that case we may as well bin the lot off.

I don't believe that, of course the more quality players you have the better your chances, but it's just not that simple. The players on the bench, and some from the youth set up have proven they can do a job in L1. What we need to be able to do is have sufficient ability to plug temporary gaps, and for me we have.
It's a clear first team we need, that is generally consistent in selection and formation.
Build that and we do what Burton and all those sides that have gone up instead of us have managed.

To answer you initial question.

I'd personally have Whiteman in ahead of Basham. Whiteman may or may not be the answer but Basham really isn't

 

[Barney]

What's happening with Brooks btw?

Wasn't given a squad number and wasn't in the squad yesterday but by all accounts impressed in pre-season?

 

[Darthblade]

I don't get who's been given a wake up? Has any poster on here said we don't need more players? I'm pretty sure everyone said we did so why is it such a surprise to lose an away game against a team that will be at the top end of the table this season?

The "wake up" is to the Board who appear to think that the current recruitment is "job done". Its nowhere near job done and I agree that most of the realistic posters plus most fans I speak to believe that we're still 4 / 5 decent players away from a realistic promotion squad.

My hope is that we don't fall into the trap of making do with what we've got until Xmas, which is the usual master plan at SUFC, because by then, as usual, too many points will have been dropped and top two places will be a distant dream.

UTB & FTP

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The "wake up" is to the Board who appear to think that the current recruitment is "job done". Its nowhere near job done and I agree that most of the realistic posters plus most fans I speak to believe that we're still 4 / 5 decent players away from a realistic promotion squad.

My hope is that we don't fall into the trap of making do with what we've got until Xmas, which is the usual master plan at SUFC, because by then, as usual, too many points will have been dropped and top two places will be a distant dream.

UTB & FTP

You expect a different plan?

 

[Darthblade]

I dont believe we are 4/5 players away from a promotion team. To say that after one game is ludicrous.

We need another CM, maybe another CB with experience and we really miss a wide man who just creates stuff on his own through beating a man.

But up to now the defence has looked reasonably solid. So if I could have one player only it would be a genuine goal threat at CM.

Sorry to disagree mate but I was predicting that we're 4/5 decent quality players short of a realistic promotion side before the Bolton loss, not after it. The current "first eleven" is not good enough and that's before we consider the lack of quality on the bench.

Long, Basham and Done are squad players, not starting eleven in a promotion squad and we desperately need some pace in a fairly pedestrian squad.

It is glaringly obvious that we need a big, strong, athletic CM who also is not afraid to shoot and a fast winger who can actually cross a ball into dangerous areas, plus an experienced keeper to teach George to communicate.

When you look at the bench, there is only Adams who has any quality and that won't sustain us through a long arduous season with injuries, suspensions and loss of form to cater for. Hence my assertion of needing 4/5 decent players.

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

You expect a different plan?

He he he ....... no, not at all !!

I don't expect a different plan at all, because its the tried and tested plan enacted by the Board of SUFC for the last 5 years and has consistently failed us since we fell into L1.

However, I would like the board to wake up and smell the coffee and to realise that this master plan has no merit and no hope of success. We don't need to spend millions to escape our self-imposed exile in this Division, but we do need to have the right players in key positions and be able to be consistent to grind out results in order to escape.

Its still early enough to make a good attempt at promotion ......... I'm hoping that we don't sleep walk into another frustrating and disappointing season .........

UTB & FTP

 

[Revolution]

When you look at the bench, there is only Adams who has any quality and that won't sustain us through a long arduous season with injuries, suspensions and loss of form to cater for. Hence my assertion of needing 4/5 decent playersUTB & FTP

Quite - Saturday's bench was Ramsdale, McNulty, Scougall, Adams, Wright, Coutts, K Wallace.

Leaving the keeper aside, and taking into account Adams has gone, there's not a lot of game changing quality there, is there?

I like McNulty more than most people and he has his uses as a sub (though he's similar to our first choice forwards). But the others? Heaven help us if we have to start Scougall and Coutts week in week out because of injuries.

We are a long way away from a promotion winning squad. And the idea that we will bring in 4 or 5 in the next 3 weeks sounds laughable to anyone who is familiar with the way we are run.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Sorry to disagree mate but I was predicting that we're 4/5 decent quality players short of a realistic promotion side before the Bolton loss, not after it. The current "first eleven" is not good enough and that's before we consider the lack of quality on the bench.

Long, Basham and Done are squad players, not starting eleven in a promotion squad and we desperately need some pace in a fairly pedestrian squad.

It is glaringly obvious that we need a big, strong, athletic CM who also is not afraid to shoot and a fast winger who can actually cross a ball into dangerous areas, plus an experienced keeper to teach George to communicate.

When you look at the bench, there is only Adams who has any quality and that won't sustain us through a long arduous season with injuries, suspensions and loss of form to cater for. Hence my assertion of needing 4/5 decent players.

UTB & FTP

Fair enough mate, I was maybe reacting to the many over reactions I had read.
Agree that we don't have big game changing players on the bench. But looking at it, most of them are more than capable league one players able to do a good job.
We have gone down the route of trying to build a big squad with back up for every position and the club was chastised for a very large, unsensational yet expensive squad.

We can't and won't repeat that, so we need to have spaces available for young players or there is simply no point in having them or ultimately an academy.
To me, we need a clear first team. A clear set of 13 that stand out as the best in the club. We then need some luck to see consistencies with fitness and injury. So we put together a plan of getting the best players we can AFFORD to make one team.
Wee then need to trust the others to step up and do a job when needed.

I look at other clubs and other squads. I see Burton going up last season with nothing special in their side. I see Scunny looking good with again no outstanding players in the team. I then look at our individual side from Saturday and say are each player in those positions in the top 5 players in the division for their position.
For me...Brayford, Hussey, Clarke, Sharp, fleck, Duffy certainly are. O'Connell certainly clould be, while the much maligned Long is easily up in the top 10 too IMHO. Bash for all his lack of goals and finesse makes up for it in other areas and again would walk into many other sides in the division.

It is perhaps too much to expect to have the best players in the division for every position. It will take time to build that, so in the meantime we really need to have a consistent selection and build a well drilled and organised team to get the most out of what we have.
I'm not saying no more players, just one or two in the right areas. Agree a genuine skillful and pacy winger would do wonders, along with a midfield player capable of complimenting Fleck (who I really think is a top player BTW). We need more players to chip in with goals if we are going to go up, we can't rely on strikers.

 

[Bergen Blade]

When sides come to sit deep and frustrate we will indeed need to find a way of dealing with it.
And the only way is quality crosses and the ability to shoot from outside the box.

That has been our nemesis for years.

So we will hopefully be looking for that goal scoring midfielder who always at least hits the target, while practising putting the bloody ball in the net A LOT!

Our U23s managed some good shots the other day: