Madine twist or stick for next season?

[John Street West Terrace]

House

 

[Beans]

Let me take you to task on this.

I’m not anti Madine. Far from it. I make judgements on what my eyeballs tell me. We all know how good they are .

It’s easy to throw the “ex pig” and “bad boy” label out to divert from the truth of the matter. He hasn’t pulled any trees up as yet in a Blades shirt.

OK, that’s a statement of opinion rather than fact. Fair dinkum.

But can someone PLEASE explain what EXACTLY it is that I am missing with Madines performances that should have me being more positive than I am.

I am looking for SPECIFIC attributes. SPECIFIC positive contributory factors. What is it that he is doing so well, so consistently.

Please don’t insult my intelligence with the usual diatribe that I have previously knocked out of the park when debating the “positive” impacts of the likes of Higdon, Hanson et al.

I rate Madine MUCH higher than the majority of the dross we have previously endured in this vital “target man” type role.

But he simply HAS NOT been at it for us. Not yet anyway. I live in hope !!

UTB

Just wondering, were you at the Reading and Boro games? If you didn't think he had a big impact on both of those games then fair enough, I'll leave it there.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Excellent so far and has completely revolutionised our tactics away from home, which were looking increasingly ponderous and would have rendered automatic promotion a pipe dream. Get the ball into Madine's feet early and break with the likes of Dowell and Baldock is the new tactic. It worked brilliantly at Villa and West Brom; games that we were far more comfortable in than, say, the Leeds game - and many of of our earlier away performances (the mad ten minutes at Villa aside). There is a temptation to lump it long which doesn't suit United or madine. Thankfully this has only been an issue once. A good mechanic has all the required tools in his toolbox. If we'd had Madine and Dowell since August we'd be bored now; the title would already be assured.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Just wondering, were you at the Reading and Boro games? If you didn't think he had a big impact on both of those games then fair enough, I'll leave it there.

Reading were atrocious. I would have looked good .

Boro I will give you. And some moments in other games too.

But in the most recent games he simply has not been up to speed, has been ineffective, and looks slow, languid and bluntly not even close to being match fit enough to contribute positively.

Not all bad. No doubt.

But not great either !!

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

Excellent so far and has completely revolutionised our tactics away from home, which were looking increasingly ponderous and would have rendered automatic promotion a pipe dream. Get the ball into Madine's feet early and break with the likes of Dowell and Baldock is the new tactic. It worked brilliantly at Villa and West Brom; games that we were far more comfortable in than, say, the Leeds game - and many of of our earlier away performances (the mad ten minutes at Villa aside). There is a temptation to lump it long which doesn't suit United or madine. Thankfully this has only been an issue once. A good mechanic has all the required tools in his toolbox. If we'd had Madine and Dowell since August we'd be bored now; the title would already be assured.

Wow.

That is all.

UTB

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Excellent so far and has completely revolutionised our tactics away from home, which were looking increasingly ponderous and would have rendered automatic promotion a pipe dream. Get the ball into Madine's feet early and break with the likes of Dowell and Baldock is the new tactic. It worked brilliantly at Villa and West Brom; games that we were far more comfortable in than, say, the Leeds game - and many of of our earlier away performances (the mad ten minutes at Villa aside). There is a temptation to lump it long which doesn't suit United or madine. Thankfully this has only been an issue once. A good mechanic has all the required tools in his toolbox. If we'd had Madine and Dowell since August we'd be bored now; the title would already be assured.

Did you just call Wilder and shit mechanic?!

Reading were atrocious. I would have looked good .

Boro I will give you. And some moments in other games too.

But in the most recent games he simply has not been up to speed, has been ineffective, and looks slow, languid and bluntly not even close to being match fit enough to contribute positively.

Not all bad. No doubt.

But not great either !!

UTB

My views on the matter, really. He offers us a physical presence in both boxes, which has it's purpose, we don't get bullied as much. He holds the ball up well, which, is why it's frustrating to not have him for these few games...and that's a big admission from me, given how much you all know I've been against the signing. Billy holds the ball up incredibly well for his stature, but he isn't that type of player outright. He's massively limited our options for these few games by being a complete moron.

That said, he hasn't looked good enough or consistent enough for this level, so certainly wouldn't be good enough for the level above. He doesn't fit with our fluent passing game and when we do bring him on we revert to punting it long.

 

[Beans]

Reading were atrocious. I would have looked good .

Boro I will give you. And some moments in other games too.

But in the most recent games he simply has not been up to speed, has been ineffective, and looks slow, languid and bluntly not even close to being match fit enough to contribute positively.

Not all bad. No doubt.

But not great either !!

UTB

Fair enough, although in his defence he's only played about 150 minutes since the Reading game with 2 starts (1 of which was, uh, prematurely ended). He wasn't good against the Pigs but it's hard to read too much into the other 80 minutes or so that he's played since.

FWIW, full disclosure: I don't think it's worth signing him permanently either, I didn't want us to sign him in the first place, but I do think he's made us better and was probably the best striker of that type that was available to us.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Did you just call Wilder and shit mechanic?!

My views on the matter, really. He offers us a physical presence in both boxes, which has it's purpose, we don't get bullied as much. He holds the ball up well, which, is why it's frustrating to not have him for these few games...and that's a big admission from me, given how much you all know I've been against the signing. Billy holds the ball up incredibly well for his stature, but he isn't that type of player outright. He's massively limited our options for these few games by being a complete moron.

That said, he hasn't looked good enough or consistent enough for this level, so certainly wouldn't be good enough for the level above. He doesn't fit with our fluent passing game and when we do bring him on we revert to punting it long.

The opposite. He has a tool for every necessity.
For doubters: It's worth taking a look at our results against the top sides pre and post Madine for evidence of the massive influence he's made.

 

[DronnieBlade]

The opposite. He has a tool for every necessity.
For doubters: It's worth taking a look at our results against the top sides pre and post Madine for evidence of the massive influence he's made.

Yep.

Sure your right.

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

Yep.

Sure your right.

UTB

They all come round to my way of thinking in the end.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Yep.

Sure your right.

UTB

No idea what you've been watching but it ain't Madine. We have brought in 3 strikers in him Hogan and Washington. To be blunt Madine has looked the part in every element. His hold up and link up play is brilliant.
Hogan and Washington have looked shit. No further comment on them needed.
You clearly are agenda driven.
Sharp.
Clarke
Madine.

 

[Grappler]

Thinking back to the Villa away game, weren't we cruising to a victory until Madine was subbed? Then they had a load of corners and his presence in the box, to defend, would have been really useful? We ended up drawing?, am I getting that game mixed up?

 

[Pinchy]

Excellent so far and has completely revolutionised our tactics away from home, which were looking increasingly ponderous and would have rendered automatic promotion a pipe dream. Get the ball into Madine's feet early and break with the likes of Dowell and Baldock is the new tactic. It worked brilliantly at Villa and West Brom; games that we were far more comfortable in than, say, the Leeds game - and many of of our earlier away performances (the mad ten minutes at Villa aside). There is a temptation to lump it long which doesn't suit United or madine. Thankfully this has only been an issue once. A good mechanic has all the required tools in his toolbox. If we'd had Madine and Dowell since August we'd be bored now; the title would already be assured.

Quite right, especially the bit about using the machine properly. He’s a technically skilled player. No hoof required.

 

[Pinchy]

Thinking back to the Villa away game, weren't we cruising to a victory until Madine was subbed? Then they had a load of corners and his presence in the box, to defend, would have been really useful? We ended up drawing?, am I getting that game mixed up?

Right game and absolutely right in what you say. Nobody bettter to repel attacks when the opppsition are hoofing it in for the last five.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Maybe 1 or 2 of you can get our “Gaz” the credit for solving the Madeleine McCann case if you try a bit harder .

Fuck me dead .

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

Let me take you to task on this.

I’m not anti Madine. Far from it. I make judgements on what my eyeballs tell me. We all know how good they are .

It’s easy to throw the “ex pig” and “bad boy” label out to divert from the truth of the matter. He hasn’t pulled any trees up as yet in a Blades shirt.

OK, that’s a statement of opinion rather than fact. Fair dinkum.

But can someone PLEASE explain what EXACTLY it is that I am missing with Madines performances that should have me being more positive than I am.

I am looking for SPECIFIC attributes. SPECIFIC positive contributory factors. What is it that he is doing so well, so consistently.

Please don’t insult my intelligence with the usual diatribe that I have previously knocked out of the park when debating the “positive” impacts of the likes of Higdon, Hanson et al.

I rate Madine MUCH higher than the majority of the dross we have previously endured in this vital “target man” type role.

But he simply HAS NOT been at it for us. Not yet anyway. I live in hope !!

UTB

So 24 hours on and nobody has had a stab at this.

Wonder why ??

UTB

 

[Fanny magnet]

We aren’t there to give ‘game time and experience’. The idea that Tyler Smith is ready for the Premiership is risible.

Game time. Game fucking time.

More Sunday League thinking from S40.

You said exactly the same things about David Brooks

 

[Beans]

So 24 hours on and nobody has had a stab at this.

Wonder why ??

UTB

If you want some boring stats (how’s your Friday night going?), he wins more aerial duels per 90 than any other player on our team (10.5) at a 59% success rate (McGoldrick 37%, Sharp 22%, Clarke 52% before he moved on). Madine is also creating more chances per 90 than players like McGoldrick, Baldock, Freeman, Stevens and Dowell. I’d say he was brought in to be an aerial threat and ideally create for others in games where we're struggling. I hope you don’t think I’m blindly defending him here - personally I’d say he’s been good but not amazing, and certainly he’d be my third choice of our strikers - but I just think it’s wrong to say he has no specific attributes that have specifically contributed positively.

He’s also scored more than any of our other strikers in the last seven games

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Beans , beans good for the stats, the more he gives, we all seem twats.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Those damn stats !

 

[I should coco]

To be blunt Madine has looked the part in every element. His hold up and link up play is brilliant.
Hogan and Washington have looked shit

Washington has been mainly chucked on for the last 10 minutes to run lost causes down the channels. To bring him in this context is risible.

Hogan looked good in his cameos but didn't do the business once Madine was sent off (for violent conduct). All that proves is he can't play the lone striker when we have 10 men, it does not prove he is 'shit'.

He’s a technically skilled player. No hoof required.

I have to say I'm amazed by your constant defence of Madine. he was brought in to give us a route one option; come on down Neil Warnock / David Basset. He is quite good in the air and his feet aren't as bad as I feared. By no stretch of the most febrile imagination is he 'technically skilled'.

If you want some boring stats (how’s your Friday night going?), he wins more aerial duels per 90 than any other player on our team (10.5) at a 59% success rate (McGoldrick 37%, Sharp 22%, Clarke 52% before he moved on). Madine is also creating more chances per 90 than players like McGoldrick, Baldock, Freeman, Stevens and Dowell. I’d say he was brought in to be an aerial threat and ideally create for others in games where we're struggling. I hope you don’t think I’m blindly defending him here - personally I’d say he’s been good but not amazing, and certainly he’d be my third choice of our strikers - but I just think it’s wrong to say he has no specific attributes that have specifically contributed positively.

Love your podcasts and I'll defer to your stats on this one. An impressive aerial duel performance but I'm not sure how 'chances' are defined. More info needed.

He’s also scored more than any of our other strikers in the last seven games

There are lies, damned lies and statistics...

You little tinker! You know well that Billy always scores in batches and then has fallow periods and you and Jay have previously commented on this. i know you weren't sure about Madine, so I will let you off with the smiley and assume you were being 'funny'. I often try to be 'funny' too but strangely I end up rowing with strangers...

 

[blade67]

Let me take you to task on this.

I’m not anti Madine. Far from it. I make judgements on what my eyeballs tell me. We all know how good they are .

It’s easy to throw the “ex pig” and “bad boy” label out to divert from the truth of the matter. He hasn’t pulled any trees up as yet in a Blades shirt.

OK, that’s a statement of opinion rather than fact. Fair dinkum.

But can someone PLEASE explain what EXACTLY it is that I am missing with Madines performances that should have me being more positive than I am.

I am looking for SPECIFIC attributes. SPECIFIC positive contributory factors. What is it that he is doing so well, so consistently.

Please don’t insult my intelligence with the usual diatribe that I have previously knocked out of the park when debating the “positive” impacts of the likes of Higdon, Hanson et al.

I rate Madine MUCH higher than the majority of the dross we have previously endured in this vital “target man” type role.

But he simply HAS NOT been at it for us. Not yet anyway. I live in hope !!

UTB

FWIW my view is as follows

I think in games where we have struggled to control the midfield he has given us a toe hold in the game.

Examples were Swansea away where we got right back in it and should have scored in that period he was on the pitch

he did really well at Norwich I thought

he was MOM at home to reading

He's generally allowed our 1st choice pairing a rest

Was a star player at villa in our excellent performance

His introduction at Boro changed the game

Do you want me to go on?

His tackle in the Brentford game was , however, fucking stupid

 

[Bill Johnson]

FWIW my view is as follows

I think in games where we have struggled to control the midfield he has given us a toe hold in the game.

Examples were Swansea away where we got right back in it and should have scored in that period he was on the pitch

he did really well at Norwich I thought

he was MOM at home to reading

He's generally allowed our 1st choice pairing a rest

Was a star player at villa in our excellent performance

His introduction at Boro changed the game

Do you want me to go on?

His tackle in the Brentford game was , however, fucking stupid

Neither Hogan nor Washington have made meaningful contributions.
Madine has goals and assists.
The former are shit in so far as they've brought nothing meaningful.
Madine has.
Points make prizes.
Fuck all else matters.

 

[blade67]

Neither Hogan nor Washington have made meaningful contributions.
Madine has goals and assists.
The former are shit in so far as they've brought nothing meaningful.
Madine has.
Points make prizes.
Fuck all else matters.

basically I agree

ive seen enough of Washington to make my mind up

Hogan - jury out

 

[I should coco]

Do you want me to go on?

His tackle in the Brentford game was , however, fucking stupid

And therein lies my problem with him. He is a violent psychopath and can't be trusted.

Darrius Henderson was a similar player. Great at winning headers and playing the target man, but so often he just wanted to fight with the opposition's centre half and abuse the ref. Overall he contributed sweet FA for us.

i'm waiting for the 'Madine is a much changed man' post......

 

[I should coco]

Neither Hogan nor Washington have made meaningful contributions.
Madine has goals and assists.

Neither Hogan nor Washington have been given the same amount of game time. You may have a point but you are not being fair or comparing apples with apples. I acceept that you may well be a pears man.

The former are shit in so far as they've brought nothing meaningful.
Madine has.

Madine has also been sent off for violent conduct. Unless I'm much mistaken. neither Hogan nor Washington have and left the team with 10 men against the best passing side in the division.

Points make prizes.

Billy and Diddsy have contributed far more than the violent idiot to our points haul.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Neither Hogan nor Washington have been given the same amount of game time. You may have a point but you are not being fair or comparing apples with apples. I acceept that you may well be a pears man.



Madine has also been sent off for violent conduct. Unless I'm much mistaken. neither Hogan nor Washington have and left the team with 10 men against the best passing side in the division.



Billy and Diddsy have contributed far more than the violent idiot to our points haul.

I'll leave it at your last paragraph.
I never converse with anyone with a clear agenda.

 

[blade67]

And therein lies my problem with him. He is a violent psychopath and can't be trusted.

Darrius Henderson was a similar player. Great at winning headers and playing the target man, but so often he just wanted to fight with the opposition's centre half and abuse the ref. Overall he contributed sweet FA for us.

i'm waiting for the 'Madine is a much changed man' post......

I understand where you are coming from and I really don't know. He;s better than Hendo on the deck for sure.

my response is aimed at DronnieBlade s question

 

[I should coco]

I never converse with anyone with a clear agenda.

As a bloke with a self styled grumpy old man agenda I'm sure you do, but I can't be arsed to find examples.

I'm sure your are right. Madine is great and all the 'violent psycho' stuff is just agenda driven rubbish.

You win.

 

[Pinchy]

And therein lies my problem with him. He is a violent psychopath and can't be trusted.

Darrius Henderson was a similar player. Great at winning headers and playing the target man, but so often he just wanted to fight with the opposition's centre half and abuse the ref. Overall he contributed sweet FA for us.

i'm waiting for the 'Madine is a much changed man' post......

I’ll offer a “far better footballer than Henderson” post, if that helps?