losses up 1m quid

[Woodwardfan]

If I was worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds I imagine Id get over it.

I always feel the need to point out that these chaps don't invest in football clubs out of the kindness of their hearts, they all do it as there's something in it for them.

If they made the same level and frequency of poor decisions in their business lives as they do for our football club they'd be ousted from their positions or bankrupt.

You will see in my post that I differentiated between the two owners. One is a lifetime Blade with money, the other is a new Blade with money.

The lifetime Blade has chosen to invest in his club in order to save it and then develop it. Of course he can afford it but any Yorkshireman does not like to lose money. I doubt very much that KM invested in our club for "something in it for him", unless you mean the satisfaction of doing his best for the club because he had some spare cash and in the hope of becoming a Blades legend and leaving a legacy. You and I would have done exactly the same I'm sure. Look after family, see they're alright and then invest in our second love - SUFC.

It's not gone well and that niggles you no end. I'm sure it more than niggles KM.

 

[Esablade]

I hope youre fooling yourself because you're fooling nobody else. You don't have the first clue.

It's not my take, it's what the accounts show. You could have given your take on it but why take a risk.....

I've given my take..why are you getting so narky?
You've set yourself up as the expert here!?!?
A few simple questions and the toys are out the pram!

Princey is putting new money into the club which is serving the current trading losses, whilst McCabe is writing off debts ( he'd never get back anyhow) that he's built up through his many mistakes over the years...it's quite simply really..

I'm guessing that's what 'the argument' was about in Jan and why they've announced they're jointly putting in £8million next year...I mean you don't think McCabe's half of this £8 million will be writing more debt off do you?

 

[Barney]

I've given my take..why are you getting so narky?
You've set yourself up as the expert here!?!?
A few simple questions and the toys are out the pram!

Princey is putting new money into the club which is serving the current trading losses, whilst McCabe is writing off debts ( he'd never get back anyhow) that he's built up through his many mistakes over the years...it's quite simply really..

I'm guessing that's what 'the argument' was about in Jan and why they've announced they're jointly putting in £8million next year...I mean you don't think McCabe's half of this £8 million will be writing more debt off do you?

The £8m in investment was this season.

 

[PeteBlade]

You will see in my post that I differentiated between the two owners. One is a lifetime Blade with money, the other is a new Blade with money.

The lifetime Blade has chosen to invest in his club in order to save it and then develop it. Of course he can afford it but any Yorkshireman does not like to lose money. I doubt very much that KM invested in our club for "something in it for him", unless you mean the satisfaction of doing his best for the club because he had some spare cash and in the hope of becoming a Blades legend and leaving a legacy. You and I would have done exactly the same I'm sure. Look after family, see they're alright and then invest in our second love - SUFC.

It's not gone well and that niggles you no end. I'm sure it more than niggles KM.

I'm not one of those that foolishly claims he's taken money out of the club or that he pockets transfer fees but I'd suggest that if he was in a different line of work he may not have been so keen to get involved.

Much as I'd love to believe your somewhat starry eyed view of his involvement.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Which quashes the theory that McCabe wants to stay in this league then?

I know you might not be able to answer this but has any team ever lost as much as we have in the lower echelons of football in such a short space of time?

We are a 'big club' with the infrastructure of a 'big club'. Having all those facilities in waiting for a return to the big time is outrageously expensive and that includes the management teams and the playing squad.

Some on here think KM and the prince will fund all that and then spoil it for the sake of a player signing or two. That's nonsense.

All we need is a manager who can spend one of the best budgets in the league effectively and get the best out of his players. For 5 years we've not had that.

Some now 'smell austerity'. I don't because I can see the owners are demanding promotion and putting all in place to achieve it. The manager will have a similar budget next season and he should have got us promoted this season. He has to be more careful with his spending because his signings cost us dear this season.

When it comes to the money side what strikes me is how little the biggest critics can interpret the financials. It's always the owners' fault for not spending that extra £2m or so and 'asking the manager to do the job with his hands tied behind his back'.

 

[Bladepicker]

No it's what they put in in 14/15. The Princes initial £10m has virtually all been swallowed up by losses. The £8m share injection is 2015/16.

I would hazard a guess given the 8 million our turnover pre share injection of around 8 million as well. It's a mess. How they have let the club be in this position is ridiculous.

8.5 million in wages. For the likes of Freeman, Collins, Flynn and Higdon. Dear frigging me.

 

[wizadry]

Staying in this league makes no sense whatsoever. The only people who say that are the ultra deluded who despite all the evidence think he's not only taking money out of the club but that he's actually making money.

Portsmouth are the obvious one but I don't know the figures, although most of it would be in the PL days, like Bolton.

Yes I thought of Pompey after I wrote it but did wonder if they have lost as much as us since being in League one and League two in the same timescale as us, not that it matters, just wondering that's all.

McCabes' decision making on the whole has been nothing short of atrocious, as much as he loses money it is normally down to his decisions and i will never understand why a man with his wealth doesn't show a tad more ambition when the club he supports truly needs it. All this is guesswork but it's the picture that I see painted, one where Adkins has had to go on another walk along Ecclesall Road to buy some more Vaseline.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've given my take..why are you getting so narky?
You've set yourself up as the expert here!?!?
A few simple questions and the toys are out the pram!

Princey is putting new money into the club which is serving the current trading losses, whilst McCabe is writing off debts ( he'd never get back anyhow) that he's built up through his many mistakes over the years...it's quite simply really..

I'm guessing that's what 'the argument' was about in Jan and why they've announced they're jointly putting in £8million next year...I mean you don't think McCabe's half of this £8 million will be writing more debt off do you?

As I said, you don't have a clue. Your comments on writing off debt shows that together with the eight million next year comment. They've already put it in but let's pretend it's next year because you can't listen to an interview properly.

Writing off debt by putting more cash in. Interesting accounting convention.

 

[Esablade]

As I said, you don't have a clue. Your comments on writing off debt shows that together with the eight million next year comment. They've already put it in but let's pretend it's next year because you can't listen to an interview properly.

Writing off debt by putting more cash in. Interesting accounting convention.

Debt owed to who?

 

[Bladepicker]

Can anyone tell me what we got from gate receipts? Cheers in advance as I can't click on some links on this shite phone.

I believe gate receipts are around 3.5m

That can't be right. If you take an average gate of 18k, and a low average price per ticket of 12 quid, over 23 home games that is nearly 5 million alone.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The £8m in investment was this season.

He knows. He just said something different that's all.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'm not one of those that foolishly claims he's taken money out of the club or that he pockets transfer fees but I'd suggest that if he was in a different line of work he may not have been so keen to get involved.

Much as I'd love to believe your somewhat starry eyed view of his involvement.

Do you think he has spent £90m and lost a net £60m plus just to take advantage of the Global SUFC Brand to enhance his property dealings which are worldwide? I don't think so somehow, he was doing very well without us I'm sure.

Or do you think he always had his eye on the freehold of the ground and the training ground? I don't think so.

So what do you mean?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Debt owed to who?

McCabe. Who else? But it's not been "written off "anyway. It's there in a share premium account in the accounts. The value may be worth much less but it's still there.

 

[Esablade]

That can't be right. If you take an average gate of 18k, and a low average price per ticket of 12 quid, over 23 home games that is nearly 5 million alone.

This was from 2013:

The Club generated turnover of £8.9m in the year ending June 2013 (2012: £10.3m), a reduction of £1.4m year on year. Gate receipts of £3.7m (2012: £4.5m) saw a reduction of £0.8m due to a combination of decreased League match revenues as £0.4m was generated by play-off fixtures in the previous year, and reduced Cup revenue, a fall of £0.4m due to a short lived Cup run this season. Average attendance was 17,794 (2012: 18,701).

 

[Esablade]

McCabe. Who else? But it's not been "written off "anyway. It's there in a share premium account in the accounts. The value may be worth much less but it's still there.

Aye..there's the rub isn't it...

 

[Sean Thornton]

That can't be right. If you take an average gate of 18k, and a low average price per ticket of 12 quid, over 23 home games that is nearly 5 million alone.

Couple of years ago I think it was £3.7million so it won't be a million miles away. Remember you have to strip the vat out and kids tickets are very cheap for under sixteens.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Debt owed to who?

Money owed to KM converted to shares in the company which don't have to be repaid and don't accrue interest.

All KM has left for those hard cash loans he made to the company are the shares of a loss-making club worth not very much these days.

Also bear in mind he 'gave away' half the shares in the club to the prince in return for his promises to invest serious money for the development of the footballing side of the club.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Aye..there's the rub isn't it...

Well at least now you know.

 

[Esablade]

Money owed to KM converted to shares in the company which don't have to be repaid and don't accrue interest.

All KM has left for those hard cash loans he made to the company are the shares of a loss-making club worth not very much these days.

Also bear in mind he 'gave away' half the shares in the club to the prince in return for his promises to invest serious money for the development of the footballing side of the club.

...so he 'gave away' what..exactly?
His debt?

 

[Bladepicker]

This was from 2013:

The Club generated turnover of £8.9m in the year ending June 2013 (2012: £10.3m), a reduction of £1.4m year on year. Gate receipts of £3.7m (2012: £4.5m) saw a reduction of £0.8m due to a combination of decreased League match revenues as £0.4m was generated by play-off fixtures in the previous year, and reduced Cup revenue, a fall of £0.4m due to a short lived Cup run this season. Average attendance was 17,794 (2012: 18,701).

Still don't get it. That means average price paid per seat is 9 quid and, given non season ticket higher ticket costs, average season ticket price is under 200 quid. How many under 10's do we have in the bloody crowd?

 

[PeteBlade]

Do you think he has spent £90m and lost a net £60m plus just to take advantage of the Global SUFC Brand to enhance his property dealings which are worldwide? I don't think so somehow, he was doing very well without us I'm sure.

Or do you think he always had his eye on the freehold of the ground and the training ground? I don't think so.

So what do you mean?

Rich businessmen always want to get richer, it doesn't matter how successful he was before us.

I think the relationship has been beneficial for him and his business interests, I don't think or suggest he's ever done anything dodgy.

I don't think this suggestion is any less unbelievable that him being in it purely because the blades are his "second love" and he wants to become a legend.

 

[Woodwardfan]

...so he 'gave away' what..exactly?

'Sold' half the club to the prince for a quid as a 'golden hello'.

You're not playing games are you Esa?

 

[northsomersetblade]

What does this mean? - A restructure of intercompany debts had enabled Sheffield United to post a profit of £30.8m in 2013/14.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Rich businessmen always want to get richer, it doesn't matter how successful he was before us.

I think the relationship has been beneficial for him and his business interests, I don't think or suggest he's ever done anything dodgy.

I don't think this suggestion is any less unbelievable that him being in it purely because the blades are his "second love" and he wants to become a legend.

That is a reasonable statement, carefully worded and sensible.

Does the 'beneficial' bit cover his £60m losses? Nowhere near and never would unless we had managed to 'do a Leicester' and then he might have had the reflected glory.

He could have cut and run years ago but he wants to leave a legacy and won't rest in his grave I'm sure if we are in this state when he pops it.

 

[Balham]

The £5.4 m loss is reduced by a "Profit on disposal of player registrations" of £2.17m ( no breakdown)

I only scanned it but I think the exec summary only mentioned Maguire and Taylor under the section on disposals. Did anyone else leave for a fee?

 

[Esablade]

'Sold' half the club to the prince for a quid as a 'golden hello'.

You're not playing games are you Esa?

No games...The problem is I still think McCabe see's the money he's put into the club as an 'investment'...it isn't, it's gone...he's put millions and millions into the club and it's not coming back..I don't think he's quite come to terms with that yet...that's the problem.

Btw..It wasn't 'a quid' was it?

 

[10-0 win]

Rich businessmen always want to get richer, it doesn't matter how successful he was before us.

If anybody wanted to get richer, investing in a footballclub is not a very good idea. That is probably the worst kind of investment possible.

 

[PeteBlade]

If anybody wanted to get richer, investing in a footballclub is not a very good idea. That is probably the worst kind of investment possible.

You've misunderstood what I meant.

 

[Bladepicker]

Couple of years ago I think it was £3.7million so it won't be a million miles away. Remember you have to strip the vat out and kids tickets are very cheap for under sixteens.

Even accounting for VAT which I forgot all about, that would still be an average of 11 quid per game. And that is just based on league games. Just seems very low even given the above?

 

[Woodwardfan]

No games...The problem is I still think McCabe see's the money he's put into the club as an 'investment'...it isn't, it's gone...he's put millions and millions into the club and it's not coming back..I don't think he's quite come to terms with that yet...that's the problem.

Btw..It wasn't 'a quid' was it?

McCabe is a businessman who understands precisely what money he has lost and what his half company is worth IF he can find a willing buyer. A sale now though would crystallise those losses as did giving up half the company.

There will be the hope that future successes will enhance the value of the company and make his half ownership more valuable than it is today. For that half to ever be worth £60m plus is fantasy football.

Yes a quid.