My take ...

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pommpey said:
Well, it had to happen some time and in truth, it's been coming. Boro, our biggest threat to promotion, came to BDTBL tonight and spanked us thoroughly. After a crisp start, the usual pattern of losing the stiffy after ten pumps took place and we spent the rest of the match with the team in Osborn mode, chasing about and getting fuck all traction.

Great, if fortunate start from us with JLT lobbing in McBurnie's opener ... or Anels ... whoever ... I don't care. It went in and it looked like we may add to it with a flurry of chances but we have been playing this 'go soft' game for many months now, in particular at home. It's disappointing but we need to break free of this and start putting teams under concerted pressure. It would help if we could get the midfield to function correctly mind. Norwood had last season's boots on, Berge vanished back into Mr Light Grey and McAtee tried but failed. We tried optimistic but pointless punts up the pitch expecting McBurnie to 'do summat wi it' and did our usual schtick of getting bogged down in the kill zone wide outside the penalty areas. If we did break through, a lively but now misfiring N'Daiye failed to capitalise and across the pitch Boro, although pretty decent and well disciplined made the ten point gap look hollow and undeserved. They have some great players who turned us over all over the pitch and refused to ease up. It was a comprehensive 'job' on United and one the now suspended Hecky needs to learn from. Their goals were avoidable and as a result of basic footballing errors. A snoozing and rather naive defence for the first, lack of ability to control the game for the second and coughing up possession in advantage for their third. Boro simply punished that and we didn't respond, not even with some guilt-edged chances.

Foderingham 7/10: Possibly our best player. No chance with the goals and did what he could when asked, including picking the ball out of the net
Bogle 6/10: Good going forward at times but part of a sometimes calamitous right side and asked to do so much what with Berge on holiday
Anel 6.5/10: Good in parts but still showing critical vulnerability and lack of judgement at times. Key tackle in the second half which gets him a whole point
Egan 6/10: Trying to shepherd Archer and Akpom out on his own at times
JLT 5/10: Exposed and run at by their three man front line. Got into a verbal tangle at the end with one of our fans in the JSS
Lowe 5.5/10: Fairly vanilla game for him. Tried forays up the line but had his hands full too much traking back as they quickly broke to have any real effect
Berge 4/10: Disappointing game. It seems he only switches on when the ball is near him. His off the ball work tonight was poor, even after a promising start
Norwood 4/10: Poor game, telegraphing balls and coughing up possession. Boro simply cancelled him out
McAtee 5/10: And only just. Out muscled somewhat and frustratingly clumsy on the ball tonight
N'Daiye 6/10: Plenty of graft and industry but some disappointing finishing
McBurnie 6/10: he can only do what he can do with the ball in front of goal. Tonight he was a bit 'last year'

Jebbison 5/10: Brought on to go 4-3-3 then 4-4-2. Spooned a sitter header over the bar when we really needed a goal
Osborn 5/10: No fucking idea why he is the answer when Coullibally is sat on the bench. No real effect. Again.

HJ&SMcC 3/10: Aside from Hecky's daft red card we didn't change the game at half time and go on the attack. And the substitutes were characteristically late and misplaced. We can't afford to lose the game v Millwall, so need consistency and the ability to open teams up. Boro were technically much better than us tonight, especially capitalising on chances and working the counter attack into chances. We don't do that and it shows. Tonight was a lesson and it was predictable. It needs not be the start of our slide.

pommpey
Click to expand...
Feel the marks are high 1 to 11 were poor last night let's hope this is the punch on the nose we needed and we respond well on Saturday.. UTB
 
Berge 5/10: Disappointing game. Not bad with ball- awful without it- needs a kick up the arse to properly close down properly tackle
Norwood 5.5/10: Poor game, by his standards but still the best midfielder for us on show - only one to put his foot in only one to offer all the time.
McAtee 3/10: And only just. awful game- weak and just no presence whatsoever - No better than Stefan Scougall on that display and no bigger.

Boro deserved that - we made them look likea Prem team. it's felt like this has been coming for a few weeks, but was dereadfully disappointing.
 
Boro second half, pacey, solid, quick passing and movement, appeared to win loads of second balls
Our final ball again very poor in good positions,
3 rd goal killed us, not sure if the red was to blame or not, looked a strange decision at the time
Loads of games still to go, so re group etc
 
Nagima said:
I would add one additional piece to your report pompey. And its about what is obviously not going on at the training ground. I am referring to attacking structure and link up play.
Ndiaye, Bogle McAtee and McBurnie while initially effective, what they are attempting to do when on the ball needs to be addressed by the coaching staff.

Bogle and N'Diaye being the main culprits. We have gone from last years go down the sides give and go, then recycle and try the other side to a dribbling competition. Ndiaye and Bogle were confusing themselves and team mates with what they were doing.

That is, run with the ball like a headless chicken, then get confused about what you doing and losing the ball. Boro, attacked with crisp passes and cut backs to a team mate in support. Jebbison appeared more direct in his cameo. Billy when playing also tries to link up play. Last night was a demonstration of selfish play and believing in their own hype.

Hecky and the coaching staff need to wake up and knock this shit off. Coupling the dribbling competition with Norwood's Hollywood passing and Berge's invisible man routine, leaves us with what we saw last night.
Click to expand...
Great post

IN and Bogle have great talent but unless it’s harnessed in the right way it can actually improve us worse - as you rightly point out
 
Thought your marks are very generous Pommpey. I was watching in a bar and there was no sound. Second half I wondered where Berge, Lowe and Macatee were???
Personally I d have given Berge a zero. Whilst Norwood was poor Berge was virtually anonymous so why he hooked Norwood instead of Berge is beyond me.
I dread to think what this side playing like that would be like in the Prem. We d be a laughing stock.
 
Some very generous scores there.

Not many players above a 5 for me, as a team we were poor. Anel was miles off it.

Also we were obviously having no luck dribbling, getting muscled off the ball.

So we bring on Osborn.
 
Bit of an overreaction by everybody I think. First 20 we were much better than Boro. Rest of the game they were much better than us. Sometimes it happens. They're the form team in the division, but it won't last forever. They're still gonna have a few slip ups. And it's the first loss since November. We're 7 clear with a game in hand. Whose position would you choose, theirs or ours? Look at the highlights and the missed sitters were ours (Ndiaye unfathomably running it into the goalie rather than tucking it past him, Egan's open goal header in the last minute).
Boro's biggest asset was the mobility in midfield. That showed why Berge wouldn't make it the the even faster Premier League. He looked bewildered as they ran all around him. Mcatee looked lightweight, and Norwood was back to looking for the Hollywood ball every time.
Still, go back to the Forest play-off game last season. They did a similar job on us, but in the 2nd leg, we did it to them. Much rather be in our position than Boro's...
 
Got to give them plenty of credit, they were a good team to watch and didn’t resort to the extreme sh*thousery many others do at the Lane. Having said that, we should have been out of sight by the 15th minute, but as usual we are wasteful with good chances. Bogle gets in good positions but his final product is wasteful. Norwood has too many shots really wide of the target and his inch perfect well weighted tackle/pass to Archer was sublime. McAtee lost the ball far too many times. Puzzled by Hecky’s interview where he said we could have made more passes in our moves, I thought the issue was that we overplay. We need to put it behind us now and get something on Saturday.
 
Lot of people on here now starting to see the patterns forming I alluded to in previous 'My Takes ...'

Straight from the off we are on them and either score early or fluff a load of chances to score. Then there seems to be either a signal from our bench to staop attakcing or from their bench that we have shat our last chunk and there's nowt more to plop out into the potty. Its at that moment we simply 'go defensive' unless the opposition (like Swansea) are not really set up much to trouble our ever more vulnerable backline. We end up then under massive pressure defending a lead or expecting an equaliser with no method to regain control of the game and make them work hard. Last night it was fairly basic stuff for Boro. Just press the backline, harass the midfield and force us into avoidable errors in panic. There's no assured control. No one either puts their foot on the ball or goes through the middle, preferably with the ball at their feet eating up the yards.

pommpey
 

I really can’t see Boro losing too many games for the rest of the season, so we really need to get back on track with a win on Saturday. Lot of time and respect for Carrick. Seems emotionally controlled and knows what he wants and gets the players to do it. If Boro don’t go up I could see him being picked up by one of the mid table Premier League teams over the summer.
Last night, from what I saw of Coubially against Wrexham , would have been ideal for him last night, to fill the holes and go box to box. You have to question the manager, when whatever the question is, Osborn is the answer
 
Interesting take pommpey . Agree with a lot of it, disagree with some. Here's my thoughts for what it's worth...

First half was pretty even.
15 minutes in, we were throwing the kitchen sink at them and were unlucky to only have a 1 goal advantage.
Middlesbrough then started finding pockets of space behind our midfield and out wide and started to create a few openings. Their goal was coming and it arrived exactly how I thought it might. Down the left and nobody covering the inside runner coming into the box...
The rest of the half played out fairly evenly. It was a really good game, in the balance, with both teams attacking with quality.

Second half, they blew us away.
Heckingbottom referred to statistics and put the loss down to our inability to finish our chances... I didn't see it like that. Middlesbrough were much better than us and played all of the football.
Their 4-2-3-1 shape & pass-and-move style meant they always had options off the ball at all times. They were a cohesive unit, comfortable in possession. You could see Carrick's imprint on the team, as it was how he liked to play the game.
Akpom and Archer had the beatings of our defence and we looked exposed every time they got behind our high-press.
With the ball, they were excellent. Without it, they were vulnerable. Norwood picked a terrible night to have a stinker...
... Middlesbrough came to win, their full backs advanced high and there was space in behind for those Oli Norwood textbook diagonals. Alas, he was misfiring on all cylinders!

As for us, we looked like a team of individuals. Off the ball, nobody presented themselves as an option. The likes of Bogle, McAtee and Ndiaye were all guilty (as per recent weeks) of overplaying and dribbling down blind alleys. Anel, Robinson and Lowe all struggled defensively with the best forward line to come to the Lane.
The only players I thought came out of the game with any real credit were Egan, Berge and McBurnie.

Foderingham - 5
A couple of times he was glued to his line, when he needed to help out his defence by sweeping up. Terrific finish by Archer on their second but its still beaten him at his near post.

Bogle - 5.5
Heavily involved but lacked quality in key areas. Guilty of overplaying.

Ahmedhodzic - 5.5
Feel for him. He looks jaded. Archer gave him the run-around tonight. Bags half a mark for the last-ditch show-reel challenge.

Egan - 6
Good first half. Defended on the front foot. Maybe a bit flat footed on the Akpom goal and a bit slow to get out to him but, for me, a midfielder should have been tracking back there.

Robinson - 5
Akpom seemed to have him rattled. Thought he struggled along with a few others.

Lowe - 4.5
Worst game I've seen from him in a while. They seemed to get in down his side all night. He was miles off his man on a number of occasions and it reminded me of his performances in the PL.

Berge - 6
Had a really good first half, most of our best play went through him. Second half, faded along with the rest of the team - however, I still felt he tried to get us going at times. Dropped deep and tried to move us forward. Too many times we passed from side to side, then backwards, then lumped it up field whilst Berge was an option in the centre.

Norwood - 4.5
Such a shame he picked last night to have his first poor game in ages. It was nothing to do with being marked, or pressed either. He was just misfiring all over the park.
Too many Hollywood passes went astray. Didn't hide and got stuck in where he could and I do think he was badly exposed by their system and ours. Perhaps McAtee and Berge didn't offer him enough cover.

McAtee - 5.5
In terms of Man City, I'm just not sure he has developed enough of a final product to get anywhere near their first team for at least a couple of seasons.
He has nice balance and retains the ball pretty well (when he isn't fouled) but he needs to be offering so much more.


Ndiaye - 5.5
The quality has dropped off in recent weeks.
Taking too many touches and not getting the ball out of his feet and getting decent shots / passes off. His work-rate is still there (although, I felt his head dropped last night) but I don't think his link play is where it was. Needs a rest.

McBurnie - 6.5
Our best player. Some lovely hold-up and linking. A well taken goal and, as is often the case, defended set-pieces well. #

Subs

Jebbison - 6
Had a good impact. I'd start him at Millwall. Offers something different. He's pacey and direct.
We need to freshen things up and he's our only option with Sharp out.

Osborn - 5
Ran around.


In terms of the rest of the season...
I've maintained for a while that I could only see Middlesbrough troubling us. Last night has strengthened that view.
I can see that Middlesbrough team going on a Forest-like run of over 2 points / game. Probably finishing somewhere around the 85 points mark.

This means our form is going to have to be circa 1.7 points / game to hold them off. Equivalent to decent play-off form.
I think they're going to close the gap significantly over the next few weeks. Its a big ask for us to keep matching their points return over the next month or so given the level of opponents we will be facing in comparison to them.
It's going to be very tight before long.
 
Last edited:
CaptainMorgans said:
Interesting take pommpey . Agree with a lot of it, disagree with some. Here's my thoughts for what it's worth...

First half was pretty even.
15 minutes in, we were throwing the kitchen sink at them and were unlucky to only have a 1 goal advantage.
Middlesbrough then started finding pockets of space behind our midfield and out wide and started to create a few openings. Their goal was coming and it arrived exactly how I thought it might. Down the left and nobody covering the inside runner coming into the box...
The rest of the half played out fairly evenly. It was a really good game, in the balance, with both teams attacking with quality.

Second half, they blew us away.
Heckingbottom referred to statistics and put the loss down to our inability to finish our chances... I didn't see it like that. Middlesbrough were much better than us and played all of the football.
Their 4-2-3-1 shape & pass-and-move style meant they always had options off the ball at all times. They were a cohesive unit, comfortable in possession. You could see Carrick's imprint on the team, as it was how he liked to play the game.
Akpom and Archer had the beatings of our defence and we looked exposed every time they got behind our high-press.
With the ball, they were excellent. Without it, they were vulnerable. Norwood picked a terrible night to have a stinker...
... Middlesbrough came to win, their full backs advanced high and there was space in behind for those Oli Norwood textbook diagonals. Alas, he was misfiring on all cylinders!

As for us, we looked like a team of individuals. Off the ball, nobody presented themselves as an option. The likes of Bogle, McAtee and Ndiaye were all guilty (as per recent weeks) of overplaying and dribbling down blind alleys. Anel, Robinson and Lowe all struggled defensively with the best forward line to come to the Lane.
The only players I thought came out of the game with any real credit were Egan, Berge and McBurnie.

Foderingham - 5
A couple of times he was glued to his line, when he needed to help out his defence by sweeping up. Terrific finish by Archer on their second but its still beaten him at his near post.

Bogle - 5.5
Heavily involved but lacked quality in key areas. Guilty of overplaying.

Ahmedhodzic - 5.5
Feel for him. He looks jaded. Archer gave him the run-around tonight. Bags half a mark for the last-ditch show-reel challenge.

Egan - 6
Good first half. Defended on the front foot. Maybe a bit flat footed on the Akpom goal and a bit slow to get out to him but, for me, a midfielder should have been tracking back there.

Robinson - 5
Akpom seemed to have him rattled. Thought he struggled along with a few others.

Lowe - 4.5
Worst game I've seen from him in a while. They seemed to get in down his side all night. He was miles off his man on a number of occasions and it reminded me of his performances in the PL.

Berge - 6
Had a really good first half, most of our best play went through him. Second half, faded along with the rest of the team - however, I still felt he tried to get us going at times. Dropped deep and tried to move us forward. Too many times we passed from side to side, then backwards, then lumped it up field whilst Berge was an option in the centre.

Norwood - 4.5
Such a shame he picked last night to have his first poor game in ages. It was nothing to do with being marked, or pressed either. He was just misfiring all over the park.
Too many Hollywood passes went astray. Didn't hide and got stuck in where he could and I do think he was badly exposed by their system and ours. Perhaps McAtee and Berge didn't offer him enough cover.

McAtee - 5.5
In terms of Man City, I'm just not sure he has developed enough of a final product to get anywhere near their first team for at least a couple of seasons.
He has nice balance and retains the ball pretty well (when he isn't fouled) but he needs to be offering so much more.


Ndiaye - 5.5
The quality has dropped off in recent weeks.
Taking too many touches and not getting the ball out of his feet and getting decent shots / passes off. His work-rate is still there (although, I felt his head dropped last night) but I don't think his link play is where it was. Needs a rest.

McBurnie - 6.5
Our best player. Some lovely hold-up and linking. A well taken goal and, as is often the case, defended set-pieces well. #

Subs

Jebbison - 6
Had a good impact. I'd start him at Millwall. Offers something different. He's pacey and direct.
We need to freshen things up and he's our only option with Sharp out.

Osborn - 5
Ran around.


In terms of the rest of the season...
I've maintained for a while that I could only see Middlesbrough troubling us. Last night has strengthened that view.
I can see that Middlesbrough team going on a Forest-like run of over 2 points / game. Probably finishing somewhere around the 85 points mark.

This means our form is going to have to be circa 1.7 points / game to hold them off. Equivalent to decent play-off form.
I think they're going to close the gap significantly over the next few weeks. Its a big ask for us to keep matching their points return over the next month or so given the level of opponents we will be facing in comparison to them.
It's going to be very tight before long.
Click to expand...
Super post
 
Not much to add to what has already been said. Too many players had an off-night on the one night that we needed everyone on form.

McAtee had the ball pinched from his feet, numerous times, we were over-run in midfield, and when we took Norwood off, it seemed that Berge was trying to play in his position, to no effect.

It was screaming out for a tough tackler in midfield, someone to slow them down, Couliabaly was doing that, against Wrexham, and we know Fleck can do it, or could in the past.

I thought Bogle played OK, but tried to do too much alone. You would have put money on Ndiaye scoring from point blank range, but no, straight at the keeper.

I said a few weeks ago, on another thread, that we are catchable (by Boro), and I still hold that view. They are not unbeatable, Sunderland showed that a few weeks ago, and my Mackem supporting colleague said they played Boro off the park, but you can't let Akpom get into the box, as there is only one outcome. We needed to be defending in midfield, and that won't happen with McAtee and Berge.

Anyway, it's done now, a few nice beers after as a consolation ("AM: PM" from Thornbridge).
 
Muttley said:
Why is it we always seem to struggle when we score early?
Click to expand...
Was going to start a thread on that, but have lost my VA VA voom...

It's a very valid point though as its as if we run flat out until we score, and then just ease off. But not in a shut up shop kind of way - more in a 'it'll reyt' kind of way...

More for Hecky and Tom Little to analyse.
 
pommpey said:
Well, it had to happen some time and in truth, it's been coming. Boro, our biggest threat to promotion, came to BDTBL tonight and spanked us thoroughly. After a crisp start, the usual pattern of losing the stiffy after ten pumps took place and we spent the rest of the match with the team in Osborn mode, chasing about and getting fuck all traction.

Great, if fortunate start from us with JLT lobbing in McBurnie's opener ... or Anels ... whoever ... I don't care. It went in and it looked like we may add to it with a flurry of chances but we have been playing this 'go soft' game for many months now, in particular at home. It's disappointing but we need to break free of this and start putting teams under concerted pressure. It would help if we could get the midfield to function correctly mind. Norwood had last season's boots on, Berge vanished back into Mr Light Grey and McAtee tried but failed. We tried optimistic but pointless punts up the pitch expecting McBurnie to 'do summat wi it' and did our usual schtick of getting bogged down in the kill zone wide outside the penalty areas. If we did break through, a lively but now misfiring N'Daiye failed to capitalise and across the pitch Boro, although pretty decent and well disciplined made the ten point gap look hollow and undeserved. They have some great players who turned us over all over the pitch and refused to ease up. It was a comprehensive 'job' on United and one the now suspended Hecky needs to learn from. Their goals were avoidable and as a result of basic footballing errors. A snoozing and rather naive defence for the first, lack of ability to control the game for the second and coughing up possession in advantage for their third. Boro simply punished that and we didn't respond, not even with some guilt-edged chances.

Foderingham 7/10: Possibly our best player. No chance with the goals and did what he could when asked, including picking the ball out of the net
Bogle 6/10: Good going forward at times but part of a sometimes calamitous right side and asked to do so much what with Berge on holiday
Anel 6.5/10: Good in parts but still showing critical vulnerability and lack of judgement at times. Key tackle in the second half which gets him a whole point
Egan 6/10: Trying to shepherd Archer and Akpom out on his own at times
JLT 5/10: Exposed and run at by their three man front line. Got into a verbal tangle at the end with one of our fans in the JSS
Lowe 5.5/10: Fairly vanilla game for him. Tried forays up the line but had his hands full too much traking back as they quickly broke to have any real effect
Berge 4/10: Disappointing game. It seems he only switches on when the ball is near him. His off the ball work tonight was poor, even after a promising start
Norwood 4/10: Poor game, telegraphing balls and coughing up possession. Boro simply cancelled him out
McAtee 5/10: And only just. Out muscled somewhat and frustratingly clumsy on the ball tonight
N'Daiye 6/10: Plenty of graft and industry but some disappointing finishing
McBurnie 6/10: he can only do what he can do with the ball in front of goal. Tonight he was a bit 'last year'

Jebbison 5/10: Brought on to go 4-3-3 then 4-4-2. Spooned a sitter header over the bar when we really needed a goal
Osborn 5/10: No fucking idea why he is the answer when Coullibally is sat on the bench. No real effect. Again.

HJ&SMcC 3/10: Aside from Hecky's daft red card we didn't change the game at half time and go on the attack. And the substitutes were characteristically late and misplaced. We can't afford to lose the game v Millwall, so need consistency and the ability to open teams up. Boro were technically much better than us tonight, especially capitalising on chances and working the counter attack into chances. We don't do that and it shows. Tonight was a lesson and it was predictable. It needs not be the start of our slide.

pommpey
Click to expand...

More or less it. We saw the second and third best teams in the Championship last night and the second best team won easily in the end.
 
Let’s be honest we had been coming for a while & this was the game it finally caught up with us .
They won the game in midfield & there extra man in there told .
Yes they got breaks with the 2nd & 3rd goals & also think if Ndiaye slots the ball home instead of trying to nutmeg the keeper just after our first there might have been a different outcome ?
All in all Boro were the better side even taking the above into account.
For all the noise around this morning the fact still remains we are 7 points clear of them with a game in hand & rather be in that position than chasing .
Hopefully this will give our lot a kick up the arse & we see the job through.
They way Boro were celebrating at the end they think it’s a done job … there’s still an awful lot of points up grabs .
Get behind the lads & let’s see where it takes us ⚔️
 
Pressure is a funny thing. They’ve been so far behind, they genuinely have nothing to lose. If they close the gap and the rubber starts to meet the road, let’s see what happens. Bigger, better teams have choked. There’s plenty of football left
 
MagnifiqueShorehamStreet said:
We’ll see at the end of the season.The table never lies.
The Blades will do it, as the players will hold their nerve, and prove they are better and classier than a lot of their so-called fans.
Click to expand...

What's that supposed to mean? I love this 'so-called fans' shit. We're all fucking fans. We differ in opinions. Stop making it out like its something else or that you're more a billy big blade than others who simply see things differently. It might shock you to the core to discover we all want success for our football team but the general consensus is that we were bound to catch a cold sooner or later. If you think we played any better than we think they played, lets see your assessment and comments rather than snide sideswipes.

pommpey
 

I've had issues previously with your take but always read it regardless. I think you've nailed it this time.
 
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