Next season yes or no?

[Darren]

If we do qualify for Europe, we'll go out at the qualifying stage. We might get four games.

I don't see why hoping for a top two position next season is unreasonable. As Clough's ideas have settled and his squad has started to take shape we've been consistently around the top of the form table. As noted above: all we need is a right back (Freeman) and a centre forward (maybe Alex Niemley from Man City - he's out of contract and at 23 needs to find a club for regular first team football).

Frankly, given their resources compared to their competitors (with Wolves going up we will have far and away the biggest crowds in the division), Sheffield United should always be expecting automatic promotion as long as they are in the Third Division. Doesn't mean we will get it, but saying stuff like "we need to build slowly and we might make the play offs" is just selling ourselves short.

 

[yuley82]

I do have an issue with this, and feel it's quite condescending. People look at the attendances of the clubs around us and think that we will automatically have a better team because we hae bigger attendances. Look at Yeovil last year, or orient this year. For that matter, we were sat below every team in this division over a period around christmas. If we want to get out of this division we need to treat these clubs as equals and peers. Let's say Barnsley, Yeovil and charlton come down, they will be relegated with championship squads, hence a better squad than ours. We need serious improvement from our mid-table squad to get to the top of this division.

Attendances have no bearing what so ever on promotion or relegation. The teams relegated will be so because there squad wasn't good enough for the championship and maybe there better players will be picked up because they won't be able to sustain their current budgets, especially the dingles and Yeovil. So with 3-4 good additions and keep the core of our squad I don't see much threat to us next season.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Frankly, given their resources compared to their competitors (with Wolves going up we will have far and away the biggest crowds in the division), Sheffield United should always be expecting automatic promotion as long as they are in the Third Division. Doesn't mean we will get it, but saying stuff like "we need to build slowly and we might make the play offs" is just selling ourselves short.

Any manager who 'makes the play offs' next season will have failed.

Next seasons target is automatic, nothing less.

 

[Zanzibar]

At the start of the season all teams are equal.
Some teams however are more equal than others.
That's where we step in.

 

[Darren]

Attendances have no bearing what so ever on promotion or relegation. The teams relegated will be so because there squad wasn't good enough for the championship and maybe there better players will be picked up because they won't be able to sustain their current budgets, especially the dingles and Yeovil. So with 3-4 good additions and keep the core of our squad I don't see much threat to us next season.

I think you will find that there is a strong correlation between the number of supporters a team has and how successful it is. Which is obvious - more supporters = more income = higher wages = better players. Obviously that doesn't hold 100%, but in the long term Man Utd will do better than Hull and Sheffield United than Yeovil.

 

[Tezza1889]

I think everybody knows what we have to do, because utd going up in the playoffs will probably never happen, we need to finish top 2..

This season is job done, so I think after the semi, nigel will be on the planning mission regarding players..

We need to be buying players who will comfortably manage championship football, because if we do go up, we're gonna need em anyway arn't we?

There will be a decent clear out..

And then.. quality signings.

Centre half, possibly 2 should harry go (expect this).
Proper strikers 2.
Goalkeeper unless howard re signs (good enough for next season)
Right back.
Midfield playmaker..

Between 7-10 signings could be needed should we lose harry, brayford, and coady, I expect all of them to be playing in a higher division next season..

Summers gonna be fun, let's see if the hrh and kmc can keep their end of the deal up, and back the manager where it really counts..

 

[Highbury_Blade]

If we aren't building a squad to win the division next season then frankly what is the prince on board for?

I'll be expecting top 2, nothing less given the money we have banked from out FA cup exploits.

Whether it's Nigel's or the board's fault if we don't achieve automatic remains to be seen.

 

[blader]

If we aren't building a squad to win the division next season then frankly what is the prince on board for?

I'll be expecting top 2, nothing less given the money we have banked from out FA cup exploits.

Whether it's Nigel's or the board's fault if we don't achieve automatic remains to be seen.

So if we don't go up next season will you be wanting Clough sacked?

 

[Tezza1889]

Attendences, these go hand in hand with great players on the pitch.

Great teams, these happen because you have great players.

Sucess, that happens because you have a great team, manager and backroom staff.

Full houses, this happens when you have a team of great players having sucess on the pitch..

Put the players on the pitch, its simple really..

If they're serious about getting up the leagues, and making a few quid, get quality on the pitch, rest will fall into place..

 

[Highbury_Blade]

So if we don't go up next season will you be wanting Clough sacked?

Did you read the last sentence?

 

[jezzablade]

In my view we will now lose Maguire (hopefully not to Hull but if they offer the most then it has to be them), Brayford will not stay its 50/50 with Coady. This is not all doom and gloom. We will still have Scoogs, Baxter, Collins I think we will keep Flynn and Murphy but not sure. We can keep Harris if he wants to stay. We still have McGinn and Doyle is starting to be really effective under Clough. Also Davies may stay as well which helps cover lots of positions or just midfield.
But think about the make up of the board now. The Prince and Jim Phipps don't want to hang around too long in this division and it is the stated aim to getting promoted asap. Also the FFP will help us as we have made a lot of revenue this year from the cup run and the decent crowds that we have got considering our predicament.
In summary we have a decent nucleus, 80% of a very good revenue allowed to be spent on wages, if Maguire does go then a few million to strengthen the squad and a decent directorship and club management team. Even if Harry goes we still have Kennedy coming through (not that I want Harry to go I just think he can't hang around Div 1 anymore). And finally the system that produced Harry with probably the best boss in the country at bringing on young talent.
My glass is half full for the first time in my life for next season.

 

[blader]

Did you read the last sentence?

Ok sorry, let me rephrase the question. If we fail to be promoted and you deem it Clough's fault, would you want him sacked?

I say it that way because it's never unanimous, some would blame the board some would blame Clough.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Ok sorry, let me rephrase the question. If we fail to be promoted and you deem it Clough's fault, would you want him sacked?

I say it that way because it's never unanimous, some would blame the board some would blame Clough.

If the board have given him their backing and gave him resources comparable to those that were given to Robson (relative to the division we are in) and he fails to get us promoted, then why would we want to stick with him?

 

[JohnDenver]

Ok sorry, let me rephrase the question. If we fail to be promoted and you deem it Clough's fault, would you want him sacked?

I say it that way because it's never unanimous, some would blame the board some would blame Clough.

Billy Davies is a good case in point. Forest were in the hunt for automatic promotion but an horrendous set of injuries and results saw him binned. His charming personality wouldn't have helped, but it's a fact that a manager needs to be lucky as well as good.

Clough hasn't put a foot wrong so far but high expectations can quickly become toxic.

 

[Bladepicker]

You should always look to improve on the previous season, especially if you're in the same league. Lets see where we finish then make an assessment.

Agree with you on the player front!

Not only will the loans go back and some of the likes of Harry potentially leaving, we also have the below contract situations to sort out:

Expiring:
Hill
Howard
Flynn
Kennedy
Harris
Johns

Expiring but a years option:
Miller
Porter

Providing no contracts are renewed and no one is sold and options are taken on Miller and Porter, the squad will look thus:

GK
Long
Willis

DF
Maguire
Collins
McGinty

MF
Doyle
McGinn
Scougall
Murphy
Brandy
Cuvelier
McFadzean (unsure if Out of Contract)
Whitehouse (unsure if Out of Contract)

ST
Porter
Miller
Baxter
Taylor
Eyre
De Girolamo

I expect renewals to be offered to Flynn, Howard, Kennedy and Harris. I think Hill will be let go as Clough likes to use the young boys and Kennedy has been more involved.

There's the youngsters, Khan, Hodder and Dimaio as well, who've been bench warmers this season.

I've assumed options will be taken on Miller and Porter, but Clough may decide to start fresh up front, depending on resources available to him.

whatever happens, I think we're in for an interesting summer. I'm sure Clough and his scouts are already working on things!

Pretty certain we have a further year option on Flynn and Howard which will both be taken.

I think Brandy will be moved on as will Cuvelier once fit (prob on loan) due to their attitudes more than anything else (unless they totally change in pre season).

Holding onto Maguire will be the hardest thing this summer I fear.

Still think of he goes - with Clough's track record of spotting and signing players, both here and in his time at Burton and Derby - I am confident we will have ateam capable of finishing top two next year.

that's if we don't get play offs this year - win tonight and....

 

[Darren]

If the board have given him their backing and gave him resources comparable to those that were given to Robson (relative to the division we are in) and he fails to get us promoted, then why would we want to stick with him?

I think it depends, as you say, primarily on what resources he gets but other factors can play a part as well. Wilson was given lots of resources in 2011-12 and got us enough points that would have seen us first or second in any other third tier season ever. However, a freak set of circumstances (two other teams even better than that and Ched) saw us fail to get promoted. Given those circumstances, I don't think anyone would call for a manager to be sacked.

The rug was pulled from under Wilson, resources wise in 2012-13, yet we still had automatic in our own hands when he was sacked. Now that was a lunatic decision - only the akin to giving a alcoholic the run of a brewery for 24 hours decision of appointing Robson and giving him tons of cash beats it.

 

[Bladepicker]

I do have an issue with this, and feel it's quite condescending. People look at the attendances of the clubs around us and think that we will automatically have a better team because we hae bigger attendances. Look at Yeovil last year, or orient this year. For that matter, we were sat below every team in this division over a period around christmas. If we want to get out of this division we need to treat these clubs as equals and peers. Let's say Barnsley, Yeovil and charlton come down, they will be relegated with championship squads, hence a better squad than ours. We need serious improvement from our mid-table squad to get to the top of this division.

I think it will be a weaker league next year - not due to the size of the clubs but their respective squads and financial constraints. That is where the size of a club can effect things this level - the reduced income can mean they cannot sustain a championship wage bill.

Wolves still had parachute payments - them going up definitely weakens the league as Preston going up through the play offs. Orient and Rotherham have small squads and are unlikely to have as good season's next year if they stay down.

I thnk Yeovil and Barnsley will come down - both with reltively poor squads (best players are loaned in) and therefore I think it is safe to say next years league will be poorer as a result.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

The rug was pulled from under Wilson, resources wise in 2012-13, yet we still had automatic in our own hands when he was sacked. Now that was a lunatic decision - only the akin to giving a alcoholic the run of a brewery for 24 hours decision of appointing Robson and giving him tons of cash beats it.

careful......

 

[Darren]

careful......

I think that's what you called a Freudian slip....

How about akin to giving a druggie the run of the pharmacy?

 

[wizadry]

Doesn't mean we will get it, but saying stuff like "we need to build slowly and we might make the play offs" is just selling ourselves short.

Totally agree daz, ill tell you what lets wait till we die then get out of this shit league when we are not here to see it,great idea eh,any fcuking slower we will be in reverse

 

[JJBlade]

It's time for the club to do some talking off the pitch.
Get our best players on longer deals like Murphy, Maguire, Flynn, Baxter and then go all out to get Brayford and Coady and a proven, strong, quick, agile, mobile goal scorer. I'd rather a smaller squad with better quality and a few young uns getting a chance during period of injuries and suspensions than 30 hanger ons that aren't good enough.

It's no good constantly banging on about wages, footballers earn big wages, it's as simple as that.
Monkeys earn peanuts, and if you buy for peanuts you'll find that 99% of them turn out to be monkeys. We've wasted more money using this method than what we would have if we'd just signed good players when we were in the Premier League.

Getting promoted next year is absolutely vital, we haven't got the time to stay in this division any longer than next season, but if promoted we also need the nucleus of the squad to be good enough to perform in the Championship as well.

 

[Grecian2000]

Given a half decent summer I'm certain I'll be more confident going into next season than any recent summer!

A good start, no "resignation" from the League Cup like recent seasons (and in Clough I think we'll have someone who won't be complacent about it) , and I think it'll be all to play for.

 

[Sheff de party]

If we do qualify for Europe, we'll go out at the qualifying stage. We might get four games.
.

We go into the group stages if we win the cup, which we could do. If we don't, it looks like we'd get a 2 game playoff against someone. Spurs got Dinamo Tblisi, who's to say we couldn't do them over 2 games and potential players would be looking to sign in July or August, when the chance of a place in the groups was very much on the table.

 

[Darren]

We go into the group stages if we win the cup, which we could do. If we don't, it looks like we'd get a 2 game playoff against someone. Spurs got Dinamo Tblisi, who's to say we couldn't do them over 2 games and potential players would be looking to sign in July or August, when the chance of a place in the groups was very much on the table.

If we don't win the cup we have to get through the third qualifying round and the play off round to get to the group stage and would most likely face teams in those two rounds from countries ranked 20-25 - i.e. Norway, Sweden, Romania and so on. I have posted elswehere about this.

I think the chances are we would not get through to the group stages, but I reckon the top teams from those countries are probably no better than English second tier standard, so we would have a fighting chance.

 

[yuley82]

W

I think you will find that there is a strong correlation between the number of supporters a team has and how successful it is. Which is obvious - more supporters = more income = higher wages = better players. Obviously that doesn't hold 100%, but in the long term Man Utd will do better than Hull and Sheffield United than Yeovil.

It's not seemed to have helped us!!

 

[Bladesman]

We haven't had much success with that in recent years.

2008-09: 3rd (Championship)
2009-10: 8th (Championship)
2010-11: 22nd (Championship)
2011-12: 3rd (League One)
2012-13: 5th (League One)
2013-14: 5th > (League One)

If we finish lower next season than we do this, we'll break the club record for consecutively worse finishes.

A year on year decline since the season in the sun.

Portsmouth have been able to do that much quicker.

 

[Darren]

A year on year decline since the season in the sun.

Portsmouth have been able to do that much quicker.

Note quite. We were 9th in the 2nd Tier in 2008 and then 3rd in 2009. It's after that the decline started.

The record consectuvive decline is as follows:

1975 6th D1
1976 22nd D1
1977 11th D2
1978 12th D2
1979 20th D2
1980 12th D3
1981 21st D3
1982 1st D4

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I think you will find that there is a strong correlation between the number of supporters a team has and how successful it is. Which is obvious - more supporters = more income = higher wages = better players. Obviously that doesn't hold 100%, but in the long term Man Utd will do better than Hull and Sheffield United than Yeovil.

With some amusing current exceptions of course.

The footballing giants of Wednesday, Leeds and Forest have a current combined total of 39 seasons without Premier League football.

While the minnows of Stoke, Swansea and Fulham have a current combined total of 21 seasons in the Premier League.

 

[Darren]

With some amusing current exceptions of course.

The footballing giants of Wednesday, Leeds and Forest have a current combined total of 39 seasons without Premier League football.

While the minnows of Stoke, Swansea and Fulham have a current combined total of 21 seasons in the Premier League.

Well yes. The exception applies when clubs get too big for their boots and spend money they don't have and are thus in penury for years afterwards.

 

[JohnDenver]

Well yes. The exception applies when clubs get too big for their boots and spend money they don't have and are thus in penury for years afterwards.

The sky is full of bubbles waiting to burst.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26813363