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Sean Thornton said:
I think it is. Due to the trading position money that could be used for player investment is having to be used to cover losses. Until that stops its going to be wing and a prayer stuff that one day a manager will find the magic formula.

If he can achieve break even is another thing though.
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We better cross our fingers that Wilder and his successors know what they are doing then. Because the last time this was tried, they got the manager wrong (Weir) and McCabe had to pump money in to avoid relegation. If he won't do that, a poor spell by a manager or bad form or injuries see us in league 2.

The problem I have with this is "living within our means" is not a plan by itself. You need direction and ideas on recruitment, youth football, scouting and playing strategy that we simply do not possess. if you do not have these things, you go nowhere.
 



HillmortonBlade said:
Since when has getting any business to "stand in its own two feet" been anything other than a good idea?
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I'm not sure this is something to aspire to. So many clubs are bankrolled that it would reduce the odds of us being able to compete.

Reading the Sean vs Pommpey stuff, I do wonder if promotion will make much difference to our bottom line. If we go up then I think the Prince will have to come good and start to throw more money at it just for us to compete. The money sloshing around in the Championship at the moment is astonishing.

So I'm all for running the show on a business-like basis, except when we need our own golden tit to spaff the cash. :)
 
Revolution said:
We better cross our fingers that Wilder and his successors know what they are doing then. Because the last time this was tried, they got the manager wrong (Weir) and McCabe had to pump money in to avoid relegation. If he won't do that, a poor spell by a manager or bad form or injuries see us in league 2.

The problem I have with this is "living within our means" is not a plan by itself. You need direction and ideas on recruitment, youth football, scouting and playing strategy that we simply do not possess. if you do not have these things, you go nowhere.
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I had to delete half my post because of that....
 
Revolution said:
We better cross our fingers that Wilder and his successors know what they are doing then. Because the last time this was tried, they got the manager wrong (Weir) and McCabe had to pump money in to avoid relegation. If he won't do that, a poor spell by a manager or bad form or injuries see us in league 2.

The problem I have with this is "living within our means" is not a plan by itself. You need direction and ideas on recruitment, youth football, scouting and playing strategy that we simply do not possess. if you do not have these things, you go nowhere.
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That last paragraph is spot on and is as much to blame as poor appointments of managers.

I still think he'll cover the shortfall though, he has little choice in reality.
 
JohnDenver said:
I'm not sure this is something to aspire to. So many clubs are bankrolled that it would reduce the odds of us being able to compete.

Reading the Sean vs Pommpey stuff, I do wonder if promotion will make much difference to our bottom line. If we go up then I think the Prince will have to come good and start to throw more money at it just for us to compete. The money sloshing around in the Championship at the moment is astonishing.

So I'm all for running the show on a business-like basis, except when we need our own golden tit to spaff the cash. :)
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My point about promotion was that it's the only way to increase income. The Prince investment apart, I'd expect us to try to get along on a shoestring budget at first. I can't see McCabe pumping millions in again but how anyone can think he's happy just losing a few million each year in L1 isn't living in the real world. We are still here because he/we have failed, not because he doesn't mind losing a few million as season rather than try and rescue at least some part of his investment. It's an idea based not on any facts or common sense but an obsession.
 
Sean Thornton said:
My point about promotion was that it's the only way to increase income. The Prince investment apart, I'd expect us to try to get along on a shoestring budget at first. I can't see McCabe pumping millions in again but how anyone can think he's happy just losing a few million each year in L1 isn't living in the real world. We are still here because he/we have failed, not because he doesn't mind losing a few million as season rather than try and rescue at least some part of his investment. It's an idea based not on any facts or common sense but an obsession.
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Well if we do go up (it won't be this year) I hope someone puts some money in as coming straight back down again would be a disaster.
 
Revolution said:
Well if we do go up (it won't be this year) I hope someone puts some money in as coming straight back down again would be a disaster.
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That's the dilemma for the board. Not going up doesn't give us any chance of getting out of this mess outside of new owners though. None at all.
 
gavtheblade said:
Am I missing something here?
Kevin mc bobar stated not so many moons ago that loans were a thing of the past and not value for money.
I hope to God that the sales will not be swallowed up by paying so called bigger wages to the higher earning championship starlets.
Negative equity.
Over to you kev.
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Yes, you're missing time and the changes it enforces. When KM said that, it was after that fucking idiot Blackwell filled our first team with shit loans who were no better than players we could have bought or signed on frees. In some cases, like Nosworthy, worse. And it cost us a fortune.

That should never be repeated.

But adding a couple of loans for players we probably couldn't attract permanently to add to a squad of first team permanent players is very different. Eubanks Candle is probably better than we could attract at CH, and it seems we did try, Lafferty is well out of our reach, Chapman is a bit of a punt, I think, and I suspect we're not paying much for him.
 
Revolution said:
We better cross our fingers that Wilder and his successors know what they are doing then. Because the last time this was tried, they got the manager wrong (Weir) and McCabe had to pump money in to avoid relegation. If he won't do that, a poor spell by a manager or bad form or injuries see us in league 2.
Click to expand...

Weir signed Jasper Johns and Sean McGinity though.
 
JohnDenver said:
I'm not sure this is something to aspire to. So many clubs are bankrolled that it would reduce the odds of us being able to compete.

Reading the Sean vs Pommpey stuff, I do wonder if promotion will make much difference to our bottom line. If we go up then I think the Prince will have to come good and start to throw more money at it just for us to compete. The money sloshing around in the Championship at the moment is astonishing.

So I'm all for running the show on a business-like basis, except when we need our own golden tit to spaff the cash. :)
Click to expand...

And therein lies the problem. From one stand point we hate the Premier League, Sky/BT, Fuck-a-Trade Trophy, mediocre footballers driving sports cars and mocking fans with their wealth.

On the other hand, we want owners prepared to throw good money after bad into a pit in order to buy success.

It will all fall like a deck if cards one day. Shall we go for prudence and sensible investment? Shall we tell McCabe to keep spending and if his money don't solve, not to worry, another investor is just round the corner?
 
Champagneblade said:
Wilder's top targets couldn't be convinced to drop down a division, and to be fair, not many experienced pros that we might have wanted did so. Murphy remained at Leeds, Morsy stayed in the Championship as did all the centre backs we were linked with, aside from Webster, whose club refused to sell him to a rival.

Therefore loans for players featuring further down his list seemed the most sensible approach. (Whether we needed to sell DCL is another debate, thought you'd question if privately Wilder rates him).

Offering permanent deals to players who were further down the list only compounds the issue. I'd rather be committed to paying a percentage of their wages until June than be splashing out a transfer fee, a signing on fee and a wage over three years to a player I'm not 100% sold on.

Maybe if we are there or thereabouts in Jan, we can achieve more, but for now, loans are fine if we can't fully get what we want.
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I'm glad someone has finally made the point about Morsy staying in the Champ. I wish people would stop banging on about how he should come to us when it's very unlikely that he would even want to. You get the feeling that most fans think that most players are just waiting for the Blades to come calling and they'd all sign for us at the drop of a hat.
 
Sean Thornton said:
I think it is. Due to the trading position money that could be used for player investment is having to be used to cover losses. Until that stops its going to be wing and a prayer stuff that one day a manager will find the magic formula.

If he can achieve break even is another thing though.
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John Harris and Bassett did it no superstars initially.
We've never been ambitious never will be but sometimes a side will just gell.
Hope it does for Chris.
 
Lane Ender said:
John Harris and Bassett did it no superstars initially.
We've never been ambitious never will be but sometimes a side will just gell.
Hope it does for Chris.
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That's about the long and short of it Ender. Something strange, even magical, comes over a team and they look the business. They don't need to have cost a fortune, just be willing to fight for one another and show enough talent to mirror their effort.....that's all, easy really!
 
itsinyerblood said:
That's about the long and short of it Ender. Something strange, even magical, comes over a team and they look the business. They don't need to have cost a fortune, just be willing to fight for one another and show enough talent to mirror their effort.....that's all, easy really!
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Like the first season of Wilsons
 



Revolution said:
That's my point. He was given little money and didn't use what he had very well (save for Baxter).
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The difference is Weir had never signed a player in his life and spent most of his career in the top division (and Scotland). He really had no idea how to build or set up a team and had no experience to fall back on.

Wilder's done this job for a long time and has been fairly successful so far. It's like comparing a kid straight out of school/college/uni with someone who's actually been doing his job for fifteen years.
 
BushBlade said:
The difference is Weir had never signed a player in his life and spent most of his career in the top division (and Scotland). He really had no idea how to build or set up a team and had no experience to fall back on.

Wilder's done this job for a long time and has been fairly successful so far. It's like comparing a kid straight out of school/college/uni with someone who's actually been doing his job for fifteen years.
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Well, like I said, let's hope he's up to it. He's never managed at this level before.
 
As I mentioned in another thread, this strategy of cost cutting and reducing losses is a bad one. It is far more of a risk to spend little on players on 2 and 3 year deals, than it is to spend more first and get as close to securing promotion as possible. The cost of investing the extra to secure league one promotion this year would have been far outweighed by the cost that would ensure by not getting promotion for another 2 to 3 years while we wait for the contracts of the players not good enough to run out. It's like anything in everyday life. Do you pay £1k for something that lasts you 5 years, or do you pay £400 for something you have to replace every year?
 
BushBlade said:
True but it isn't a huge step up.
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Expectation levels, size of club, fan base, club infrastructure, stakeholder demands, the Sheffield United factor - biggest underachievers in the FL are all a massive step up from where he's been before.
 
Barney said:
As I mentioned in another thread, this strategy of cost cutting and reducing losses is a bad one. It is far more of a risk to spend little on players on 2 and 3 year deals, than it is to spend more first and get as close to securing promotion as possible. The cost of investing the extra to secure league one promotion this year would have been far outweighed by the cost that would ensure by not getting promotion for another 2 to 3 years while we wait for the contracts of the players not good enough to run out. It's like anything in everyday life. Do you pay £1k for something that lasts you 5 years, or do you pay £400 for something you have to replace every year?
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and if we spent the extra and didnt get promoted and are lumbered with more expensive signings on big wages? Swings and roundabouts, fucked if we do, fucked if we dont.
 
Deaneandagana said:
Expectation levels, size of club, fan base, club infrastructure, stakeholder demands, the Sheffield United factor - biggest underachievers in the FL are all a massive step up from where he's been before.
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It is but my original post was comparing him to Weir. I'm not saying he's the most suitable candidate but he's the one we've got. On paper Adkins was far more able so on the basis a better man failed Wilder has no chance. But there's nowt I can do to change anything so I'll look on the bright side until proven otherwise.
 
S5Blade said:
and if we spent the extra and didnt get promoted and are lumbered with more expensive signings on big wages? Swings and roundabouts, fucked if we do, fucked if we dont.
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We'd be more fucked if we'd spent big again and failed because we'd be stuck with another bunch of overpaid nobbers. At least cheap nobbers are easy to dump.
 
BushBlade said:
It is but my original post was comparing him to Weir. I'm not saying he's the most suitable candidate but he's the one we've got. On paper Adkins was far more able so on the basis a better man failed Wilder has no chance. But there's nowt I can do to change anything so I'll look on the bright side until proven otherwise.
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Apologies didn't read the full conversation, just one more point & it's one I've made before which is that given the size of the task, expectation levels etc etc, the managerial role at SU is now unlike ever before & consequently the skills, experience & managerial savvy required in order for the manager to succeed is a massive ask.

Good luck Chris.
 



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