Myth or fact re International Players…..

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Blade56

Blade56

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Wilder says he’s not a fan of a team full of International players he said last week he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”

In yesterday’s game these were the scores……..

Milwall - Ivanovic (Serbian)
Norwich - Sargent, Crnoc, Dobbin, Marcondes (USA, UK, Croatia, Denmark)
Swansea - Cullen (UK)
Bristol - Twine, Wells (UK)
Blackburn - Weirmann (Austria)
Cardiff - Robinson, El Gazi (UK, Netherlands)
Derby - Salveson (Norway)
Preston - Thordason, Riis, Jacobsen (Iceland, Denmark, Denmark)
Middlesborough - Burgzorg (Netherlands)
Coventry - Torp (Denmark)
Watford - Kitching (UK)
Pigs - smith, Patterson (uk, UK)
Sunderland - Isidor, Hume (France, UK)
Plymouth - Patterson, Ogbeta, (UK, UK)
WBA - Mowatt, Diagana, Wallace, Swift (UK, Congo, UK, UK)
Portsmouth - Waddington (Australia)

These are just the goal scores and doesn’t take account of all the other players.

Not scientific but out of 29 goals scored 12 were scored by UK (Eng, Wales, Scotland and Ireland) and 17 from Internationals.

Sure some stato’s ont forum will have tools to analyse whole squads and keepers. But is Wilder right that he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”?
 

Blade56 said:
Wilder says he’s not a fan of a team full of International players he said last week he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”

In yesterday’s game these were the scores……..

Milwall - Ivanovic (Serbian)
Norwich - Sargent, Crnoc, Dobbin, Marcondes (USA, UK, Croatia, Denmark)
Swansea - Cullen (UK)
Bristol - Twine, Wells (UK)
Blackburn - Weirmann (Austria)
Cardiff - Robinson, El Gazi (UK, Netherlands)
Derby - Salveson (Norway)
Preston - Thordason, Riis, Jacobsen (Iceland, Denmark, Denmark)
Middlesborough - Burgzorg (Netherlands)
Coventry - Torp (Denmark)
Watford - Kitching (UK)
Pigs - smith, Patterson (uk, UK)
Sunderland - Isidor, Hume (France, UK)
Plymouth - Patterson, Ogbeta, (UK, UK)
WBA - Mowatt, Diagana, Wallace, Swift (UK, Congo, UK, UK)
Portsmouth - Waddington (Australia)

These are just the goal scores and doesn’t take account of all the other players.

Not scientific but out of 29 goals scored 12 were scored by UK (Eng, Wales, Scotland and Ireland) and 17 from Internationals.

Sure some stato’s ont forum will have tools to analyse whole squads and keepers. But is Wilder right that he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”?
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I don't know about the stats, but it's my opinion we'll never progress to anything like an established PL team without blending in a number of international footballers. The English talent pool is okay, but we're overlooking 99% of world footballers and with the price of English players we just won't be able to compete as I see it.
 
Chezzy Blades said:
I don't know about the stats, but it's my opinion we'll never progress to anything like an established PL team without blending in a number of international footballers. The English talent pool is okay, but we're overlooking 99% of world footballers and with the price of English players we just won't be able to compete as I see it.
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With the new owners specifically mentioning the use of data more, I just can't see how much longer Wilder can use his current approach. "Why are we looking to sign this player for 'x' when we have a player available here for 'y' with the same stats, but is plying their trade in Portugal?".
 
This all day long,just look at Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth, do you think that they would have their success without the influx of "foreign players " .
It's imperative that we go down that road to have a sustainable Impact on the premier league
 
Blade56 said:
Wilder says he’s not a fan of a team full of International players he said last week he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”

In yesterday’s game these were the scores……..

Milwall - Ivanovic (Serbian)
Norwich - Sargent, Crnoc, Dobbin, Marcondes (USA, UK, Croatia, Denmark)
Swansea - Cullen (UK)
Bristol - Twine, Wells (UK)
Blackburn - Weirmann (Austria)
Cardiff - Robinson, El Gazi (UK, Netherlands)
Derby - Salveson (Norway)
Preston - Thordason, Riis, Jacobsen (Iceland, Denmark, Denmark)
Middlesborough - Burgzorg (Netherlands)
Coventry - Torp (Denmark)
Watford - Kitching (UK)
Pigs - smith, Patterson (uk, UK)
Sunderland - Isidor, Hume (France, UK)
Plymouth - Patterson, Ogbeta, (UK, UK)
WBA - Mowatt, Diagana, Wallace, Swift (UK, Congo, UK, UK)
Portsmouth - Waddington (Australia)

These are just the goal scores and doesn’t take account of all the other players.

Not scientific but out of 29 goals scored 12 were scored by UK (Eng, Wales, Scotland and Ireland) and 17 from Internationals.

Sure some stato’s ont forum will have tools to analyse whole squads and keepers. But is Wilder right that he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”?
Click to expand...
Isnt Nahki Wells Bermudan?
 
PrestwichBlade said:
With the new owners specifically mentioning the use of data more, I just can't see how much longer Wilder can use his current approach. "Why are we looking to sign this player for 'x' when we have a player available here for 'y' with the same stats, but is plying their trade in Portugal?".
Click to expand...
Using data more but he’s also stressed that the methods to find the right character of players is still used as well.

If the Wilder quote is correct Blade56 then he’s not saying no to international players, just not a team full of them

Two of the spine this season have been Souttar and Souza with Hamer and Anel also playing a huge role in the success so it also shows that international players have been hugely important as well

What is important to Wilder is the character of players, no matter where they come from, but also the understanding of our club. We are the plucky underdog, so I think it’s right that players know and understand this.

Again, regardless of where they come from they have to understand what it means to play for the club and not just pick up a wage…
 
Anel Ahmedhodžić - Born in Sweden to Bosnian parents

Gustavo Hamer - Born in Brazil

Vinícius de Souza Costa - Born in Rio de Janeiro

So why has Wilder not shipped out these forrins then, and replaced them with british talent ?


Myth.
 
PrestwichBlade said:
With the new owners specifically mentioning the use of data more, I just can't see how much longer Wilder can use his current approach. "Why are we looking to sign this player for 'x' when we have a player available here for 'y' with the same stats, but is plying their trade in Portugal?".
Click to expand...
Surely the chairman dictate the signings and the current approach?
 
Tom Bott said:
Anel Ahmedhodžić - Born in Sweden to Bosnian parents

Gustavo Hamer - Born in Brazil

Vinícius de Souza Costa - Born in Rio de Janeiro

So why has Wilder not shipped out these forrins then, and replaced them with british talent ?


Myth.
Click to expand...
Because they’re our best players ie foreign players and counter Wilders own statement that he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”
 
Is Wilder saying he doesn't like foreign players or that he doesn't like players in the team who play for their countries, as it adds extra matches and risk of injury to them? I personally think it's the latter or he wouldn't be starting Anel, Souza, Souttar and Hamer.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
Is Wilder saying he doesn't like foreign players or that he doesn't like players in the team who play for their countries, as it adds extra matches and risk of injury to them? I personally think it's the latter or he wouldn't be starting Anel, Souza, Souttar and Hamer.
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Agree. That's how I read it, as well. Given that we currently have a small squad, with a high incidence of injuries, it's an understandable concern.

All that said, I also agree with the comments made about our limited horizons and can't recall Wilder's last signing of a foreign player made directly from an overseas club.
 
Racing Blade said:
Agree. That's how I read it, as well. Given that we currently have a small squad, with a high incidence of injuries, it's an understandable concern.

All that said, I also agree with the comments made about our limited horizons and can't recall Wilder's last signing of a foreign player made directly from an overseas club.
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The two that spring to mind are Zivkovic and Retsos (and possibly Verrips, can't remember who signed him?) but looking back you wonder whether they were perhaps United World driven signings.
 

Brexit complicates the landscape a bit. Essentially, Work Permits are easier for established players, getting a lot of game time, in the major overseas leagues. But are harder for young, hidden gems who we can buy from nowhere and polish. The established PL teams can afford the sort of players who will easily qualify for a Work Permit. I think it's more difficult for a club in our current circumstances.
 
Blade56 said:
Wilder says he’s not a fan of a team full of International players he said last week he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”

In yesterday’s game these were the scores……..

Milwall - Ivanovic (Serbian)
Norwich - Sargent, Crnoc, Dobbin, Marcondes (USA, UK, Croatia, Denmark)
Swansea - Cullen (UK)
Bristol - Twine, Wells (UK)
Blackburn - Weirmann (Austria)
Cardiff - Robinson, El Gazi (UK, Netherlands)
Derby - Salveson (Norway)
Preston - Thordason, Riis, Jacobsen (Iceland, Denmark, Denmark)
Middlesborough - Burgzorg (Netherlands)
Coventry - Torp (Denmark)
Watford - Kitching (UK)
Pigs - smith, Patterson (uk, UK)
Sunderland - Isidor, Hume (France, UK)
Plymouth - Patterson, Ogbeta, (UK, UK)
WBA - Mowatt, Diagana, Wallace, Swift (UK, Congo, UK, UK)
Portsmouth - Waddington (Australia)

These are just the goal scores and doesn’t take account of all the other players.

Not scientific but out of 29 goals scored 12 were scored by UK (Eng, Wales, Scotland and Ireland) and 17 from Internationals.

Sure some stato’s ont forum will have tools to analyse whole squads and keepers. But is Wilder right that he “doesn’t see a team of international footballers here, I’ve got to say I don’t think it works”?
Click to expand...
What’s the proportion of foreign strikers to British ones?
As strikers are more likely to score and I’d guess (without checking) that a greater proportion of foreign players are attacking players as opposed to defensive ones.
 
Tom Bott said:
Anel Ahmedhodžić - Born in Sweden to Bosnian parents

Gustavo Hamer - Born in Brazil

Vinícius de Souza Costa - Born in Rio de Janeiro

So why has Wilder not shipped out these forrins then, and replaced them with british
Click to expand...
Give him a chance, he might...all have rumored bids or at least interest
 
I can see there's a difference between international players established in the UK and those playing abroad.

It's usually cheaper to buy international players from abroad but there's also the risk that they'll be unable to adapt to the rigours of English football.

There are lots of great players who have not made it in England but gone on to have good careers abroad.

What you do need is top notch scouting networks. Easy to spot talent. Probably many on here quite easily could. But spotting talent and being able to judge character, physique, development etc is much trickier.

It's why you see players being snapped up further down the chain because they'll be on the radar of the big teams but there will be too much uncertainty.
 
SwissBlade said:
Using data more but he’s also stressed that the methods to find the right character of players is still used as well.

If the Wilder quote is correct Blade56 then he’s not saying no to international players, just not a team full of them

Two of the spine this season have been Souttar and Souza with Hamer and Anel also playing a huge role in the success so it also shows that international players have been hugely important as well

What is important to Wilder is the character of players, no matter where they come from, but also the understanding of our club. We are the plucky underdog, so I think it’s right that players know and understand this.

Again, regardless of where they come from they have to understand what it means to play for the club and not just pick up a wage…
Click to expand...
Completely understand that, character is obviously very important to Wilder. I suppose I was more hypothesising how long the new owners would tolerate us seemingly fishing in such a limited pond (they may well be perfectly happy with that, but I'd be surprised). I'd be interested to see what approach is taken in the summer window (division dependent of course), compared to this.
 
So the future vision of the new owners is for us to be established in the Premier League and not a yo yo club. I'm afraid that with the present mentality regarding foreign players that will not be happening any time soon. Recent figures show of 518 players used in the Premiership 340 were foreign and only 178 were non-foreign (70.2%/29.8 split). Additionally there are only 3 non-foreign coaches/managers in the Premiership - Eddie Howe, David Moyes and Kieran McKenna. Additionally last year Bettis was quoted in The Star saying SUFC will not be employing a Director of Football. No reason given but was it because Abdullah wouldn't pay for one or Wilder won't work under one? All Premiership clubs presently have either a Director of Football, Sporting Director or Technical Director call it what you will. World, let alone English football has moved forward and we are going to have to play major catch up or being established in the Premier League will continue to be a pipe dream.
 
Where are we actually scouting for players ?
Surely if we want to even attempt to compete at P L level we have to be casting the net far and wide.
I saw Khussenov came from Belarus to Lens for a million euro,and then he's going for over 30 not long after.
 
PrestwichBlade said:
Completely understand that, character is obviously very important to Wilder. I suppose I was more hypothesising how long the new owners would tolerate us seemingly fishing in such a limited pond (they may well be perfectly happy with that, but I'd be surprised). I'd be interested to see what approach is taken in the summer window (division dependent of course), compared to this.
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I think in the championship we can do it mostly with British players but premier league you have to expand further if you’re to sustain a stay there.
 
When it gets to the stage that you're so desperate to bring in English players that you'll dip as low as the Bundesliga 2, then you really have to ask whether it's worth looking at more foreign signings
 
The trouble is, you have to coach different if you've got a squad of international players.

I remember watching the coaching videos from the start of last season. Larouche and Slimane were stood at the back, bored, paying no attention. As the coaches talked to the squad, in English.
Don't think they understood a word
 
Blacksea said:
Where are we actually scouting for players ?
Surely if we want to even attempt to compete at P L level we have to be casting the net far and wide.
I saw Khussenov came from Belarus to Lens for a million euro,and then he's going for over 30 not long after.
Click to expand...
If you’re not driving the stream roller you’re part of the road
 

It’s telling that our 3 better players are all from overseas. It’s been discussed many times about Wilder and his signing policies and although I often jest about him only signing British and Irish players he does have form for it with the odd exception.

If we were to get promoted and continue with this policy the result would be similar to our last couple of seasons in the PL.

I don’t think we should go ‘full foreign’ but we’d need a healthy mix to achieve anything other than certain relegation upon promotion.
 
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