Money bags Blades.

[boo radley]

I don't quite understand what the difference is between loan debt and mortgage debt? Both carry interest, both have to be paid back either monthly or at the end of a fixed term ie interest only mortgage. I don't see why one would be better than the other in terms of what has to be paid back out of assest that have very probably dropped significantly in value. If we have a loan that needs refinancing in say 5 years then we'd better hope the properties can be sold on at a price where we will have enough cash to pay the bank. If we have a monthly repayment loan then we need to find cash on a monthly basis to repay the bank (ignoring interest). Is that what you are getting at, ie a loan gives us breathing space compared with a mortgage which is paid back monthly?

I'm asking out of curiousity and also because I am deeply pissed off about McCabe and his property deals affecting SUFC.

As explained in your other thread. if its a loan it would be a fixed rate (10%) maybe no matter what happens. If its a morgage then it may be variable. If so SUFC at the moment are on to a winner because of prescent interest rates.

 

[Revolution]

if its a loan it would be a fixed rate (10%) maybe no matter what happens.

A loan can also carry variable interest.

 

[sheffielder]

I don't quite understand what the difference is between loan debt and mortgage debt? Both carry interest, both have to be paid back either monthly or at the end of a fixed term ie interest only mortgage. I don't see why one would be better than the other in terms of what has to be paid back out of assest that have very probably dropped significantly in value. If we have a loan that needs refinancing in say 5 years then we'd better hope the properties can be sold on at a price where we will have enough cash to pay the bank. If we have a monthly repayment loan then we need to find cash on a monthly basis to repay the bank (ignoring interest). Is that what you are getting at, ie a loan gives us breathing space compared with a mortgage which is paid back monthly?

I'm asking out of curiousity and also because I am deeply pissed off about McCabe and his property deals affecting SUFC.

Ok Mic, I will bite again... So this money that we have took on loan/mortgage... What did we take it out for? It obviously wasn't to cover football debts so we must have assets against it as the property side wouldn't have footed the other half? yes? Your speaking as though we have all this debt against nothing and we have no assets. Also from a previous post don't think that our assets are sat their empty.. You don't just sit on all your commercial property until you can sell it, you rent/lease it which will cover the costs of your loan/mortgage or whatever. Some will probably be pure land investments. As ever you are only looking at half the story unless you want to breakdown the full 50 million debt that you len and alco say we are in..

 

[Finance Blade]

I have hypothethical question for you all. If Mr McCabe took over all our debts personally and all the assets that were bought with the debts. Would club be able to function and pay its bills. (ie Survive on Gate receipts and Sponsorship money alone.)

 

[boo radley]

I have hypothethical question for you all. If Mr McCabe took over all our debts personally and all the assets that were bought with the debts. Would club be able to function and pay its bills. (ie Survive on Gate receipts and Sponsorship money alone.)

Welcome Mr mysterious Sorry your question got lost because of my curiosity about you. Not many postings for a year and a bit but your name suggests you know more than us? Not hard as we just have hearsay. (Boo typed cautiously).

 

[mickerz-blade]

Ok Mic, I will bite again... So this money that we have took on loan/mortgage... What did we take it out for? It obviously wasn't to cover football debts so we must have assets against it as the property side wouldn't have footed the other half? yes? Your speaking as though we have all this debt against nothing and we have no assets. Also from a previous post don't think that our assets are sat their empty.. You don't just sit on all your commercial property until you can sell it, you rent/lease it which will cover the costs of your loan/mortgage or whatever. Some will probably be pure land investments. As ever you are only looking at half the story unless you want to breakdown the full 50 million debt that you len and alco say we are in..

Funny how when a straight question about finance is asked, no one answers. They have had all the international break but it is still all a mystery.

 

[MunXy]

to my mind, when a club as ilustrious as Liverpool can be in so much trouble then look at dept other clubs are in, pompy almost going out of buisness etc etc then consider our debt vs assets, now remember we are all looking at this as pure conjecture and KM will not just tell anyone he bumps into at the royal standard his exact dealings regarding SUFC,and also considering KM is still in buisness, i would have to say SUFC may be in a far better position than quite a lot of other clubs including some in premiership and probably in a prime position when this financial crisis changes, where as others who have raised thier debts to cover a possible future promotion/success then id guess things arn't so bad as some doomsayers are suggesting.

MunXy

 

[Micalijo]

http://www.digitallook.com/companyresearch/824267/Valad_Property_Group/share_prices.html

Looking good.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

Funny how when a straight question about finance is asked, no one answers. They have had all the international break but it is still all a mystery.

You've got to be kidding me. Cannot debate seriously with someone who thinks I am unaware that these assets will be rented out and unaware that the debt has created assets. I think it will be a struggle to get tennants to pay enough to avoid losses but I aint daft and I know that investment properties are rentied out with the intention of generating cash to meet loan obligations. If the value of the property is down and if tennants are going bust then you still have a serious problem. (see Realty accounst where assets do not equal debts).

 

[SoccerCynic]

Stole this titbit from the Star website..any knowledge or views anyone

"To all the blades who read this i live in malaysia and the guy who is buying into your club is bankrupt and facing bankrupt charges he has been a naughty boy i did try and post it on the bit from trevor birch who knows he is not going to invest as he has no money to invest,and will not pass the fit and proper test and would you want him after knowing he has bankrupcy issues? so trevor birch is just trying to keep the hope going when he knows the situation!! how can talks be going on? lies of the lane

www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/9/4/nation/20100904234321&sec=nation

it is big news here in malaysia as he is well known and they are looking to jail him!!

www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/9/4/nation/6977984&sec=nation birch is stringing you all on


If this bloke really is the Malaysian connection we can forget that....and seriously question the competency of Trevor Birch

 

[Micalijo]

Stole this titbit from the Star website..any knowledge or views anyone

"To all the blades who read this i live in malaysia and the guy who is buying into your club is bankrupt and facing bankrupt charges he has been a naughty boy i did try and post it on the bit from trevor birch who knows he is not going to invest as he has no money to invest,and will not pass the fit and proper test and would you want him after knowing he has bankrupcy issues? so trevor birch is just trying to keep the hope going when he knows the situation!! how can talks be going on? lies of the lane

www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/9/4/nation/20100904234321&sec=nation

it is big news here in malaysia as he is well known and they are looking to jail him!!

www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/9/4/nation/6977984&sec=nation birch is stringing you all on


If this bloke really is the Malaysian connection we can forget that....and seriously question the competency of Trevor Birch

Excellent stuff Cynic, love it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Excellent stuff Cynic, love it.

You love that if we were looking to get money in from that guy (no proof whatsoever that we this is the guy in question mind) that now wouldn't be happening?

 

[mickerz-blade]

http://www.digitallook.com/companyresearch/824267/Valad_Property_Group/share_prices.html

Looking good.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------



You've got to be kidding me. Cannot debate seriously with someone who thinks I am unaware that these assets will be rented out and unaware that the debt has created assets. I think it will be a struggle to get tennants to pay enough to avoid losses but I aint daft and I know that investment properties are rentied out with the intention of generating cash to meet loan obligations. If the value of the property is down and if tennants are going bust then you still have a serious problem. (see Realty accounst where assets do not equal debts).

Its simple Mic. Us thickos dont know what we do and dont own. You seem to want to confuse us more by quoting certain things we dont understand.
So, can you give us the complete breakdown on Sheffield United and how much of which company they own?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

You love that if we were looking to get money in from that guy (no proof whatsoever that we this is the guy in question mind) that now wouldn't be happening?

Kind of sums up some of the posters on here. At times it makes you very suspicious of their agenda and who they actually support. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but some of the comments are embarrasing and it beggars belief that as a "supporter" you would say such things.

I'm as baffled as you are Bob.

 

[raul]

So it would be a good thing to get investment from a bankrupt/person of dubious background then Steel City? Don't know if you are aware, but there's these two blokes called Hicks and Gillett.......bloke called David Moores trousered loads of "their" cash and said what great guys they'd be.........Man City got a great owner too, until his country brought him home to face fraud and human rights abuse charges......and what about the wonderful non-money laundering people who helped put Pompey on the map?

Now, more than ever before, fans of all clubs need to be more vigilant about the financial dealings in and around their clubs.

I should add, for the purposes of the current context, that I do not take the rumour of this potential investor as absolute fact, merely that newspaper headlines about "successful businessmen" should no longer be taken at face value in these situations anymore.

 

[boo radley]

So it would be a good thing to get investment from a bankrupt/person of dubious background then Steel City? Don't know if you are aware, but there's these two blokes called Hicks and Gillett.......bloke called David Moores trousered loads of "their" cash and said what great guys they'd be.........Man City got a great owner too, until his country brought him home to face fraud and human rights abuse charges......and what about the wonderful non-money laundering people who helped put Pompey on the map?

Now, more than ever before, fans of all clubs need to be more vigilant about the financial dealings in and around their clubs.

I should add, for the purposes of the current context, that I do not take the rumour of this potential investor as absolute fact, merely that newspaper headlines about "successful businessmen" should no longer be taken at face value in these situations anymore.

He's not saying that nor was Bob, They are saying its amazing how people seem to rub there hands together with glee at the prospect we have not got investment. We all know investment has to be of the right type and person but to delight at the fact that someone was found out to be not fit is pathetic. to be dissapointed that they were found out is fine. dont tell me that they were delighting in the fact that we hadnot been duped.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

Kind of sums up some of the posters on here. At times it makes you very suspicious of their agenda and who they actually support. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but some of the comments are embarrasing and it beggars belief that as a "supporter" you would say such things.

I'm as baffled as you are Bob.

Be careful SCB you cannot say that Olle'll be on the war path for you. I said a similar thing and got a Gorrilling for it in his tumbleweed thread.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

So it would be a good thing to get investment from a bankrupt/person of dubious background then Steel City? Don't know if you are aware, but there's these two blokes called Hicks and Gillett.......bloke called David Moores trousered loads of "their" cash and said what great guys they'd be.........Man City got a great owner too, until his country brought him home to face fraud and human rights abuse charges......and what about the wonderful non-money laundering people who helped put Pompey on the map?

Now, more than ever before, fans of all clubs need to be more vigilant about the financial dealings in and around their clubs.

I should add, for the purposes of the current context, that I do not take the rumour of this potential investor as absolute fact, merely that newspaper headlines about "successful businessmen" should no longer be taken at face value in these situations anymore.

I totally agree with you about foreign investors raul and I'm very sceptical of them. But that is going off on another tangent all-together. I'm not suggesting that it is either a good or bad thing at this stage. Unlike some people (not directed at yourself) I am remaining open minded about it.

He's not saying that nor was Bob, They are saying its amazing how people seem to rub there hands together with glee at the prospect we have not got investment. We all know investment has to be of the right type and person but to delight at the fact that someone was found out to be not fit is pathetic. to be dissapointed that they were found out is fine. dont tell me that they were delighting in the fact that we hadnot been duped.

This is more what I was getting at. As boo says it is my (and seemingly boo and bob's) disbelief at "supporters" taking pleasure in potential investment going pear shaped. We should be hopeful that the bloke is legitimate and that he can help us improve matters on the pitch. If he isnt, he isnt fair enough.....but why take something that could potentially be positive (for all we know) and turn it into something negative when there is no proof either way that something positive/negative will come of it.

Personally, I doubt McCabe and Birch would allow the club to be opened up to mal-intent. The fact of the matter is though, that if we want to become a Premier League club again we need external investment. If we dont look for it then we have to settle for being second rate until the British football pyramid and its economy changes. We can either be pro-active or sit around and wait for things around us to change. The directors are trying the former.

 

[Kenilworth]

He's not saying that nor was Bob, They are saying its amazing how people seem to rub there hands together with glee at the prospect we have not got investment. We all know investment has to be of the right type and person but to delight at the fact that someone was found out to be not fit is pathetic. to be dissapointed that they were found out is fine. dont tell me that they were delighting in the fact that we hadnot been duped.

You are right Boo. If there was to be investment the last thing we need is anyone dodgy or corrupt but for people to be pleased another line of investment has come to nothing - just because it has not happened and we are still in the pooh - is bizarre.

BTW didnt spot the other posting of the new thread I made - even though I did scan this thread - too long since I last went to spec savers, obviously. Having said that it might warrant a separate thread on it's own.

 

[lenners]

Club £50m in debt, mortgaged and loaned up to the hilt, claims it is going to/wants to get investment through some kind of vague partnership with owner.
How or why is this going to happen?

 

[boo radley]

Club £50m in debt, mortgaged and loaned up to the hilt, claims it is going to/wants to get investment through some kind of vague partnership with owner.
How or why is this going to happen?

It's not...

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I think it is, and I've got a bottle of mulled wine on it too.

 

[lenners]

I think it is, and I've got a bottle of mulled wine on it too.

Haven't you already told us this many months ago?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Haven't you already told us this many months ago?

Repetition is awful isnt it!

 

[boo radley]

I think it is, and I've got a bottle of mulled wine on it too.

So the investment is going to be vague? but we are having it anyway?

 

[lenners]

Repetition is awful isnt it!

If it ain't based in reality, sure is.

 

[raul]

I believe it's two bottles. And Bobert will be supplying and not consuming.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It's two bottles now is it. fair enough

Don't know what Len is getting at? If it is that I said months ago that we were looking at investment landing around Christmas, yes I did.
I don't claim that everything I think will happen does and I'm quite happy to buy Raul these bottles and a pint if I'm wrong. Its just a bit of fun FFS.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

It's two bottles now is it. fair enough

Don't know what Len is getting at? If it is that I said months ago that we were looking at investment landing around Christmas, yes I did.
I don't claim that everything I think will happen does and I'm quite happy to buy Raul these bottles and a pint if I'm wrong. Its just a bit of fun FFS.

Fun? Whats that?

I thought this forum was about being miserable and putting a downer on everything?!!!!

 

[boo radley]

Fun? Whats that?

I thought this forum was about being miserable and putting a downer on everything?!!!!

Now your getting it SCB

 

[Micalijo]

Fun? Whats that?

I thought this forum was about being miserable and putting a downer on everything?!!!!

Well you certainly had the hang of it with your ridiculously negative views on the Watford game.

And yes, you reading too much into the stuff about our Malaysian friends. I just find it highly amusing, which is what we are after isn't it?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

all this off the back of a unconfirmed report in a paper we know nothing about. The best bit (and my personal favourite) is we have no idea if this is the guy or not.