Michael Tonge Part 2

[Jim Chimmerney]

I know we had a similar thread after his PNE debut but when did he learn to tackle ?

All over the pitch last night, tracking back, harrying midfielders, tackling, surging forward, I couldn't believe it. For me, the best game I've seen him play for about 4 years ! OK, may be 'loan syndrome' but was just about the best player on the pitch last night.

I would have been dead against him coming back but after seeing him last night, if the price is right.....

 

[oldblade]

I know we had a similar thread after his PNE debut but when did he learn to tackle ?

All over the pitch last night, tracking back, harrying midfielders, tackling, surging forward, I couldn't believe it. For me, the best game I've seen him play for about 4 years ! OK, may be 'loan syndrome' but was just about the best player on the pitch last night.

I would have been dead against him coming back but after seeing him last night, if the price is right.....

If anyone had cared to actually watch Michael Tonge whilst he was here they would have noticed that he used to tackle then as well. He just wasn't particularly good at it, but he did not welch out of tackles or try and avoid them.

This was done to death on the old BU site, but as far as I'm concerned he was a very good player who was unfairly labelled a one season wonder. Only those with very selective eyesight could ever come to that conclusion. He was very good in 2002-3, 2003-4 (was credited with a huge number of assists that season), 2005-6 (when he returned from injury) and during the premier league season. And once Robson had gone, he played a major part in the upturn of our fortunes for the closing dozen or so matches.

Bergen actually did a minute by minute analysis of one of his performances at the beginning of last season to show exactly what his contribution was. But as stated on other threads, still there were those who continued to try and argue that black was white and right was left.

It got to the stage where however good his performance was, some people would would focus on the one misplaced pass , or the one poor shot.

In one match (possibly his last - at home to Watford), I remember him getting the ball outside the area centrally placed to the goal. He shot and it flew over. Cue much cursing and abuse. Later in the game, Speed got the ball in an identical position and also took a shot with the same result. Cue applause and shouts of 'good effort' etc.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I agree that you see what yuo want to see and as you may remember, I was one of his biggest critics but I certainly don't remember many performances like last night in the last 3 or 4 years.

 

[oldblade]

I didn't see the game last night, but one performance that springs to mind is the one against Hull towards the end of 2007-8 when we were down to 10 men. Tonge was brilliant in all respects that day.

He was a player who actually looked very good in the premier league. I know before that season we had discussions on nwhich of our players would be able to step up to the higher grade. I felt he was one of them. And surprisingly, Montgomery was another.

 

[Santos]

I know we had a similar thread after his PNE debut but when did he learn to tackle ?

All over the pitch last night, tracking back, harrying midfielders, tackling, surging forward, I couldn't believe it. For me, the best game I've seen him play for about 4 years ! OK, may be 'loan syndrome' but was just about the best player on the pitch last night.

I would have been dead against him coming back but after seeing him last night, if the price is right.....

Meh, jack of all trades, master of none ;-)

 

[lenners]

I agree that you see what yuo want to see and as you may remember, I was one of his biggest critics but I certainly don't remember many performances like last night in the last 3 or 4 years.

He was excellent at the back end of the Premier League season.
Quality footballer, technically gifted, temperamentally-challenged but still more than good enough at this level.
Blackwell is unlikely to be the right guy to get the best from him, Irvine may well be.

 

[judge]

He was excellent at the back end of the Premier League season.
Quality footballer, technically gifted, temperamentally-challenged but still more than good enough at this level.
Blackwell is unlikely to be the right guy to get the best from him, Irvine may well be.

totally agree ,tongey was outstanding in the prem in the run in
i also thought he was a key player in the promotion run in and even remember him coming in for dogs abuse by unitedites under robbo when i came away from the game thinking he had run his bollox off

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

He was excellent at the back end of the Premier League season.
Quality footballer, technically gifted, temperamentally-challenged but still more than good enough at this level.
Blackwell is unlikely to be the right guy to get the best from him, Irvine may well be.

On his day I agree but my (and many others) problem with him in his last few seasons with us was that 'his day' didn't come around often enough. For every game people can say he was brilliant, chances are there were 2 or 3 either side when he wasn't.

 

[Ollessendro]

i also thought he was a key player in the promotion run in

Just beat me to it. He was fantastic in the promotion season. If you all remember Warnock dropped him for the start of the season and it really put a rocket up his arse. He was spot on after that.

I distinctly remember one goal (in the promotion season) that he set up. Around the centre circle the opposition were carrying the ball forward and Tongue came in and clattered the guy. It was shoulder to shoulder and hence legal (although many times a foul would be given) he then took the ball and turning defence into attack put through a defence spiltting ball for one of our strikers to score. Daz/Foxy maybe you can remember the goal?

If anyone had cared to actually watch Michael Tonge whilst he was here they would have noticed that he used to tackle then as well. He just wasn't particularly good at it, but he did not welch out of tackles or try and avoid them.

This was done to death on the old BU site, but as far as I'm concerned he was a very good player who was unfairly labelled a one season wonder. Only those with very selective eyesight could ever come to that conclusion. He was very good in 2002-3, 2003-4 (was credited with a huge number of assists that season), 2005-6 (when he returned from injury) and during the premier league season. And once Robson had gone, he played a major part in the upturn of our fortunes for the closing dozen or so matches.

Bergen actually did a minute by minute analysis of one of his performances at the beginning of last season to show exactly what his contribution was. But as stated on other threads, still there were those who continued to try and argue that black was white and right was left.

It got to the stage where however good his performance was, some people would would focus on the one misplaced pass , or the one poor shot.

In one match (possibly his last - at home to Watford), I remember him getting the ball outside the area centrally placed to the goal. He shot and it flew over. Cue much cursing and abuse. Later in the game, Speed got the ball in an identical position and also took a shot with the same result. Cue applause and shouts of 'good effort' etc.

Amen brother.

 

[lenners]

On his day I agree but my (and many others) problem with him in his last few seasons with us was that 'his day' didn't come around often enough. For every game people can say he was brilliant, chances are there were 2 or 3 either side when he wasn't.

His day certainly came around a lot more often than days have for our midfield this season.
Unfairly maligned and I look forward to any of our midfielders putting one in the 'T' between post and bar any time soon.

 

[Robbie]

I look forward to any of our midfielders putting one in the 'T' between post and bar any time soon.

SQuinn do it for you?

 

[oldblade]

Oops, hit the wrong button!

 

[lenners]

SQuinn do it for you?

If he finds the same square foot in April and the goal takes us within a couple of points of promotion, I'll settle for that.

 

[oldblade]

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Another criticism often thrown his way was that he only performed well once in every 5 or 6 games.

That was always an utterly absurd criticism that just did not fit in with the facts. He was excellent throughout the 2002-3 season. He was then moved to a more central role in 2003-4 to try and accommadate the impending loss of Brown. But, he still performed very well and consistently throughout that season, registering a huge number of assists.

I don't remember him much during the 2004-5 season, so his performance may well have dropped off that season. And I think it was from then on that the Tonge knockers just blatantly refused to see all the good performances he put in.

In the second half of 2005-6 when he was once again a regular, he again hit high levels of performance, and did it consistently. Matches that immediately spring to mind are when he scored a great goal against Brighton - running onto a through ball from Kabba. Kept his composure when in a one on one with the goalkeeper. Also got a great equaliser against Luton. Edit - And how could I forget his superb free kick against Wednesday!


In the premier league season when selected he was one of our best performers.

The following season he didn't perform very well when selected under Robson, but noone else did either, so I don't see that he should be singled out for criticism during that period. However, when Blackwell first became manager and we started to play attacking, high tempo football (why don't we do it now?!!) he performed consistently well until the end of the season.

So I'm at a loss to figure out where the 'he only performed well once in 5 or 6 matches' brigade get their evidence from, because it certainly isn't from matches in which Michael Tonge was playing.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Blackwell is unlikely to be the right guy to get the best from him

I don't agree with that. Tonge's best, consistent run of form was 2002-2003 when Blackwell was our coach and in the 18 league games that he played for Blackwell the Manager, our record was P18, W10, D4, L4 = 34 pts at 1.89 per game. What makes you think they wouldn't work well together?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I don't remember him much during the 2004-5 season, so his performance may well have dropped off that season.

The following season he didn't perform very well when selected under Robson.

So I'm at a loss to figure out where the 'he only performed well once in 5 or 6 matches' brigade get their evidence from, because it certainly isn't from matches in which Michael Tonge was playing.

You've pretty much argued against yourself there !

 

[lenners]

I don't agree with that. Tonge's best, consistent run of form was 2002-2003 when Blackwell was our coach and in the 18 league games that he played for Blackwell the Manager, our record was P18, W10, D4, L4 = 34 pts at 1.89 per game. What makes you think they wouldn't work well together?

The Blackwell of today, not yesteryear.

 

[Bramley]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another criticism often thrown his way was that he only performed well once in every 5 or 6 games.

That was always an utterly absurd criticism that just did not fit in with the facts. He was excellent throughout the 2002-3 season. He was then moved to a more central role in 2003-4 to try and accommadate the impending loss of Brown. But, he still performed very well and consistently throughout that season, registering a huge number of assists.

I don't remember him much during the 2004-5 season, so his performance may well have dropped off that season. And I think it was from then on that the Tonge knockers just blatantly refused to see all the good performances he put in.

In the second half of 2005-6 when he was once again a regular, he again hit high levels of performance, and did it consistently. Matches that immediately spring to mind are when he scored a great goal against Brighton - running onto a through ball from Kabba. Kept his composure when in a one on one with the goalkeeper. Also got a great equaliser against Luton. Edit - And how could I forget his superb free kick against Wednesday!


In the premier league season when selected he was one of our best performers.

The following season he didn't perform very well when selected under Robson, but noone else did either, so I don't see that he should be singled out for criticism during that period. However, when Blackwell first became manager and we started to play attacking, high tempo football (why don't we do it now?!!) he performed consistently well until the end of the season.

So I'm at a loss to figure out where the 'he only performed well once in 5 or 6 matches' brigade get their evidence from, because it certainly isn't from matches in which Michael Tonge was playing.

Tonge, Kenny, Morgan and Montgomery - 4 players who for some reason never quite get the praise they are due. Yet one game wonders like Cotterill, Ribeiro are considered by some to be the second coming of Christ.

 

[oldblade]

You've pretty much argued against yourself there !

Don't think so, unless you think that being a bit non descript for around 60 out of 260 appearances equals only 1 in 5 or 6 good performances! (And I note you edited out large chunks of my post to make that point.)

The arithmetic doesn't quite support that argument, but it does suggest that he probably had 1 bad performance in every 5 or 6 games, rather than the other way around.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Don't think so, unless you think that being a bit non descript for around 60 out of 260 appearances equals only 1 in 5 or 6 good performances!

The arithmetic doesn't quite support that argument, but it does suggest that he probably had 1 bad performance in every 5 or 6 games, rather than the other way around.

Just pointing out that you accuse people of exhagerating (sp?) the number of bad games but are happy to completely dismiss a whole season !

As much as Tonge-haters concentrate on the negatives, his fans will inevitably concentrate on the positives, as it is with Paddy, Monty, Hendo, Cotts and the rest My gripe with Tongy was always consistency, we knew he could do it, in many games he did but for many more games he didn't.

 

[oldblade]

His day certainly came around a lot more often than days have for our midfield this season.
Unfairly maligned and I look forward to any of our midfielders putting one in the 'T' between post and bar any time soon.

And that was one of many very good goals that he scored. The free kick against West Ham, the goal against Brighton inn 2005-6, the free kick at Gillingham in 2001-2, the goal (free kick?) against Luton in 2005-6, goal versus Derby in 2002-3 etc, etc.

 

[oldblade]

Just pointing out that you accuse people of exhagerating (sp?) the number of bad games but are happy to completely dismiss a whole season !

As much as Tonge-haters concentrate on the negatives, his fans will inevitably concentrate on the positives, as it is with Paddy, Monty, Hendo, Cotts and the rest My gripe with Tongy was always consistency, we knew he could do it, in many games he did but for many more games he didn't.

I didn't dismiss it. I actually listed it as being one where he probably didn't perform well and identified it as being the start of the unfair slatings that he used to get from some people. Seems to me that's hardly dismissing it. Although it has to be said he did play very well that season against Aston Villa in the cup.

However, I did put the season within the context of his 7 and a bit seasons playing for us. One and a half poor seasons in 7 seasons hardly amounts to 4 in 5, or 5 in 6 poor performances.

 

[JohnDenver]

I watched the game last night and monitored Tonge in particular. To me he had a decent game, but no better or worse than I recall his usual form was for us.

I pondered the option of him coming back to us, but the idea of the knobhead element we have jeering his name made me hope he doesn't come back. Which, I think, is rather tragic.

There are two worldy truths in all this.

1, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.
&
2, the world will always have its idiots.

 

[oldblade]

The problem is that some of us did realise what we had before it went, and didn't want it to go in the first place.

 

[Micalijo]

I watched the game last night and monitored Tonge in particular. To me he had a decent game, but no better or worse than I recall his usual form was for us.

I pondered the option of him coming back to us, but the idea of the knobhead element we have jeering his name made me hope he doesn't come back. Which, I think, is rather tragic.

There are two worldy truths in all this.

1, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.
&
2, the world will always have its idiots.

Totally agree - I'd rather he never played for us again if it meant I never had to hear the mass groans as soon as he misplaced a pass.

 

[JohnDenver]

The problem is that some of us did realise what we had before it went, and didn't want it to go in the first place.

I'm an unreconstructed Tongista. It was a sad day when he left: no more splay-footed midfield meanderings with the occasional threat of genius. And he's the only player I've seen who heads a ball with even less conviction than me, so I love him for that as well.

We never seem to have many skillful footballers in our squads, and to lose one is never good (even one as flakey and dim-witted as Cotts).

But when it's a player who has done as much for your club as Michael Tonge, it's particularly sad. Tonge, Jags and Monty were emblematic of an era.

Godspeed, Michael Tonge!

 

[tyneblade]

I'll never forget

" " TONGE .... limped off 10 minutes from the end of the 3-0 win over Watford at Vicarage Road ... the 19-year-old was ... suffering from cramp.

He said: "I get it quite a bit. It's a combination of not drinking enough fluids before a game and the fact the club socks are really tight.

"I am convinced the socks are restricting the blood flow around my calves.

"I probably need to warm up even better to stop it happening again. Luckily, it's not a serious injury." "

Most of Michael's problems are tightly wrapped up there.

 

[shorehamview]

The Blackwell of today, not yesteryear.

Ah yes. When Blackwell left his position as Warnock's assistant he was a tactical genius, and all the good bits about us were solely down to him, and Warnock would struggle more than a one-legged man in an arse kicking contest.

Now Blackwell is in charge here he's a useless idiot with no tactical idea whatsoever. Are you really telling me that Blackwell has forgotten all his footballing knowledge in a few years? Why has he changed from the man who held it all together, the brains behind Warnock, to a bloke incapable of running a hook-a-duck stall?

Or it that just too simple a viewpoint? I'm not stating that he is a genius, but it's too simple a view that the Blackwell of yesteryear was a tactician beyond compare and now he's clueless.

 

[oldblade]

I think events since 2002-3 have conclusively exploded the myth that it was all Blackwell's doing that we did so well in that season.

 

[Bladesway]

Tonge, Kenny, Morgan and Montgomery - 4 players who for some reason never quite get the praise they are due. Yet one game wonders like Cotterill, Ribeiro are considered by some to be the second coming of Christ.

Are you ill? Who in their right mind has ever argued was the second coming of anything at BDTBL? You are ill aren't you? You make things up in your head.

Oh and Tonge, may have been great, may have been average. He needed a move and he picked the wrong club. But whatever the case he shouldn't come back.