Loans

[mancunianblade]

Torn on this topic. We’ve been overly dependant on loans in the past and we were told the club would no longer rely on them and yet here we are talking about new additions the majority of which will be on Loan again..

On the other hand it’s the only feasible way of acquiring players good enough for us to progress.

If we were to actually go up the level of recruitment required next summer would be insane

 

[robbiez666]

For me, there needs to be a mix of loans an permanent signings. Makes sense to bring in 2/3 loans. But we need additions who can also grow with the club. Buying 3 30+ players is a much worse option than loans.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Swings and roundabouts.

It’s the easiest way of doing a deal and getting in a Calibre of player we can’t afford in.

What we should make sure we do try and is agree a fee first. To protect us if they perform well - remember when Cahill was here but was so good we lost any chance of getting him here for good.

Or Leeds - worked out well for jansson who was a relative steal at £3m (Torino tried there best to get out of that clause I believe) but they were suddenly being quoted £8m for Bartley after a successful year.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Torn on this topic. We’ve been overly dependant on loans in the past and we were told the club would no longer rely on them and yet here we are talking about new additions the majority of which will be on Loan again..

On the other hand it’s the only feasible way of acquiring players good enough for us to progress.

If we were to actually go up the level of recruitment required next summer would be insane

We were told we were never going to be reliant on loans when we last got relegated (we had a crazy number that year) and by and large they’ve been to supplement the squad. They’ve also been used fairly well by Wilder in his time so far. Blackman was very good, EEL played an important part of the promotion year, CCV was good at times and was at the very least reasonable competition. They haven’t all worked, but I’m hopeful Henderson will be another of the good ones. I think Wilder is using the loan market intelligently – I’ve no issue with 2-3 of the first team squad being loans.

 

[LJBlade]

Torn on this topic. We’ve been overly dependant on loans in the past and we were told the club would no longer rely on them and yet here we are talking about new additions the majority of which will be on Loan again..

On the other hand it’s the only feasible way of acquiring players good enough for us to progress.

If we were to actually go up the level of recruitment required next summer would be insane

So far we’ve got 1 player in on loan.

 

[mancunianblade]

So far we’ve got 1 player in on loan.

I’m aware of that but I’m basing this on a quote from another thread. Twirlo from
BM suggesting we are close to Hogan on loan plus one from Man Utd,Chelsea and Liverpool. If these are all influential players a third of the match day squad will be on loan.

I’m not anti loan either just starting discussion

 

[nopigfansintown]

If you're selling your best players/biggest assets to replace with loans it's a cause for concern.If you don't get promoted where is the money going to come from to improve the squad next season? Selling another big asset from your diminishing pool of big assets? Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally averse to loan signings, but they should be used to finish the squad off, not build the foundations.A loan with a view to a permanent transfer is a good compromise. Looking at the end of next season we have Sharp out of contract; Clarke in his last year; Duffy in his last year? Moore out of contract; Jake Wright out of contract;Lafferty out of contract as well as Coutts, Basham and Lavery. Maybe more? A big rebuilding job, especially if all our incomings are loans.

 

[SwissBlade]

Torn on this topic. We’ve been overly dependant on loans in the past and we were told the club would no longer rely on them and yet here we are talking about new additions the majority of which will be on Loan again..

On the other hand it’s the only feasible way of acquiring players good enough for us to progress.

If we were to actually go up the level of recruitment required next summer would be insane

I think the last time we were overly dependent on loans was back when we got relegated from champ to league one.

Some loans work out, others don't, but mostly they're a good thing

 

[wavy-blade]

Who's the best loan player we have ever had , Bobby Davidson springs to mind for me , came in on that day and scored the winnner in Sheffield derby .

 

[grafikhaus]

Who's the best loan player we have ever had , Bobby Davidson springs to mind for me , came in on that day and scored the winnner in Sheffield derby .

Conor Coady? And that's the rub - if they're good, we fall in love with them but have put them in the shop window for the owner club - EEL. If they don't perform (Cofie), we're stuck with their wages. If the club likes them, we buy them, gives them a contract and they're in their comfort zone - Jon Harley, John Brayford - and their performance drops off.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It’s a problem that we are facing at the moment, and one which won’t be resolved unless there is a quantum shift in our ownership. We need a certain level of player to compete at this level, that type of player has a market value in both fee & wages. We can’t afford either. So we have to overcome one, if not both elements of that. So to we have to discover lower level players and buy them for less & pay them less, hoping that they can step up, we have to hope to bring through a youth team player every couple of seasons, not paying a fee & paying them less and we have to use the loan market. There’s risks attached to all 3 options. What I would say is that the loan market has changed dramaticallly over the last 10 yrs, and the way that modern football works there are fantastic opportunities for players. Chelsea could provide us with 4 different players a season, every season for the foreseeable.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Who's the best loan player we have ever had , Bobby Davidson springs to mind for me , came in on that day and scored the winnner in Sheffield derby .

Glyn Hodges

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Loan with view to a permanent. If we go up, we must buy. If we did go up it wouldn’t make a jot of difference as we’d be able to buy any league 1 player outright anyway

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

If you're selling your best players/biggest assets to replace with loans it's a cause for concern.If you don't get promoted where is the money going to come from to improve the squad next season? Selling another big asset from your diminishing pool of big assets? Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally averse to loan signings, but they should be used to finish the squad off, not build the foundations.A loan with a view to a permanent transfer is a good compromise. Looking at the end of next season we have Sharp out of contract; Clarke in his last year; Duffy in his last year? Moore out of contract; Jake Wright out of contract;Lafferty out of contract as well as Coutts, Basham and Lavery. Maybe more? A big rebuilding job, especially if all our incomings are loans.

That’s 9 players. That’s a heck of a rebuild.

 

[BigBed]

The thing with alot of loans, not all, is that unless they're looking to really impress, they can be abit, well, mediocre, if you get what I mean.......
We've has some good loans over the last 3years or so, but, we've had some shit!!
Wilson from Manc poo is a shining example, on the flip, so was Blackman.

 

[McGrath]

I think with the way the top Premier League teams literally hoover up all the young talent, it's pretty hard to avoid loans these days

 

[mancunianblade]

I’m not against loans, I think If used well they can work in our well, especially with the spending power of those around us..

Just curious about people’s views after the whole we won’t rely on loans quote and the fact they’re very expensive (or are they?) if we get the 4/5 that have mentioned then we will have spent a good % of the budget on borrowing players.

 

[Harrisblade]

I’m aware of that but I’m basing this on a quote from another thread. Twirlo from
BM suggesting we are close to Hogan on loan plus one from Man Utd,Chelsea and Liverpool. If these are all influential players a third of the match day squad will be on loan.

I’m not anti loan either just starting discussion

Any of last seasons promoted teams from Championship NOT use loans?
It's the 'overly dependent' bit that's important.
Apart from Coutts (who's probably irreplaceable) I don't think CW would ever be overly dependent on anyone.
It's how he is

 

[8lade]

Huddersfield cracked it, without Aaron Mooy I'm sure they wouldn't have been promoted but they agreed what would've been seen as a hefty price tag at £8m, of course after promotion that is absolutely nothing and as it turns out probably less than half of what he was actually worth even before you get into discussion on the value of somebody who gets a decent team promoted.

 

[I should coco]

yet here we are talking about new additions the majority of which will be on Loan again..

I think with the way the top Premier League teams literally hoover up all the young talent, it's pretty hard to avoid loans these days

If you want great young prospects who Man Citeh, Manyoo and Chelski don't want to release, then you take a loan or pay upwards of £10m for unproven 'potential'.
If we wanted to buy a new Ched these days, think how much football inflation would force us to pay.

It's quite simple. The game has changed and we have no choice if we want the best young talent .

 

[Fraggle Blade]

I'd prefer if we kept the loans down to a couple, as it means with more you are always having to replace the loans at the end of every season as well as the players you release. It always makes the squad building harder and can stop the team growing as a unit....in my opinion.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think the last time we were overly dependent on loans was back when we got relegated from champ to league one.

Some loans work out, others don't, but mostly they're a good thing

At that time we took loans to fill spaces not enough care or planning went into it.
I don't think we will do that under Wilder he plans these moves and will make sure they bring something to the table,good loans don't come cheap

 

[Grizzly blade]

There s nothing wrong with a loan in the right circumstances.

Loaning a player as he’s not part of the future plans of his parent club due to being over paid, or old, or simply shit, is not good value for the loan club.

Loaning a top quality player who’s very young but not quite ready to make the team of his premier league parent club is ok. Make the loan a deal whereby if the loan club wants to sign him permanent then they get first dibs makes it good value...if the same player also proves so good that he contributes immensely to getting a team promoted then the original loan deal is very cheap and great value.

 

[Adiroy]

Russian roulette..

We brought in James wilson who was apparently man uniteds development sides top goalscorer at the time, looked like an ideal fit on paper and in reality didnt really do a great deal apart from talk about himself.

Fulham brought in Mitrovic.

 

[Bladezz]

Sign 3 perm few loans.

Then next season just replacing the few loans.

It’s a long term project as CW has said he needed. We cannot do a Boro and sign 6 first team players in one window.

Last Jan we needed to fill gaps in our teams with numbers now we build with quality.

 

[FriethBlade]

It's a bit like the debate about whether to rent or buy a house. Rent is 'wasted money' as you never own the asset so miss out on the opportunity for capital appreciation (and depreciation) and finance someone elses purchaseof the propertt. However renting is more flexible in terms of moving. Same with loans, if they work put we have developed someone else's asset and won't be able to afford them. If they are no good we can send them back.

Nothing wrong with loans in principle, particularly for players who otherwise would be unobtainable. However following the money we received for Brooks it will be disappointing if we dont sign at least one good player permanently.

I hope Gallagher will be the permanent signing and Hogan and a couple of premiership youngs5ers will come in on loan.

 

[Booker4]

I'm all for loan signings providing that they bring something to the team that we don't already have in the type of player and/or are better than what we already have. Preferably we sign loan players that we can also potentially buy but often this isn't possible so then you're left with a short term loan and if that's the case then as I started with they best be better and/or different to what we have.

What I don't (ideally) want to see us do is bring in loans only that we can't afford to bring in permanently and then we have to start again next summer. Of course if we get promoted due to the loans that we wouldn't have being able to do without the loans then you can't complain because the loans got us promoted. Its a balance essentially and not an easy transfer situation for Wilder to manage but he's proven time again that he is decent in the windows. In January we'll know where we are in the division and whether we are up there or not and then we'll go from there, possibly with a loan signing that gives us something extra such as what Fulham did with Mitrovic - sadly we're highly unlikely to be able to bring in someone of that quality, loan or not!

 

[8lade]

Well given the revelations about 'ownership', loaning players makes a lot more sense than buying players.
I should've known things were going too well, this is Sheffield United.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's a bit like the debate about whether to rent or buy a house. Rent is 'wasted money' as you never own the asset so miss out on the opportunity for capital appreciation (and depreciation) and finance someone elses purchaseof the propertt. However renting is more flexible in terms of moving. Same with loans, if they work put we have developed someone else's asset and won't be able to afford them. If they are no good we can send them back.

Nothing wrong with loans in principle, particularly for players who otherwise would be unobtainable. However following the money we received for Brooks it will be disappointing if we dont sign at least one good player permanently.

I hope Gallagher will be the permanent signing and Hogan and a couple of premiership youngs5ers will come in on loan.

Do you treat a rented property the same as you would if it was yours?