Norwood Odds for Another on Friday.

[pommpey]

I'm not sure what point you're making here.

This was Duffy's heatmap the season we went up:
View attachment 134817

And this is Norwood's for this season:
View attachment 134819

Compeletely different roles and positions. Norwood could play in Duffy's role; but that's like saying that Egan could play upfront. It doesn't make sense when it doesn't play into any of his strengths.

"He does nothing of the sort when compared with the cool control and advancing of Basham, the threat that MGW causes and the battling that Billy Sharp does."

Norwood plays a lot deeper than both Gibbs-White and Sharp, and his central position doesn't allow for the runs that Basham goes on- none of those three are comparable players.

So I guess the conclusion that we've got here is that attacking players are more attacking than he is. No shit; he's a defensive midfielder. Even if he were physically capable of going on runs it would leave our defence woefully exposed.

The more direct comparison you could make is with Fleck:
View attachment 134820
Norwood clearly has more of the ball, covers a much larger area of the pitch- and plays a much deeper role. If we want to dive into specific stats he's also among the best in the league for the stats that directly relate to the holding role that he plays.

Yes, he is not a goalscorer; but he outperforms a lot of players who play in a similar role to him- including £25m Jefferson Lerma (who has also scored 1 goal and got 3 assists- but has created half the amount of total chances). It's been really interesting seeing how well the stats back up Norwood in comparison to similar players at other clubs, (as opposed to arbitrary comparisons to strikers and attacking midfielders)- particularly as I didn't and don't think he's been particularly outstanding this season.


"Norwood could do Duffy's role. Instead he's more comfortable spraying airborne missiles out wide into an area where oppositions just kill us off."

Norwood can definitely have frustrating games, and he can be ineffective at times; but you can't saddle him with blame for when other players underperform. If he puts in a decent corner and Egan heads it wide; or if a long ball to Baldock get's ineffectively passed around until it comes to nothing then the blame is not with Norwood- it's whoever has made the mistakes later on.

I imagine you'd expect Norwood to put in a corner and then sprint at breakneck speed into the box to score an overhead volley from his own corner kick; and even then he'd not be doing enough.

The point is that as the heatmap suggests, he sits too deep reliant upon his one-note song in that he whumps it long and wide to an area where it is clearly going to get shut down and killed off. What Norwood doesn't do is move through the midfield either stealing yards of the opposition or playing clever one twos and moving up the pitch in a central role. Nope. He gets it off the back three and immediately he's ratcheting his foot back and the opposition are moving across there to catch the wingback.

So predictable.

And I'd rather have Lerma there to be honest because he does have more in his bag than a crowd pleasing thump across the pitch.

My point comparing him to Basham, MGW and Sharp was that when they don't play, the onfield performance suffers massively

pommpey

 

[tyke1889]

I imagine you'd expect Norwood to put in a corner and then sprint at breakneck speed into the box to score an overhead volley from his own corner kick; and even then he'd not be doing enough.

It can be done, I saw Raven on the Wing do it once

 

[JayGreen17]

I'm not sure what point you're making here.

This was Duffy's heatmap the season we went up:
View attachment 134817

And this is Norwood's for this season:
View attachment 134819

Compeletely different roles and positions. Norwood could play in Duffy's role; but that's like saying that Egan could play upfront. It doesn't make sense when it doesn't play into any of his strengths.

"He does nothing of the sort when compared with the cool control and advancing of Basham, the threat that MGW causes and the battling that Billy Sharp does."

Norwood plays a lot deeper than both Gibbs-White and Sharp, and his central position doesn't allow for the runs that Basham goes on- none of those three are comparable players.

So I guess the conclusion that we've got here is that attacking players are more attacking than he is. No shit; he's a defensive midfielder. Even if he were physically capable of going on runs it would leave our defence woefully exposed.

The more direct comparison you could make is with Fleck:
View attachment 134820
Norwood clearly has more of the ball, covers a much larger area of the pitch- and plays a much deeper role. If we want to dive into specific stats he's also among the best in the league for the stats that directly relate to the holding role that he plays.

Yes, he is not a goalscorer; but he outperforms a lot of players who play in a similar role to him- including £25m Jefferson Lerma (who has also scored 1 goal and got 3 assists- but has created half the amount of total chances). It's been really interesting seeing how well the stats back up Norwood in comparison to similar players at other clubs, (as opposed to arbitrary comparisons to strikers and attacking midfielders)- particularly as I didn't and don't think he's been particularly outstanding this season.


"Norwood could do Duffy's role. Instead he's more comfortable spraying airborne missiles out wide into an area where oppositions just kill us off."

Norwood can definitely have frustrating games, and he can be ineffective at times; but you can't saddle him with blame for when other players underperform. If he puts in a decent corner and Egan heads it wide; or if a long ball to Baldock get's ineffectively passed around until it comes to nothing then the blame is not with Norwood- it's whoever has made the mistakes later on.

I imagine you'd expect Norwood to put in a corner and then sprint at breakneck speed into the box to score an overhead volley from his own corner kick; and even then he'd not be doing enough.

You can’t argue with Pommpey on here, didn’t you know it’s the law….

 

[Webding]

Blimey, it would appear that some of you really don’t like Norwood very much.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

That team of the season now: fair to say there was some talent in the Championship that year.

Pantilimon: currently a free agent having left Denilizspor in Turkey. Had his Forest contract terminated in September 2020 when it had 9 months to run.
James: first choice right back for current European champions Chelsea. Widely lauded as one of the best young players in his position in world football
Cooper: first choice centre half for Leeds in the Premier League
Webster: first choice centre half for Brighton in the Premier League
Pedersen: still, somehow, at Birmingham. Contract expires at the end of this season and he would be a good option to replace Stevens
Buendia: gone to Villa, £30m
Grealish: gone from Villa, £100m. Most expensive ever British player
Norwood: still at United
Lolley: still at Forest but has become a substitute following a knee injury
Abraham: £34m signing for Roma last summer, linked with a £50m+ move back to the Premier League
Jutkiewicz: still at Birmingham for whom he's scored twice this season

When i saw he was in the team of the season 18/19 and will become a free agent at the end of this season i too thought gerrim signed.

 

[NuddysGloves]

I'm not sure what point you're making here.

This was Duffy's heatmap the season we went up:
View attachment 134817

And this is Norwood's for this season:
View attachment 134819

Compeletely different roles and positions. Norwood could play in Duffy's role; but that's like saying that Egan could play upfront. It doesn't make sense when it doesn't play into any of his strengths.

"He does nothing of the sort when compared with the cool control and advancing of Basham, the threat that MGW causes and the battling that Billy Sharp does."

Norwood plays a lot deeper than both Gibbs-White and Sharp, and his central position doesn't allow for the runs that Basham goes on- none of those three are comparable players.

So I guess the conclusion that we've got here is that attacking players are more attacking than he is. No shit; he's a defensive midfielder. Even if he were physically capable of going on runs it would leave our defence woefully exposed.

The more direct comparison you could make is with Fleck:
View attachment 134820
Norwood clearly has more of the ball, covers a much larger area of the pitch- and plays a much deeper role. If we want to dive into specific stats he's also among the best in the league for the stats that directly relate to the holding role that he plays.

Yes, he is not a goalscorer; but he outperforms a lot of players who play in a similar role to him- including £25m Jefferson Lerma (who has also scored 1 goal and got 3 assists- but has created half the amount of total chances). It's been really interesting seeing how well the stats back up Norwood in comparison to similar players at other clubs, (as opposed to arbitrary comparisons to strikers and attacking midfielders)- particularly as I didn't and don't think he's been particularly outstanding this season.


"Norwood could do Duffy's role. Instead he's more comfortable spraying airborne missiles out wide into an area where oppositions just kill us off."

Norwood can definitely have frustrating games, and he can be ineffective at times; but you can't saddle him with blame for when other players underperform. If he puts in a decent corner and Egan heads it wide; or if a long ball to Baldock get's ineffectively passed around until it comes to nothing then the blame is not with Norwood- it's whoever has made the mistakes later on.

I imagine you'd expect Norwood to put in a corner and then sprint at breakneck speed into the box to score an overhead volley from his own corner kick; and even then he'd not be doing enough.

Out of interest when you were looking at Norwood's stats what came up about his tackling? I always see comments on here saying he can't make a tackle but I think he's done quite well this season, certainly seems to get more tackles in than our other midfielders, particularly Fleck who I never see criticised for the same?!

 

[Willglynning]

Out of interest when you were looking at Norwood's stats what came up about his tackling? I always see comments on here saying he can't make a tackle but I think he's done quite well this season, certainly seems to get more tackles in than our other midfielders, particularly Fleck who I never see criticised for the same?!

We're not a particularly tackling team on the whole. In terms of average number of tackles per game Norwood is 5th, behind Basham, RND, Bogle & Uremovic (though Uremovic has obviously got a lot fewer games to draw this average from than the others). He's also 5th in terms of average number of interceptions per game.

It's quite a simplistic point to measure, and it's not like these stats tell the whole story- but it's interesting that he's higher than a lot of players I'd have expected to be well above him.


I'm not sure what metric they use to determine total player ratings, but the website I sourced these stats from surprisingly has him ranked as number 1 out of our squad, and 5th in the whole Championship. To some degree it must be weighted in terms of stats relative to position- but it does show that of all our players he's been one of the most consistent performers.

I think that the role Norwood plays is open to a lot more scrutiny than others in the team- and this has been the case for countless others who have played a deeper midfield role for this club over the years. People tend to not really notice the good stuff unless it's something truly spectacular, but conversely any bad stuff really stands out.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Out of interest when you were looking at Norwood's stats what came up about his tackling? I always see comments on here saying he can't make a tackle but I think he's done quite well this season, certainly seems to get more tackles in than our other midfielders, particularly Fleck who I never see criticised for the same?!

Tackles per game this season for those who’ve played in centre midfield:

Fleck: 1.1
Gibbs-White: 0.8
Hourihane: 1.0
Berge: 1.1
Osborn: 1.4
Norwood: 1.9

 

[brownblade]

Odds on any of these miserable fans ever being optimistic about anything?

 

[Cheesebored]

We're not a particularly tackling team on the whole. In terms of average number of tackles per game Norwood is 5th, behind Basham, RND, Bogle & Uremovic (though Uremovic has obviously got a lot fewer games to draw this average from than the others). He's also 5th in terms of average number of interceptions per game.

It's quite a simplistic point to measure, and it's not like these stats tell the whole story- but it's interesting that he's higher than a lot of players I'd have expected to be well above him.


I'm not sure what metric they use to determine total player ratings, but the website I sourced these stats from surprisingly has him ranked as number 1 out of our squad, and 5th in the whole Championship. To some degree it must be weighted in terms of stats relative to position- but it does show that of all our players he's been one of the most consistent performers.

I think that the role Norwood plays is open to a lot more scrutiny than others in the team- and this has been the case for countless others who have played a deeper midfield role for this club over the years. People tend to not really notice the good stuff unless it's something truly spectacular, but conversely any bad stuff really stands out.

For his size he also wins more headers than he loses, or so it would appear.

 

[Willglynning]

For his size he also wins more headers than he loses, or so it would appear.

He wins 62% of them!

 

[Swannyblade]

You are way off the mark here bud -Norwood came in in September at the back end of the Transfer window we had started pretty poorly as you know -he made his debut against Hull in that silly cup competition and it was clear here was the replacement for Coutts that we had so missed . And so it proved pal as he was an integral part of the evolution to the system that brought some much joy that season.

#Facts!

Norwood was the missing piece that got us promoted that season.

He's still a very good Championship player today. Unfortunately for Ollie, if the rest of the team are under performing it leaves him terribly exposed and open to criticism. I will concede that he's probably too weak and slow to consistently cut it at Premier League level. However we have been guilty of not providing a midfield to compliment his game. We've been crying out for an energetic, strong, box-to-box type midfielder for some time. Indeed when Norwood was playing at his best in the Prem, it was when we had peak Lundstram at the side of him charging up and down the pitch (a memory that seems like a fever dream now). I'm assuming that was the intent behind our interest in Ronaldo Vieira last summer. Norwood, Fleck, Hourihane & Berge (to some extent) make for a rather pedestrian and passive midfield...Sludge-Runners if you like (TM Tufty Club)