Media's View On The Depature Of Clough

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grafikhaus said:
And if you add in the JPT, if you count pre-season friendlies, if mi auntie had bollocks etc. The only stat. that counts is league form. Look at Hull last season. Getting to the FA Cup Final was undoubtedly thrilling. What will their fixture list for next season say?
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The stat was win ratio. It's a different argument whether it should be *league* win ratio.

And depending on how it's defined we could've been promoted on that League win ratio.

Point being to point purely at the stat and say we're miles off (if anyone is) is not a reasonable conclusion.

Maybe we were miles off (I don't think we were) but that's not what the win ratio shows afaics, no matter which way it's cut.
 

can anyone be arsed to do the ratio for every game since he arrived?? including jpt.. friendlies.. preseason.. thankyou.. just to shut these cup whiners up. look guys.. we are never going to win the bloody cup. .at some point even at Wembley itself we will run into one of the big boys with their first 11 out.. the thing is a delusion of grandeur.. romance of the cup.. blah blah woof woof.
 
Darthblade said:
Fair point here, however, remember that most of the fans who wanted him to stay also inserted the proviso that he "learned from this seasons mistakes".

If the Board, during the meeting on Sunday, decided that he hadn't learned from the mistakes and was likely to continue to piss off the fans with negative tactics, strange team selections, midget midfield and strange recruitment policies ...... that could be why they gave him the bullet.

We must move on now and get behind the new manager, whoever they are ....... although where the fu**ing hell the Piggy Star get Megson / Di Canio from in their verbal crap I have no idea !! :eek:
UTB & FTP
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As always...

Piss off *some of* the (vocal, opinionated) fans.
 
If you look at Clough's managerial stats he appears to be a reasonably good manager with an overall win percentage of 41.7%, however take out the Burton stats which were all achieved at none-league and that drops to 37.6 which is pretty average, (Karl Robinson 46.9% by comparison) add in the fact that he has never actually won anything as a manager and I'm scratching my head to understand why so many thought given time he would come good.

I never wanted Clough in the first place and I'm personally not sorry to see him go. The thing that irritated me was when we took him and his band of merry men on, (which if you recall appeared to be a none-negotiable part of the Clough package) there was this overwhelming feeling that we were supposed to feel "lucky" to have secured his services.
 
super_pig said:
can anyone be arsed to do the ratio for every game since he arrived?? including jpt.. friendlies.. preseason.. thankyou.. just to shut these cup whiners up. look guys.. we are never going to win the bloody cup. .at some point even at Wembley itself we will run into one of the big boys with their first 11 out.. the thing is a delusion of grandeur.. romance of the cup.. blah blah woof woof.
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Presumes:

People are whining about the cup.
Cup runs are about winning the thing.

Don't think either of these are true.

Fwiw my favourite game of last season was Southampton.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
As always...

Piss off *some of* the (vocal, opinionated) fans.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ..... I'm trying to be fair here ( and I myself would have liked him to be given until Xmas to demonstrate that he had learned lessons from this season ) but I think if you're honest, even the people who were very pro-Cloughie wanted him to change some things about his approach and also to learn significant lessons from his errors this year.

I do think that there really were a lot of supporters across all age groups and on both sides of the "Clough divide" who were unhappy with various aspects of his performance this season.

He must have had a pretty bad meeting on Sunday with the Board, for whatever reason. :confused:
UTB & FTP
 
super_pig said:
can anyone be arsed to do the ratio for every game since he arrived?? including jpt.. friendlies.. preseason.. thankyou.. just to shut these cup whiners up. look guys.. we are never going to win the bloody cup. .at some point even at Wembley itself we will run into one of the big boys with their first 11 out.. the thing is a delusion of grandeur.. romance of the cup.. blah blah woof woof.
Click to expand...

grafikhaus said:
And if you add in the JPT, if you count pre-season friendlies, if mi auntie had bollocks etc. The only stat. that counts is league form. Look at Hull last season. Getting to the FA Cup Final was undoubtedly thrilling. What will their fixture list for next season say?
Click to expand...

Do you think the board told Clough from the start not to bother with the cups as the league was all that mattered?
Or were they happy enough to turn up and bask in the "glory" at Wembley and White Hart Lane, spend all the cup proceeds on ground improvements and only then tell Clough that the cups didn't matter and he shouldn't have bothered with them?
 
I just wonder at what point caretaker managers who were employed as a chairman's whim/desperate last measure don't actually count. Surely you manage the team or you don't?
 
super_pig said:
the original argument was that he had a 60 percent win ratio.. this was untrue.. one myth at a time please :D
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There's that much shit flying around this forum it's hard to know where it starts and ends. Suddenly league games are the only ones that count and beating teams from higher divisions is rubbed from the record as well. If that suits your agenda of course.
 
Warnock was on Talksport today saying that we should give it to Morgan.

He also ruled himself out of the running for the manager's job, but said that he would be willing to "help out" if needed.

You can accuse me of "living in the past" and "looking backwards" if you like, but I think we'd be a tough team to beat with Warnock and Morgan sat in the dugout
 
Bladesway said:
There's that much shit flying around this forum it's hard to know where it starts and ends. Suddenly league games are the only ones that count and beating teams from higher divisions is rubbed from the record as well. If that suits your agenda of course.
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The only stat that counts for me was the distance we finished from automatic promotion. Cup runs were fun. League football was awful. I don't care about the other numbers, but stats can be plucked to suit whichever side of the fence you are on.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
The only stat that counts for me was the distance we finished from automatic promotion. Cup runs were fun. League football was awful. I don't care about the other numbers, but stats can be plucked to suit whichever side of the fence you are on.

UTB
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Agree that you that stats mean nothing. Clough didn't get sacked because of stats and whether I agree with it or not doesn't matter. What is important now is we make a good appointment. That scares the he'll out of me.
 
Dkc said:
Warnock was on Talksport today saying that we should give it to Morgan.

He also ruled himself out of the running for the manager's job, but said that he would be willing to "help out" if needed.

You can accuse me of "living in the past" and "looking backwards" if you like, but I think we'd be a tough team to beat with Warnock and Morgan sat in the dugout
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Dinosaur ;-)

Not saying that I don't see your point though
 

Bladesway said:
We scored more goals against Swindon in that game as well so doesn't that slaughter the Negative Nigel bollocks? You can't have it both ways.
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I, for one, have never condemned NC for being negative. Indeed I think I may have posted somewhere that I understand the need to go back to go forward (boring boring Arsenal/Chelsea/Inter/Milan). I agree with you Bladesway, but the defending at Swindon was such a catastrophic disaster at times that it fundamentally shifted my position which had been, up until then, positive towards NC. Nothing to do with accusations of negativity.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Presumes:

People are whining about the cup.
Cup runs are about winning the thing.
Don't think either of these are true.
Click to expand...
yes they are. 'clough was great because we did well in the cup'.. of course it is about winning the thing.. just like the league is about 'winning' promotion.. perhaps i'm wrong i dunno.. i'm genuinely shocked at your comment:eek:
 
Sothall_Blade said:
Do you think the board told Clough from the start not to bother with the cups as the league was all that mattered?
Or were they happy enough to turn up and bask in the "glory" at Wembley and White Hart Lane, spend all the cup proceeds on ground improvements and only then tell Clough that the cups didn't matter and he shouldn't have bothered with them?
Click to expand...
i thought we spent the money on midgets.. you're twisting the words we have said.. our main goal was promotion.. end of.. fail.
 
super_pig said:
i thought we spent the money on midgets.. you're twisting the words we have said.. our main goal was promotion.. end of.. fail.
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Hope you aren't anywhere near a management position in life with that attitude. Yes ultimately he failed and that clearly is the reason for his demise (and perhaps he didn't respond well to critics in the meeting in London recently) but theres so much more to football management than "you didn't go up, your fired".
 
Bladesway said:
Hope you aren't anywhere near a management position in life with that attitude. Yes ultimately he failed and that clearly is the reason for his demise (and perhaps he didn't respond well to critics in the meeting in London recently) but theres so much more to football management than "you didn't go up, your fired".
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no need to get personal really is there.. obviously that wasn't the only reason for his demise but to be 20 points short and then rock up and say i'll do the same next year was never going to wash .. so it was part of the equation..
fyi i am actually :D (see the other thread) so a couple of things i do understand is 1. motivation of staff 2. meeting your targets.. :p
 
super_pig said:
yes they are. 'clough was great because we did well in the cup'.. of course it is about winning the thing.. just like the league is about 'winning' promotion.. perhaps i'm wrong i dunno.. i'm genuinely shocked at your comment:eek:
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I'm shocked that you're shocked ;-)

The last time we won the/a cup was 1925. A large chunk of my formative Bladey years (10 in a row - I think) we didn't get past the 3rd Round. The closest was a 0-0 draw at home to Villa? This tempers my ambitions for us.

I think it's realistic to set out on a cup run hoping to (if this isn't a contradiction) overachieve somewhere along the way, maybe even more than one place on the way, but considering winning the thing seems hallucinatory.
 
super_pig said:
no need to get personal really is there.. obviously that wasn't the only reason for his demise but to be 20 points short and then rock up and say i'll do the same next year was never going to wash .. so it was part of the equation..
fyi i am actually :D (see the other thread) so a couple of things i do understand is 1. motivation of staff 2. meeting your targets.. :p
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The Candle Problem again ;-)
 
super_pig said:
no need to get personal really is there.. obviously that wasn't the only reason for his demise but to be 20 points short and then rock up and say i'll do the same next year was never going to wash .. so it was part of the equation..
fyi i am actually :D (see the other thread) so a couple of things i do understand is 1. motivation of staff 2. meeting your targets.. :p
Click to expand...

I wasn't being personal like that, apologies if you took it that way. I was making a statement that you commentary is quite unforgiving. I think we were building something and next season we were going to compete. Obviously I understand targets were missed but to just cut him off at the balls for that doesn't tell the whole story. As I say I do understand why he was sacked but personally I don't agree with this hiring and firing mentality we have. Motivation of staff? You don't know if they were motivated or not. I wouldn't say they didn't try for him, but something was certainly not right.

Anyhow, it wasn't a personal assault intended on you. I'd be far more withering if I were going for you :)
 
After watching the complete and utter tripe served up last season, I struggle to see how anyone could not be pleased with Clough's sacking, providing we bring in the right manager (easier said than done). The only reason we finished 5th last year was due to the incredibly poor nature of our league, not because Clough was 'building' something.

Have people's standards dropped? We are Sheffield United. I expect mediocrity, but not in the 3rd division for god's sake.
 
Small Mendonca said:
After watching the complete and utter tripe served up last season, I struggle to see how anyone could not be pleased with Clough's sacking, providing we bring in the right manager (easier said than done). The only reason we finished 5th last year was due to the incredibly poor nature of our league, not because Clough was 'building' something.

Have people's standards dropped? We are Sheffield United. I expect mediocrity, but not in the 3rd division for god's sake.
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Got to agree, I thought that was the easiest chance to get out of League 1.
 

Didn't realise we'd named a street in his honour...
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