Merry Christmas Pinchy

[Pinchy]

I was making no comment on how a person with mental health problems would react to what you wrote and don't see that as an issue. I would have thought my comment was simple and straightforward enough. Calling BTL bonkers for what he wrote was just a little over the top.

Okay but his assertion that there is no difference between a targeted accurate long pass (a delight) and an aimless punt (utter garbage) IS bonkers isn't it? Or are we all gazing through the looking glass and polishing our touchstones now?...

 

[blade too long]

That was after Harris's second promotion.

After his first promotion we finished 5th in our first season up, and remained in the first division for 7 seasons - the longest any manager has kept us in the top flight since 1920s/30s when we were run by a committee rather than a manager. So, technically that is the longest ever run achieved in the top flight by any Sheffield United manager.

already said , different era
11 a side no subs players on 50 quid a week

no comparison at all

 

[blade too long]

In 1990-91 we spent £650,000 on Vinny Jones, £300,000 on Brian Marwood, £375,000 on Paul Beesley, £300,000 on John Pemberton and £250,000 on Jamie Hoyland. We also brought in Glynn Hodges on loan.

was a great deal less than clubs like Coventry,

really some random Coventry purchases

January 1990 Kevin Gallacher Dundee United £900,000
September 1994 Dion Dublin Manchester United £1,950,000
December 1995 Noel Whelan Leeds United £2,000,000
July 1996 Gary McAllister Leeds United £3,000,000

 

[sitwell]

No, Richard Stacey. I have known Alan since I left school but not seen him for about 5 years even though he is in my FB friends list. I see Alan's younger daughter now and then. She is a good laugh. Alan isnt interested in football. Richard is a Wendy fan and got to know quite a lot of footballers in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Said Chris Wilder is a nice man to talk to, same for Mark Todd, likes Tony Agana too. Said Wally Downes liked to take the piss out of people especially Francis Joseph

I thought I saw Dummy a few weeks ago in the Copthorne pete ,after not seeing him for a few years ,would it be him ?

 

[Silent Blade]

I thought I saw Dummy a few weeks ago in the Copthorne pete ,after not seeing him for a few years ,would it be him ?

Mick now lives in Leicester, not a Lane regular this season but will be there tomorrow. Always likes to have a drink until after the kick off

 

[oldblade]

really some random Coventry purchases

January 1990 Kevin Gallacher Dundee United £900,000
September 1994 Dion Dublin Manchester United £1,950,000
December 1995 Noel Whelan Leeds United £2,000,000
July 1996 Gary McAllister Leeds United £3,000,000

The only relevant one there is Kevin Gallagher, and he cost about half as much as we spent the others were that year. The others you list are 4, 5 and 6 years after the Bassett transfers I listed.

 

[oldblade]

already said , different era
11 a side no subs players on 50 quid a week

no comparison at all

I beg to differ. The maximum wage had already been abolished before that first Harris promotion.

And you seem happy to compare with the 1971-74 years which were also a different era.

 

[blade too long]

The only relevant one there is Kevin Gallagher, and he cost about half as much as we spent the others were that year. The others you list are 4, 5 and 6 years after the Bassett transfers I listed.

well you quoted all the struggling clubs who were in the bottom 6 under us
what about those who finished above us
how many of those spent less

1 Manchester United (C) 42 24 12 6 67 31 +36 84 1993–94 UEFA Champions LeagueFirst round
2 Aston Villa 42 21 11 10 57 40 +17 74 1993–94 UEFA Cup First round
3 Norwich City 42 21 9 12 61 65 −4 72
4 Blackburn Rovers 42 20 11 11 68 46 +22 71
5 Queens Park Rangers 42 17 12 13 63 55 +8 63
6 Liverpool 42 16 11 15 62 55 +7 59
7 Sheffield Wednesday 42 15 14 13 55 51 +4 59
8 Tottenham Hotspur 42 16 11 15 60 66 −6 59
9 Manchester City 42 15 12 15 56 51 +5 57
10 Arsenal 42 15 11 16 40 38 +2 56 1993–94 European Cup Winners' CupFirst round 1
11 Chelsea 42 14 14 14 51 54 −3 56
12 Wimbledon 42 14 12 16 56 55 +1 54
13 Everton 42 15 8 19 53 55 −2 53
14 Sheffield United 42 14 10 18 54 53 +1 52
15 Coventry City 42 13 13 16 52 57 −5 52
16 Ipswich Town 42 12 16 14 50 55 −5 52
17 Leeds United 42 12 15 15 57 62 −5 51
18 Southampton 42 13 11 18 54 61 −7 50
19 Oldham Athletic 42 13 10 19 63 74 −11 49
20 Crystal Palace (R) 42 11 16 15 48 61 −13 49 Relegation to 1993–94 Football League First Division
21 Middlesbrough (R) 42 11 11 20 54 75 −21 44
22 Nottingham Forest (R) 42 10 10 22 41 62 −21 40

and dont forget wimbledon bought jones off chelseas before we bought him
http://www.worldfootball.net/transfers/eng-premier-league-1992-1993/

 

[sitwell]

Mick now lives in Leicester, not a Lane regular this season but will be there tomorrow. Always likes to have a drink until after the kick off

It would have been him ,aged a bit and didn't have a tin with him ,that's why I was doubtful

 

[oldblade]

Okay but his assertion that there is no difference between a targeted accurate long pass (a delight) and an aimless punt (utter garbage) IS bonkers isn't it? Or are we all gazing through the looking glass and polishing our touchstones now?...

I don't think he articulated it clearly, but I felt that with regards to the long ball the point he was making was that during the Bassett era we didn't just hoof and hope. We actually sent in a fair number of accurate long passes to Deane.

 

[sitwell]

really some random Coventry purchases

January 1990 Kevin Gallacher Dundee United £900,000
September 1994 Dion Dublin Manchester United £1,950,000
December 1995 Noel Whelan Leeds United £2,000,000
July 1996 Gary McAllister Leeds United £3,000,000

Look at that and still have sympathy with that wanker the other week ? send that to the Stir.

 

[oldblade]

well you quoted all the struggling clubs who were in the bottom 6 under us
what about those who finished above us
how many of those spent less

1 Manchester United (C) 42 24 12 6 67 31 +36 84 1993–94 UEFA Champions LeagueFirst round
2 Aston Villa 42 21 11 10 57 40 +17 74 1993–94 UEFA Cup First round
3 Norwich City 42 21 9 12 61 65 −4 72
4 Blackburn Rovers 42 20 11 11 68 46 +22 71
5 Queens Park Rangers 42 17 12 13 63 55 +8 63
6 Liverpool 42 16 11 15 62 55 +7 59
7 Sheffield Wednesday 42 15 14 13 55 51 +4 59
8 Tottenham Hotspur 42 16 11 15 60 66 −6 59
9 Manchester City 42 15 12 15 56 51 +5 57
10 Arsenal 42 15 11 16 40 38 +2 56 1993–94 European Cup Winners' CupFirst round 1
11 Chelsea 42 14 14 14 51 54 −3 56
12 Wimbledon 42 14 12 16 56 55 +1 54
13 Everton 42 15 8 19 53 55 −2 53
14 Sheffield United 42 14 10 18 54 53 +1 52
15 Coventry City 42 13 13 16 52 57 −5 52
16 Ipswich Town 42 12 16 14 50 55 −5 52
17 Leeds United 42 12 15 15 57 62 −5 51
18 Southampton 42 13 11 18 54 61 −7 50
19 Oldham Athletic 42 13 10 19 63 74 −11 49
20 Crystal Palace (R) 42 11 16 15 48 61 −13 49 Relegation to 1993–94 Football League First Division
21 Middlesbrough (R) 42 11 11 20 54 75 −21 44
22 Nottingham Forest (R) 42 10 10 22 41 62 −21 40

The year I quoted Palace finished third and Wimbledon finished 7th. Coventry may have paid £900,000 for Gallagher, but don't seem to have made any other significantly high value purchases for another 4 years.

 

[blade too long]

The year I quoted Palace finished third and Wimbledon finished 7th. Coventry may have paid £900,000 for Gallagher, but don't seem to have made any other significantly high value purchases for another 4 years.

mickey quinn signed for them off the top of my head
Coventry City » Transfers 1992/1993
In
04/93 Roy Wegerle

FW Blackburn Rovers
03/93 David Rennie

DF Birmingham City
01/93 Keith Rowland

DF AFC Bournemouth
01/93 Leigh Jenkinson

MF Hull City
11/92 Micky Quinn

FW Newcastle United
07/92 Phil Babb

DF Bradford City
07/92 Jonathan Gould

GK West Bromwich Albion

but your not offering any argument for those that finished above us
lets start with blackburn say
your not forwarding them as skinflints
why didnt we buy shearer or sutton
thats the difference between bassetts task and harris

 

[Pinchy]

mickey quinn signed for them off the top of my head

There's a curiosity. Such deals are usually transacted at a hotel or a training ground...

 

[blade too long]

There's a curiosity. Such deals are usually transacted at a hotel or a training ground...

The 1992–93 season saw yet another transfer for Wegerle as Blackburn sold him to Coventry City in March 1993 for £1 million
that blows that theory out the water
we never got close to 1 m

 

[1danewhitehouse]

In 1990-91 we spent £650,000 on Vinny Jones, £300,000 on Brian Marwood, £375,000 on Paul Beesley, £300,000 on John Pemberton and £250,000 on Jamie Hoyland. We also brought in Glynn Hodges on loan.

That's the best part of £2 million spent on transfers. I accept that it's probably not as much as Manchester United and some others, but at the time was a significant amount of money, and I would doubt that it was a great deal less than clubs like Coventry, Luton, Norwich, Southampton, Crystal Palace, Wimbledon, QPR were spending.

Incidentally, Manchester United paid £650,000 for Andrei Kanchelskis in 1991. The same amount that we paid for Vinny Jones a year earlier.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/crystal-palace/transfers/verein/873/saison_id/1990


According to this site, (not sure how accurate),


Palace paid £893,000 for Eric Young

Chelsea paid £1.17 million for Andy Townsend and £2.04million for Dennis Wise

Pigs paid £736,000 for Paul Williams

Saints paid £1.28million for Alan McLoughlin

Leeds paid £1.62million for Rod Wallace and £1.17million for John Lukic

Villa paid £1.89million for Tony Cascarino and £1.07million for Gary Penrice

Liverpool paid £1.06million for Ronnie Rosenthal

Arsenal paid £1.7million for David Seaman

Forest paid £1.49 million for Carl Tiler

West Ham paid £765,000 for Tim Breaker


So at least 10 clubs whose biggest signings eclipsed ours and some of them by a long way.


But I’m more impressed with the dealings of 92-93 when we remained competitive in the premier league with a total spend of £306k for the likes of Kelly, Carr, Scott etc. Meanwhile, the pigs spent a combined £2.72million (nearly 9 times as much!) on Waddle and Bright. They went on to spend over £6million the following year compared to our £867k following the sale of Deane. Tells you all you need to know about the comparative circumstances of the 2 managers.

 

[oldblade]

mickey quinn signed for them off the top of my head

but your not offering any argument for those that finished above us
lets start with blackburn say
your not forwarding them as skinflints

Didn't realise I needed to.

If you read all my posts on this thread you should see that I am not arguing against Bassett or trying to say that everything turned to gold under Harris.

Bassett did a fine job, but in my view Harris was a better manage and produced 'better to watch sides'. They did manage at different times, and football was changing (and continues to do so). But I think you are wrong when you try and make out that Harris had a far more favourable backdrop against which to manage. We were broke under Harris (and sold players to pay for the Bramall Lane stand) just as we were broke under Bassett. We were a long way behind the bigger clubs in terms of what we could spend in the transfer market and for the most part Harris had to sell in order to buy, just as was the case with Bassett.

Both deserve to be seen as two of our better managers, but Harris did achieve a more sustained level of success than Bassett, and just as was the case with Bassett he was maning in difficult circumstances.

 

[raul]

Just goes,,,,, to show,,,,

 

[Lane Ender]

I thought I saw Dummy a few weeks ago in the Copthorne pete ,after not seeing him for a few years ,would it be him ?

Top lad Dummy always up town in the 70s/80s always in the frontline wether at match or a nightclub row.

 

[blade too long]

Didn't realise I needed to.

If you read all my posts on this thread you should see that I am not arguing against Bassett or trying to say that everything turned to gold under Harris.

Bassett did a fine job, but in my view Harris was a better manage and produced 'better to watch sides'. They did manage at different times, and football was changing (and continues to do so). But I think you are wrong when you try and make out that Harris had a far more favourable backdrop against which to manage. We were broke under Harris (and sold players to pay for the Bramall Lane stand) just as we were broke under Bassett. We were a long way behind the bigger clubs in terms of what we could spend in the transfer market and for the most part Harris had to sell in order to buy, just as was the case with Bassett.

Both deserve to be seen as two of our better managers, but Harris did achieve a more sustained level of success than Bassett, and just as was the case with Bassett he was maning in difficult circumstances.

cant argue with a lot of that, but harris was lucky to be in charge when football was a much more level playing field
if man utd turned up and 2 had off games you had a chance , they played at 80 per cent
under bassett , if 2 had a bad day they brought on 2 player s we couldnt dream of owning


I loved Harris and our team then but it has to tempered by the fact it was a different era when teams like us could compete, as it was 11 v 11 not the best we can afford v a 15 or 17 players we cant afford

big squads is whats making the big gulf now

 

[oldblade]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/crystal-palace/transfers/verein/873/saison_id/1990


According to this site, (not sure how accurate),


Palace paid £893,000 for Eric Young

Chelsea paid £1.17 million for Andy Townsend and £2.04million for Dennis Wise

Pigs paid £736,000 for Paul Williams

Saints paid £1.28million for Alan McLoughlin

Leeds paid £1.62million for Rod Wallace and £1.17million for John Lukic

Villa paid £1.89million for Tony Cascarino and £1.07million for Gary Penrice

Liverpool paid £1.06million for Ronnie Rosenthal

Arsenal paid £1.7million for David Seaman

Forest paid £1.49 million for Carl Tiler

West Ham paid £765,000 for Tim Breaker


So at least 10 clubs whose biggest signings eclipsed ours and some of them by a long way.


But I’m more impressed with the dealings of 92-93 when we remained competitive in the premier league with a total spend of £306k for the likes of Kelly, Carr, Scott etc. Meanwhile, the pigs spent a combined £2.72million (nearly 9 times as much!) on Waddle and Bright. They went on to spend over £6million the following year compared to our £867k following the sale of Deane. Tells you all you need to know about the comparative circumstances of the 2 managers.

And on the other side of the coin, 9 clubs didn't (virtually half the division).

I would say that the Wednesday, Palace and West Ham signings hardly 'eclipse' the £650,000 paid out for Vinny Jones. They are a higher spend, but still in the same ball park.

 

[oldblade]

cant argue with a lot of that, but harris was lucky to be in charge when football was a much more level playing field
if man utd turned up and 2 had off games you had a chance , they played at 80 per cent
under bassett , if 2 had a bad day they brought on 2 player s we couldnt dream of owning


I loved Harris and our team then but it has to tempered by the fact it was a different era when teams like us could compete

Yes, but as you have stated in previous posts, a lot of the time under Harris we ended up in mid table. In my view that was because we had no strength in depth. And that was because we couldn't afford it. When we lost players to injury or suspension it affected us far more than Manchester United, Liverpool, Leeds United etc. There were no substitutes for some of Harris's time, but the lack of depth to the squad still hurt us.

 

[blade too long]

Yes, but as you have stated in previous posts, a lot of the time under Harris we ended up in mid table. In my view that was because we had no strength in depth. And that was because we couldn't afford it. When we lost players to injury or suspension it affected us far more than Manchester United, Liverpool, Leeds United etc. There were no substitutes for some of Harris's time, but the lack of depth to the squad still hurt us.

we didnt have the strongest squad, but the others werent light years ahead like the premier league became
we never had big enough brown envelopes at the Lane, other clubs made bonus payments to edge ahead
lack of cash has always been our achiles heel , but the gulf was a stream compared to the pacific ocean it is now

palace cash strapped docked 10 points 10 years ago gleefully sending the pigs down
now 32 m on benteke
its unbelievable

 

[sitwell]

Top lad Dummy always up town in the 70s/80s always in the frontline wether at match or a nightclub row.

I must know you LE ,looking at many of your past posts I could have written them myself. I reckon you are a tad older but were you one of the lads that used to go in Silks after a game ?

 

[Lane Ender]

I must know you LE ,looking at many of your past posts I could have written them myself. I reckon you are a tad older but were you one of the lads that used to go in Silks after a game ?

Yes probably frequent the same watering holes as well
I was a Silks regular so was our kid.

 

[Bladepicker]

Well, you express yourself very well as usual. You make a lot of fervent and heartfelt points. That's the way to do it, much more effective than bleating and waving an imaginary red card in Foxy's face like some Premiership Prima Donna (very unattractive both in the pitch and on a forum.)

I'm afraid people read the headline remarks, not the detail. I have said clearly and repeatedly:

1. Bassett was the right man at the right time. He achieved wonders on limited resources and with limited players.

2. His methods would not work today; that's why he has been unemployable (apart from answering Quickfix's phone) for many years.

3. Although his methods patently would not work, he would still adopt them, as he made clear in a recent interview. That is why he is a dinosaur.

4. I understand why you find my scribbling tiresome. However, I have come to the conclusion that Bassett's legacy - a generation of fans who, against all modern thinking and ignoring the infallible litmus test of "which clubs win things?" favour the most unsophisticated way to play possible; a way you or I could play if we were young and fit enough - is too high a price for three or four years in the sun. We were admired under Harris - loathed and mocked in equal measure under Bassett.

5. It is totally disingenuous of people (BTL is a classic example) to varnish Bassett's style to the ludicrous extent that it is claimed that an exquisite Currie pass is no different to a Jones or Fucking-Downes aimless punt. Anyone who can't see that fundamental distinction simply doesn't understand the game.

5. He's been - he did well - his methods are now wholly redundant - he was never a managerial great - he was one-dimensional - his football pre and post - Deane was mind-numbingly awful. Enter Paul Williams, Jostein Flo and John Francis, to name but three.

6. You can perhaps understand then, why I find repeated references to Bassett as BEYOND FUCKING TIRESOME. He was no Bill Shankly, Bill Nicholson, Brian Clough or even John Harris. He barely merits a mention at any of his other clubs (Alehouse Wimbledon excepted). He is no legend. He won nothing. He left us where he found us and falling fast.

7. Our contributors are, by and large, drawn from the Bassett and Warnock generations. They forget there are those who were not beguiled by either who voted with their feet, certainly in Bassett's day when our Premier League attendances were somewhat embarrassing. He got plenty of stick back in the day, for his style. Make no mistake about that.

8. There is a right way to play. I didn't coin that phrase. It's in continuous use by managers, coaches and players at all levels, not least Tufty. They mean "get it down and play". They mean "pass and move". They mean "play football". They mean play attractive football; not alehouse Sunday League Hoof and Hope.

9. Whilst I may be in a minority in deepest darkest S2, in the real and sensible world, far from derision, anger and imaginary red cards, my views would be met with "Of course Bassett was a long ball merchant. Of course it was unattractive to watch and quite literally a pain in the neck. Of course it's outdated and redundant. Of course it has no utility, point or purpose in the modern game."

10. Warnock:

11. Me, I didn't like his unmerited arrogance, me. I didn't like his style (though it was a little more sophisticated than Bassett's.). I despised his shamefully embarrassing touchline antics.

12. He did well to get us to the Premiership I think, me. At that point KM should have done what he later acknowledged he should. Namely sack Ol' Big Nose and bring in someone of experience in the Prem and a little more of the know-how and sophistication needed at that level. He was totally out of his depth at that level, as he has demonstrated conclusively on numerous occasions. That's why he likes the Championship, him.

13. Sorry if it upsets the party line for some (certainly not all) Blades but, as ever from me, it's the robust, uncomfortable truth. It will still be the truth tomorrow, next week and next year, so I'm afraid I will have to keep pointing it out in order to counter the excesses of those who, probably through little fault of their own, know no better. For this service, I really ought to be thanked and lauded but I have no such expectations.

Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town"

Mark 6:4

I think that is pretty much fair enough. I wasn't around in the 70's so cannot compare era's - however as one of the fans brought up on Bassett and Warnock then of course I hold lots of fond memories of that era. However Basset's style was awful at times of that there can be no doubt. Thank god for Hodges, Bryson, Deane and Agana who compensated for that with some sublime moments of brilliance.

Warnock again had two and a half brilliant seasons - coincidently they were also the seasons when we played by far the most stylish football under him.

The fact remains that in my time watching United, by far and away the best sides to watch were Spackman's team in the first half of the season and what Kendall managed to do with Bassett's hoofers when he took over.

Of course Pinchy plays a caricature that turns these views up to 11 on here (primarily to wind people up) but his points are at least based on an opinion that I agree with whole heartedly. There does seem to be a larger 'gerritforrad' element to United's crowds than some and a feeling that good football and winning football are mutually exclusive.


Also I will point out that an ultra defensive slow passing game with no intent or purpose (such as last season) is every bit as turgid as hooooof.

Basically the key to longer term success and, crucially, success at the top level is good, winning, pass and move football with skillfull players.

We have played long, direct hoofball for the majority of the last 30 odd years, in which time we have greatly underachieved for a club of our size and stature. I personally don't think that is a coincidence.

 

[Ted Hemsleys chads]

Started watching when John Harris was in charge and I loved the bloke. Quiet and unassuming but the way he got his teams playing was great. The Currie, Salmons, Woodward etc. era was fabulous. It was exciting, it was enjoyable, it was fun and will never be repeated. The game's different now, it lost it's soul along the way so I'm glad I was around for the Harris days.

There were some great days following Bassets boys, it was us against the world and I love that shit. There's a lot to be said for a bunch of average Joe's, with a sprinkling of talent, upsetting the upper echelons and that's what we did. Again, these players weren't cheats, they gave their all for us and I have no problem with that.

I always thought Warnock was a twat, still do. He loved himself first and foremost and I don't like that in a man. Gave us some great memories though. Smashing the pigs is always great, but I do blame his cowardice for getting us relegated from the prem.

All 3 were different, all 3 had their moments, it's the nature of the beast. We've had a right mixed bag in between but the current manager has me excited. I like his honesty, I like the way he does business, I think we could be on to something here. The football will be good at times, bad at times and somewhere in between on occasion but I'm not too fussed. Just be successful, get us up the leagues and we'll look back on the Wilder years in 20 years time and argue like fuck about the same stuff we're discussing here. That's life.

 

[Grappler]

No, Richard Stacey. I have known Alan since I left school but not seen him for about 5 years even though he is in my FB friends list. I see Alan's younger daughter now and then. She is a good laugh. Alan isnt interested in football. Richard is a Wendy fan and got to know quite a lot of footballers in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Said Chris Wilder is a nice man to talk to, same for Mark Todd, likes Tony Agana too. Said Wally Downes liked to take the piss out of people especially Francis Joseph

Do you remember Big Jim Moran on the door at Josies as well, good grief, a man-mountain if ever there was one!

 

[Lane Ender]

Started watching when John Harris was in charge and I loved the bloke. Quiet and unassuming but the way he got his teams playing was great. The Currie, Salmons, Woodward etc. era was fabulous. It was exciting, it was enjoyable, it was fun and will never be repeated. The game's different now, it lost it's soul along the way so I'm glad I was around for the Harris days.

There were some great days following Bassets boys, it was us against the world and I love that shit. There's a lot to be said for a bunch of average Joe's, with a sprinkling of talent, upsetting the upper echelons and that's what we did. Again, these players weren't cheats, they gave their all for us and I have no problem with that.

I always thought Warnock was a twat, still do. He loved himself first and foremost and I don't like that in a man. Gave us some great memories though. Smashing the pigs is always great, but I do blame his cowardice for getting us relegated from the prem.

All 3 were different, all 3 had their moments, it's the nature of the beast. We've had a right mixed bag in between but the current manager has me excited. I like his honesty, I like the way he does business, I think we could be on to something here. The football will be good at times, bad at times and somewhere in between on occasion but I'm not too fussed. Just be successful, get us up the leagues and we'll look back on the Wilder years in 20 years time and argue like fuck about the same stuff we're discussing here. That's life.

Good summary that lets move on.

 

[alcoblade]

Also I will point out that an ultra defensive slow passing game with no intent or purpose (such as last season) is every bit as turgid

Spot on.

We've played "anti-hoof" for about a decade, and for the most part it's been truly rubbish. Clough had the luxury of signing an entire squad on extremely expensive terms, and served up complete and utter crap. Adkins had much less flexibility but still faIled to deliver with the opportunities he had, on and off the field.

Both those managers would be classed as purists, yet delivered some of the worst football I've ever witnessed.

Demands to ditch that ponderous style were met with accusations of hoof love, but the reality is Wilder has delivered the football just about everyone demanded and craved. Nobody would describe it as hoof.

This hoof v anti hoof debate rumbles on, and continues to spactacularly miss the point.

UTB