New manager...who would you get?

[Pinchy]

Weir needs to be given time to develop the style/first 11 he needs to win matches. Rome wasn't built in a day.

But just for sake of argument:

Realistic: Gus Poyet, Karl Robinson, Stuart Mcall

Pie in the sky: Jose fucking Mourinho.

Someone said Roy Keane earlier, that made me laugh.

The Jamie Murphy of management?

 

[BladeFisher]

Quite right. We have to change the players. I'm fed up with the circular philosophy of despair that says 'these players aren't good enough to play proper football, so find a system to suit them'. Bollocks to that. It's a recipe for eternal Hoof. Quality players not signed because they won't fit the non-football system - the non-football is perpetuated.

We need to break the stranglehold that non-football has on our club. It will obviously take a little pain, but My God, if ever we had a chance to rid ourself of our thoroughly deserved and shameful reputation then HRH has provided it.

Sadly, we have some of the worst fans in football; lacking both intelligence and bottle.

So until we sold Blackman, we may have been on course for a play off place last season and Wilson may have kept his job. As it was we did get into the play offs but where were the goals to come from?

Your answer then is to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on shipping 20 odd pros out of the club because they are all hoof merchants? Well they weren't playing hoof when I saw them at Brunton Park last season I'll tell yer.

The whole point of this Weir discussion is that he has given no indication that he has a plan B or prepared to modify his plans. And that is it.

No one is disagreeing with his philosophy on football, but at the moment it is ineffective and his management/coaching team seem unable to effect a change. That is the problem. If he continues he'll be out.

This post is based on the 'cruel' assumption he won't change/effect improved results. We don't I think wish that on him but if he doesn't he's toast.

 

[alcoblade]

Quite right. We have to change the players. I'm fed up with the circular philosophy of despair that says 'these players aren't good enough to play proper football, so find a system to suit them'. Bollocks to that. It's a recipe for eternal Hoof. Quality players not signed because they won't fit the non-football system - the non-football is perpetuated.

We need to break the stranglehold that non-football has on our club. It will obviously take a little pain, but My God, if ever we had a chance to rid ourself of our thoroughly deserved and shameful reputation then HRH has provided it.

Sadly, we have some of the worst fans in football; lacking both intelligence and bottle.

Nonsense. We've had 2 years expelling hoof. It's an excuse.

You are, as always, making the sweeping generalisation that the only way to avoid playing like Wimbledon of the 80's is the try and play like the Swansea of today.

We could try playing a style that suits our current abilities (not hoof, we'd be even worse if we tried), and gradually move as the playing staff allows. A bit like every team we come up against, who don't hoof it, yet somehow manage to play effective football, on a third of our budget, and come away with the points and entertainment every week.

I am for giving the manager time. He HAS to show that he has the ability to manage with what is playing out in front of him (like Evans did on Saturday), not based on a eutopian dream of where he's heading. He's failing to show any credentials for that, and it's starting to look bleak.

No predictions for the next mnanager for me. I'm behind Weir for now. Score so far - 2/10. He is at least bringing in the right type of player.

None fo it will matter - if he doesn't improve in the next 10 he's gone.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

Nonsense. We've had 2 years expelling hoof. It's an excuse.

You are, as always, making the sweeping generalisation that the only way to avoid playing like Wimbledon of the 80's is the try and play like the Swansea of today.

We could try playing a style that suits our current abilities (not hoof, we'd be even worse if we tried), and gradually move as the playing staff allows. A bit like every team we come up against, who don't hoof it, yet somehow manage to play effective football, on a third of our budget, and come away with the points and entertainment every week.

I am for giving the manager time. He HAS to show that he has the ability to manage with what is playing out in front of him (like Evans did on Saturday), not based on a eutopian dream of where he's heading. He's failing to show any credentials for that, and it's starting to look bleak.

No predictions for the next mnanager for me. I'm behind Weir for now. Score so far - 2/10. He is at least bringing in the right type of player.

None fo it will matter - if he doesn't improve in the next 10 he's gone.

UTB

We've played football for 720 minutes, 12 hours, this season, and have managed to score once from open play. It was some great ten seconds, but it's not enough.

I don't want Weir replaced, I want him to get it right. On this message board many fans have suggested a few tweaks, while others apparantly can see nothing wrong with the current playing style. Things are apparantly working perfectly, just according to plan.

 

[botoble]

Do not like chopping and changing managers all the time, however people criticising people for talking of a new manager is even worse than calling for his head! Sheffield united have 4 points from 6 games in the third tier of english football having scored 5 and conceded 11? People who are not asking questions about the manager should think seriously! Blackwell almost got us playoffs after brian robsons stint, then got us play off final in championship season after followed by 8th in the league just missing out on playoffs and was sacked after a 1-1 with cardiff a league cup defeat to hartlepool and a 3-0 loss to QPR.....thats 3 seasons of respectable management and then sacked after 3 bad perfomances, we have had 8 matches in all competitions so far this season and 1 win with a good performance based around a player our so called promotion rivals use to warm up their bench!

serious improvement in next 3 matches, performance and result wise or definate change is required.

 

[Balham]

In answer to the OP, I'd choose David Weir. Quite what anyone thinks that any other manager would get out of this squad is beyond me.

The main issue seems to be confidence and leadership. As soon as one goal goes in, the heads seem to drop and it's game over.

The senior players - I'm looking at you, Neill Collins, and you, Michael Doyle, need to be stepping up when it gets tough. Mistakes will be made but it's about how we react.

The loan window opens tomorrow. David Weir needs to have an attacking full back (either side, preferably right), a quick centre half and a commanding central midfielder on his shopping list. I would expect that we'll sign a striker but I'm not sure that should be top priority.

 

[BladeFisher]

In answer to the OP, I'd choose David Weir. Quite what anyone thinks that any other manager would get out of this squad is beyond me.

The main issue seems to be confidence and leadership. As soon as one goal goes in, the heads seem to drop and it's game over.

The senior players - I'm looking at you, Neill Collins, and you, Michael Doyle, need to be stepping up when it gets tough. Mistakes will be made but it's about how we react.

The loan window opens tomorrow. David Weir needs to have an attacking full back (either side, preferably right), a quick centre half and a commanding central midfielder on his shopping list. I would expect that we'll sign a striker but I'm not sure that should be top priority.

Perhaps the best signing would be Mr Motivator!

 

[MCFC]

You lot might laugh but a guy like Paolo Di Canio is what I would look for..

 

[stannyblade]

You lot might laugh but a guy like Paolo Di Canio is what I would look for..

Dont swear on here please

 

[alcoblade]

In answer to the OP, I'd choose David Weir. Quite what anyone thinks that any other manager would get out of this squad is beyond me.

The squad is now stronger than the one that made the play-off's last year, IMHO.

UTB

 

[Balham]

The squad is now stronger than the one that made the play-off's last year, IMHO.

Given that the goalkeepers, defence and midfield are pretty much the same, I would agree. However, there's been a seismic shift in philosophy and it's taking longer than any of us would have wanted to settle.

If this formation is going to succeed we need attacking full backs, a centre half with pace and a central midfielder willing to put the boot in and then make the 20-30 yard forward passes. That's all missing at the moment.

 

[Pinchy]

Perhaps the best signing would be Mr Motivator!

Yes. We want an arm-waving, nonsense-talking, dignity-lacking Gobshite embarrassing us on the touchline. We've never tried that before.

Or we could appoint Muckanettles Morgan. Good old Morgs. He'll get 'em going. Won't he...............?.............Didn't he..................?

 

[alcoblade]

Yes. We want an arm-waving, nonsense-talking, dignity-lacking Gobshite embarrassing us on the touchline. We've never tried that before.

Or we could appoint Muckanettles Morgan. Good old Morgs. He'll get 'em going. Won't he...............?.............Didn't he..................?

I suspect Morgan's points per game ratio was better than Weir's. We also got more entertainment in one match than we got in total in 8 under Weir. If there's not enough evidence about Weir then there clearly isn't about Morgan. Once again your thirst for seeing a ball rolling along the floor is clouding your objectivity.

UTB

 

[BladeFisher]

Yes. We want an arm-waving, nonsense-talking, dignity-lacking Gobshite embarrassing us on the touchline. We've never tried that before.

Or we could appoint Muckanettles Morgan. Good old Morgs. He'll get 'em going. Won't he...............?.............Didn't he..................?

Well funny you should mention it but Bassett's, Warnock's and Morgan's first stints as managers were er slightly more successful than has been Mr Weir. Even after 6 games Morgan's record was actually better.

Obviously Weir's motivational skills are proving successful. Perhaps he's more Jimmy Sirrel than David Moyes.

 

[axel smeets]

You lot might laugh but a guy like Paolo Di Canio is what I would look for..

I wouldn't laugh, I'd hang the cunt from the south stand.

 

[Balham]

I suspect Morgan's points per game ratio was better than Weir's. We also got more entertainment in one match than we got in total in 8 under Weir. If there's not enough evidence about Weir then there clearly isn't about Morgan. Once again your thirst for seeing a ball rolling along the floor is clouding your objectivity.

Weir's first 7 games: W1 D2 L4 F5 A10*
Morgan's only 7 games: W2 D2 L3 F5 A8**

*doesn't include Saturday; includes Burton & Scunthorpe cup games
**includes both play off games

They're both diabolical records, to be fair. The main difference is that it's more obvious what Weir is trying to achieve - and how unsuccessful it's been so far!

I would also suggest that the bit in bold makes me wonder whether you've forgotten just how good most of the performance against Notts County was.

 

[alcoblade]

Weir's first 7 games: W1 D2 L4 F5 A10*
Morgan's only 7 games: W2 D2 L3 F5 A8**

*doesn't include Saturday; includes Burton & Scunthorpe cup games
**includes both play off games

They're both diabolical records, to be fair. The main difference is that it's more obvious what Weir is trying to achieve - and how unsuccessful it's been so far!

I would also suggest that the bit in bold makes me wonder whether you've forgotten just how good most of the performance against Notts County was.

Not a patch on the excitement of Morgan's first game, but good I accept, albeit against shit side, at home, with 10 men for a long period.

The point holds, if you are being objective then you could be as positive about Morgan as Weir (not very), who has had more time and more chance to bring in his own players, and so far sent us backwards.

UTB

 

[BladeFisher]

Weir's first 7 games: W1 D2 L4 F5 A10*
Morgan's only 7 games: W2 D2 L3 F5 A8**

*doesn't include Saturday; includes Burton & Scunthorpe cup games
**includes both play off games

They're both diabolical records, to be fair. The main difference is that it's more obvious what Weir is trying to achieve - and how unsuccessful it's been so far!

I would also suggest that the bit in bold makes me wonder whether you've forgotten just how good most of the performance against Notts County was.

What's more worrying about Weir's record though Balham is the lose ratio. The stats available online only talk about win ratios but defeat ratios is probably more appropriate in our case. Weir's record to date is worse than Heath's but the bloke only has had 8 games all told.

This is deteriorating into an anti-Weir thread and that is not where I think we should be coming from. What concerns me is his unwillingness to adapt to the 'tools' he has (yes I know double entendre there) rather than get his tools to deliver what he wants, which imo is a damn site better than what has occurred to date as Wilson proved in the latter part of his tenure. An example of someone who did that was Dave Bassett. Indeed somewhere he goes on record to say so.

That's not to say we go back to 'skyball' but you work with what you've got not what you'd like.

Hang on, that's my mobile ringing......its HRH, Messi and Ronaldo are coming on loan.

 

[Balham]

alcoblade and BladeFisher you're both right, Weir's record isn't good, even against Morgan's.

The issue I've got at the moment is that we fold like a house of cards. Yes, we managed to salvage a point at home to Colchester when 1-0 down but that is the only time this season when we've managed to get something after going behind. There's no fight in this team but if Weir can sort that (and get them to cut out the Graves Park-esque mistakes) then we will be fine.

If.

Hang on, that's my mobile ringing......its HRH, Messi and Ronaldo are coming on loan.

Sorry mate, international loans can only happen in FIFA transfer windows.

 

[BladeFisher]

alcoblade and BladeFisher you're both right, Weir's record isn't good, even against Morgan's.

The issue I've got at the moment is that we fold like a house of cards. Yes, we managed to salvage a point at home to Colchester when 1-0 down but that is the only time this season when we've managed to get something after going behind. There's no fight in this team but if Weir can sort that (and get them to cut out the Graves Park-esque mistakes) then we will be fine.

If.

Just got to get Pinchy to agree then we've got it sorted!

UTB

 

[DazBlade88]

The issue I've got at the moment is that we fold like a house of cards.

This is the most worrying part of our team for me.

I'm in complete agreement with you and your views on Weir. It's not started well in terms of results and performances but the targets are long term, not instant success. Everything that's come out of the club (before the Prince came along, anyway) has been about rebuilding, long term targets, consolidation etc. so you can accept that we're going to struggle early doors until we settle into a new style. That's a matter of patience and I'm fine with that.

But, how can a manager 'teach' players to have a backbone? You've either got one, or you haven't, and we found out that many of the players haven't got one on Saturday. We were comfortable and playing the best we had done all season until we conceded. What happened after that was rabbit in the headlights stuff and that is a genuine concern because future opponents will see that and jump all over it.

 

[Balham]

Just got to get Pinchy to agree then we've got it sorted!

UTB

I'm fairly sure that Pinchy has a similar viewpoint on style to me. I want to see United play teams off the park and I think we're getting closer to a side which can do that but there needs to be a change in attitude - players working harder if we go behind, players wanting the ball and, crucially, enough positive movement off the ball to give the man in possession a choice (and the defender a dilemma) when we're attacking.

At the moment, too many times players in a United shirt are taking the easy option or hiding, seemingly afraid to make a mistake. That we're playing too deep is both a symptom and an aggravating factor in the poor results - there's far less room for error 30 yards from our goal than there is 30 yards from the opposition's.

This is the most worrying part of our team for me.

I'm in complete agreement with you and your views on Weir. It's not started well in terms of results and performances but the targets are long term, not instant success. Everything that's come out of the club (before the Prince came along, anyway) has been about rebuilding, long term targets, consolidation etc. so you can accept that we're going to struggle early doors until we settle into a new style. That's a matter of patience and I'm fine with that.

But, how can a manager 'teach' players to have a backbone? You've either got one, or you haven't, and we found out that many of the players haven't got one on Saturday. We were comfortable and playing the best we had done all season until we conceded. What happened after that was rabbit in the headlights stuff and that is a genuine concern because future opponents will see that and jump all over it.

Too many Indians, too few Chiefs. I don't think that we need major surgery - but I do think we need to replace at least 2 out of the central 5 to get there.

As I see it, when the going gets tough:

Long - not vocal enough but doesn't hide

McMahon - doesn't hide
Collins - hides
Maguire - hides
Hill - hides

Doyle - hides
Coady - hides

Flynn - strange - sometimes hides, sometimes doesn't
Brandy - hides
Murphy - hides

Porter - doesn't hide but doesn't get stuck in

Only one player in our first 11 would I expect to really fight for a result and that's McMahon - who I've made my views on clear. That is issue #1, #2 and #3 for Weir to fix.

Others:
Taylor - not seen him, can't comment
Cuvelier - ditto
Williams - hides
Westlake - doesn't hide but switches off which costs us time after time.

 

[Rodley]

Hill looks the only player with any bollocks amongst them.

The senior players are culpable - these are players we've consistently failed with. We need organisers, talkers, motivators in the spine of the team. Not people giving the youngsters a bollocking when they make a mistake. They are inexperienced and need leading.

Could you imagine Morgan or McCall in this side? A McGrath or a Cowans? We'd be laughing!

 

[shorehamview]

You lot might laugh but a guy like Paolo Di Canio is what I would look for..

I'd only look for Di Canio through the telescopic sight of a large sniper's rifle. A high velocity .50 calibre round in the chops is all the nasty little fascist fruit loop will be getting from me.

 

[wardonia_blade]

At the end of last season our club was in a total mess. We hardly had a shot after Christmas and didn't stand a chance of beating Yeovil in the play-offs.

David Weir has made a start on a revival. Young players and a game plan. Just what was required.

The results and performances have been dire. But the bloke needs time, possibly several years. I supported his appointment and support him 100% now.

Swansea started off like this 10 years ago. Their resurgence included 2 relegations, but they stuck to their plan and it paid off. Suggest we try to do the same.

 

[MCFC]

I´m sure there is a gameplan, but is it suitable for league one? .. Southampton did manage it though

 

[alcoblade]

Swansea started off like this 10 years ago. Their resurgence included 2 relegations, but they stuck to their plan and it paid off. Suggest we try to do the same.

2 relegations -wow

I cannot accept that there is only the Swansea model.

Once again I believe our desire to expell the memory of hoof is clouding too many people's judgement.

UTB

 

[Pennblade]

At the end of last season our club was in a total mess. We hardly had a shot after Christmas and didn't stand a chance of beating Yeovil in the play-offs.

David Weir has made a start on a revival. Young players and a game plan. Just what was required.

The results and performances have been dire. But the bloke needs time, possibly several years. I supported his appointment and support him 100% now.

Swansea started off like this 10 years ago. Their resurgence included 2 relegations, but they stuck to their plan and it paid off. Suggest we try to do the same.

Wardonia,

Simple question - assuming the same win/loss/draw ratio - how many games would you give Weir before you'd want him out?

Incidentally, Swansea's "resurgence" started in 04/05 when they were promoted to Div 1 after sacking Flynn and appointing Jacket. Since then they improved their league position every year except in 06/07 (finished 7 in Div 1 cf 6th year before) resulting in Jacket being sacked and replaced by Martinez. Moral of the story - you stick with a manager - as long as he delivers!

I agree it's too early to pass judgement on Weir but he shouldn't be given even a whole season if he isn't delivering tangible improvement.

 

[Pinchy]

Balham Blade,

I do agree with you. Our new footballing principles are spot on, but not working at the moment. We all know that. i'm daft, but not that daft. We are not getting either the ball or players forward often enough or quickly enough. The answer, however, is to be found within proper football, not by returning to discredited aimless, hopeless punts to nobody.

The first thing is simplistic but true. Our current strikers are nowhere near good enough. Maybe Taylor will come good but he's got a way to go. Porter takes 'limited' to a new level. Ironside? No, Sorry. We would be a hugely different proposition with Clarke and Wilson at 9 and 10. DW tried hard to bring both in but Cov (as is their right) wouldn't play. We may not have seen the end of that story, though. It shows, at least, that DW is actively working on it. We'll have at least one new striker in the days and weeks ahead. Intelligent movement up front makes it much easier for the midfielders to shine.

Our wide players, with the exception of Brandy are far too anonymous. Their contribution us way below what we are entitled to expect from them. I do not exclude local hero McFadzean. He is no better than Flynn or Murphy and that equals 'not good enough'.

We need to gradually but proactively drop off those who are not fit for the journey ahead (and it will, unlike our play at present, be an exciting one) such as Doyle, Porter, Flynn, Murphy, Hill, Williams and a few more. We need talent augmented by a bit of pace, power and athleticism. As some of you may know, I'm a football purist but that doesn't mean I'm averse to a few big, powerful (and/or quick) lads in key areas. Quite the contrary. One of my favourite teams, the Arsenal Invincibles, was full of height, pace and power, but they could've play as well. We, armed with our new found wealth, should be working towards finding the League One and Championship versions of Vieira, Toure, Henry, Gallas, Pires and Bergkamp (tough one, that, I know!). We are, in my view, too small, too lightweight, too slow and unimposing. The addition of pace, power and athleticism does not demand non-football. Far from it. We can learn a little from the Premiership in this respect. Most top flight teams are well-equipped with big, fit athletes who can also play. We have too many flimsy specimens who can't hold their own in the physical battle that all but the very best have to win in order to make superior ability win the day.

We can now recruit at a higher level. It has started with two excellent footballers in Baxter and Cuvelier. Neither would have signed for a Hoofit manager. Both are going to be very big players for us in the years to come and they are to be joined, thank Pele, by others as good and better. I'm quite sure DW has an eye for the right sort of player. Carsley, too, with his excellent playing career, knows his football. They are novices at the management game, of course, but intelligent, committed novices with admirable principles. I think they'll learn quickly and, sooner rather than later, do very well. Both Ferguson and Kendall were one game away from the sack, then came their glory years.

I really think we have some golden years ahead. Yes, I'll be ridiculed given our present performances and parlous league position, but things are inevitably going to change. Our team will be unrecognisable by the end of January 2014. We need to look beyond the current birth pains. It will be a beautiful baby. He'll grow up to be a delightful lad and he'll do things the right way.

*Sorry if this is not as cogent or elegant as usual. I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment. Forgive my ramblings, please.

 

[The Fox]

Some sensible and considered views along with some swot analysis of the squad and long term blah blah , football philosophy blah , fair play can't throw money around blah.
We can now act disgracefully like a proper club with new dirty money, break the rules on fair play , sack every manager until we find one that succeeds , then sack them just for the hell , sign mercenaries on too much money and fill the team with foreigners whilst we ditch the academy players with the crap local clubs we leave in our wake as we push for European glory.
Heck of a ride though , or we could be patient and get beet by shit every week ? Time to sell our souls