Let Big Sam have a word with Big Slav

[ThatJa]

A truer word never spoken....

 

[RWE]

We arguably had 2 of the best ball playing centre backs in O’Connell and Basham that got us from League 1 to 9th in Prem, can’t stand big Sam personally, genuine dinosaur in football. Problem with our Defence is our Midfield and dog shit Goalkeeper.

 

[ThatJa]

We arguably had 2 of the best ball playing centre backs in O’Connell and Basham that got us from League 1 to 9th in Prem, can’t stand big Sam personally, genuine dinosaur in football. Problem with our Defence is our Midfield and dog shit Goalkeeper.

So Ramsdale, Verrips, Foderingham and Olsen are all wank, and its because of our midfield? Seriously lol.

You're quite right about Bash and O'Connell, and both haven't features this season (in Bash case)

 

[SwissBlade]

Losing JOC was huge. So much was talked about our overlapping centre halves that the defensive abilities of Bash-Egan(and Jake Wright/ Stearman before him)-JOC with a solid GK behind them was often overlooked in that first season in the Prem.

We finished 9th but conceded just 39 goals (1.03 goals per game) Only liverpool, Man U and City conceded fewer goals. We were much more solid defensively and organised.

Slav likes his side to play the ball out, fine, but we currently don’t have the players to do this effectively enough. More worrying is that we don’t have players that win balls from corners in our box or the opposition.

We’re no longer a dominant team and we’re no longer organised and we’re no longer strong defensively. We’ve conceded 26 goals after just 17 games, 1.53 goals per game.

It’s ok playing 3 attacking players in behind a lone striker, but if everytime we attack the rest of the team get overrun then we’re doing something wrong with how we’re set up.

Slav has a lot to do to with this evolution, he talked in the summer about evolution, but he’s turned it into more of a revolution recently

 

[ATL Recs]

We arguably had 2 of the best ball playing centre backs in O’Connell and Basham that got us from League 1 to 9th in Prem, can’t stand big Sam personally, genuine dinosaur in football. Problem with our Defence is our Midfield and dog shit Goalkeeper.

Problem with our defence is our defence - especially all our full backs who are that bad they are dragging Egan down there to regardless of what I’m front and behind

 

[Cheesebored]

We arguably had 2 of the best ball playing centre backs in O’Connell and Basham that got us from League 1 to 9th in Prem, can’t stand big Sam personally, genuine dinosaur in football. Problem with our Defence is our Midfield and dog shit Goalkeeper.

I agree with your point but generally being a good ball playing CB is simply a bonus. If you can't defend, what's the point? Allardyce might be a dinosaur but I'm with him on this point. It's why we've struggled to keep clean sheets.

 

[originaltrueblade]

Defence what defence don’t blame the keeper when you have rabbits in front of car heights in front of him

 

[nopigfansintown]

The problem is our whole shape which doesn't suit the vast majority of our squad. It should be axiomatic but seems to be hard for people to understand: the fewer players you put in an area the more ground they have to cover and the more balls they have to win. If you play with a four your two centre backs have to cover the space of three men aerially and on the ground. If you play two in the middle instead of three - they have to cover the space of three. Add that together and you have four men covering the space, responsible for all the output and metrics that the six used to be responsible for. Are they capable of increasing their output by such a volume?
Then we go into personnel: you are asking that of Norwood and Fleck: two players that have never been suited to protecting a backline in their whole careers. You ask most United fans and they'll tell you they're all used up; yet we are expecting them to do a job they've never done and arguably never been capable of doing. We've brought Davies in, a player who played next to giants at Preston with midfielders capable of protecting a backline. We've put him in this dysfunctional set up and are criticising him for not being taller and stronger. Egan has never been brilliant in a four, which was underlined in his performance against Portugal the other night when he schooled Ronaldo in a three.
At some point in football you have to have a plan to regain the football. Sheffield United have no plan. If you play the personnel and shape we do the only option is the high press or low block, because our midfield and defence is nowhere near good enough to deal with the defensive transitions which occur more frequently in a mid block. Aside from Bash and Ndiaye we have no capable ball winners within this system when teams are transitioning. This makes us porous through the middle (due to the lack of numbers) when we are aiming to get back in our shape. I think we've looked best when we've pressed high, but I have to concede the lack of a consistent workable plan has been extremely poor.
We don't have any players in the squad with a history of success at full back. Yet we have five wing backs with a lot of success at - you guessed it! - wing back. I haven't seen one player at United out of the current lot who looks like they'll ever be comfortable at full back. This problem is emphasised by the lack of natural wingers in front of them. We have no players with a successful history as a winger, but a lot of players with a lot of success as strikers. Go figure.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the players that are the biggest problem at the Lane this season...

 

[CPB]

Losing JOC was huge. So much was talked about our overlapping centre halves that the defensive abilities of Bash-Egan(and Jake Wright/ Stearman before him)-JOC with a solid GK behind them was often overlooked in that first season in the Prem.

We finished 9th but conceded just 39 goals (1.03 goals per game) Only liverpool, Man U and City conceded fewer goals. We were much more solid defensively and organised.

Slav likes his side to play the ball out, fine, but we currently don’t have the players to do this effectively enough. More worrying is that we don’t have players that win balls from corners in our box or the opposition.

We’re no longer a dominant team and we’re no longer organised and we’re no longer strong defensively. We’ve conceded 26 goals after just 17 games, 1.53 goals per game.

It’s ok playing 3 attacking players in behind a lone striker, but if everytime we attack the rest of the team get overrun then we’re doing something wrong with how we’re set up.

Slav has a lot to do to with this evolution, he talked in the summer about evolution, but he’s turned it into more of a revolution recently

Exactly how I see it too.

Think your last point is v.true. I think he's tried to change too much too fast. Without barely any change in players.

 

[Carlton Blade]

We arguably had 2 of the best ball playing centre backs in O’Connell and Basham that got us from League 1 to 9th in Prem, can’t stand big Sam personally, genuine dinosaur in football. Problem with our Defence is our Midfield and dog shit Goalkeeper.

They were both decent on the ball. Neither is anywhere near even being in the conversation for being an honourable mention as being somewhere near the best

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

The problem is our whole shape which doesn't suit the vast majority of our squad. It should be axiomatic but seems to be hard for people to understand: the fewer players you put in an area the more ground they have to cover and the more balls they have to win. If you play with a four your two centre backs have to cover the space of three men aerially and on the ground. If you play two in the middle instead of three - they have to cover the space of three. Add that together and you have four men covering the space, responsible for all the output and metrics that the six used to be responsible for. Are they capable of increasing their output by such a volume?
Then we go into personnel: you are asking that of Norwood and Fleck: two players that have never been suited to protecting a backline in their whole careers. You ask most United fans and they'll tell you they're all used up; yet we are expecting them to do a job they've never done and arguably never been capable of doing. We've brought Davies in, a player who played next to giants at Preston with midfielders capable of protecting a backline. We've put him in this dysfunctional set up and are criticising him for not being taller and stronger. Egan has never been brilliant in a four, which was underlined in his performance against Portugal the other night when he schooled Ronaldo in a three.
At some point in football you have to have a plan to regain the football. Sheffield United have no plan. If you play the personnel and shape we do the only option is the high press or low block, because our midfield and defence is nowhere near good enough to deal with the defensive transitions which occur more frequently in a mid block. Aside from Bash and Ndiaye we have no capable ball winners within this system when teams are transitioning. This makes us porous through the middle (due to the lack of numbers) when we are aiming to get back in our shape. I think we've looked best when we've pressed high, but I have to concede the lack of a consistent workable plan has been extremely poor.
We don't have any players in the squad with a history of success at full back. Yet we have five wing backs with a lot of success at - you guessed it! - wing back. I haven't seen one player at United out of the current lot who looks like they'll ever be comfortable at full back. This problem is emphasised by the lack of natural wingers in front of them. We have no players with a successful history as a winger, but a lot of players with a lot of success as strikers. Go figure.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the players that are the biggest problem at the Lane this season...

Have a fucking like for "axiomatic".

 

[Davalon]

Sam can take his massive chops and fuck off to see Jeff Goldblum and Sam Neill

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Big Sam is quite correct . Of the two qualities mentioned it is blindingly obvious which is the more important and as others have said , the ability to play out from the back should only be looked on as an added bonus , albeit a very useful one .

Down the years , there have been very few centre backs who were outstanding in both respects .

My hero was unquestionably one of that very select few .

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Manager that typically deploys eye-bleedingly-bad football, doesn’t like ball-playing defenders

 

[Upton_Blade]

Slav likes his side to play the ball out, fine, but we currently don’t have the players to do this effectively enough. More worrying is that we don’t have players that win balls from corners in our box or the opposition.

Every single thread on here about how bad are defence are could be solved with one simple switch and the fact Slav can't see it, or won't do it, is possibly the most worrying aspect of his leadership so far.

He's got 3 decent CB's who all suit 3 at the back but he seems intent on sticking square pegs in round holes. He's got possibly our best CB sat on the bench and then plays 2 CB's that blatently can't play in a 4. On top of that we don't have a single RB or LB at the club. What we do have is an abundance of RWB's and LWB's.

I've stated this, what feels like a million times, that 343 is the obvious solution to make this evolution and not the revolution we are seeing right now.

If Slav doesn't then he's either not as good as we all thought or he's had enough already and is angling for a payoff.

 

[LJBlade]

Every single thread on here about how bad are defence are could be solved with one simple switch and the fact Slav can't see it, or won't do it, is possibly the most worrying aspect of his leadership so far.

He's got 3 decent CB's who all suit 3 at the back but he seems intent on sticking square pegs in round holes. He's got possibly our best CB sat on the bench and then plays 2 CB's that blatently can't play in a 4. On top of that we don't have a single RB or LB at the club. What we do have is an abundance of RWB's and LWB's.

I've stated this, what feels like a million times, that 343 is the obvious solution to make this evolution and not the revolution we are seeing right now.

If Slav doesn't then he's either not as good as we all thought or he's had enough already and is angling for a payoff.

3 at the back was apparently the problem last season, now it’s the solution.

 

[Come from away]

If we are going to play a back four then we need four who can defend, i.e., drop our converted wing backs and play Basham, Egan, Lopata and Ben Davies. We need to stop the rot.

 

[Upton_Blade]

3 at the back was apparently the problem last season, now it’s the solution.

If you don't think it's the solution to our current problems then I'm not sure football's for you TBH.

 

[LJBlade]

If you don't think it's the solution to our current problems then I'm not sure football's for you TBH.

My comment wasn’t really aimed at you, more at how quickly opinions change on here, but at least it’s given you a chance to demonstrate your vast knowledge of the game.

 

[DaleHillBlade]

Exactly how I see it too.

Think your last point is v.true. I think he's tried to change too much too fast. Without barely any change in players.

But.. he had to change things quickly from the shitshow of last season. At least this season we’re not the utter embarrassment of the league (to date)

 

[Jan Age]

You will never win anything without a solid midfield

 

[Snowflake]

The problem is our whole shape which doesn't suit the vast majority of our squad. It should be axiomatic but seems to be hard for people to understand: the fewer players you put in an area the more ground they have to cover and the more balls they have to win. If you play with a four your two centre backs have to cover the space of three men aerially and on the ground. If you play two in the middle instead of three - they have to cover the space of three. Add that together and you have four men covering the space, responsible for all the output and metrics that the six used to be responsible for. Are they capable of increasing their output by such a volume?
Then we go into personnel: you are asking that of Norwood and Fleck: two players that have never been suited to protecting a backline in their whole careers. You ask most United fans and they'll tell you they're all used up; yet we are expecting them to do a job they've never done and arguably never been capable of doing. We've brought Davies in, a player who played next to giants at Preston with midfielders capable of protecting a backline. We've put him in this dysfunctional set up and are criticising him for not being taller and stronger. Egan has never been brilliant in a four, which was underlined in his performance against Portugal the other night when he schooled Ronaldo in a three.
At some point in football you have to have a plan to regain the football. Sheffield United have no plan. If you play the personnel and shape we do the only option is the high press or low block, because our midfield and defence is nowhere near good enough to deal with the defensive transitions which occur more frequently in a mid block. Aside from Bash and Ndiaye we have no capable ball winners within this system when teams are transitioning. This makes us porous through the middle (due to the lack of numbers) when we are aiming to get back in our shape. I think we've looked best when we've pressed high, but I have to concede the lack of a consistent workable plan has been extremely poor.
We don't have any players in the squad with a history of success at full back. Yet we have five wing backs with a lot of success at - you guessed it! - wing back. I haven't seen one player at United out of the current lot who looks like they'll ever be comfortable at full back. This problem is emphasised by the lack of natural wingers in front of them. We have no players with a successful history as a winger, but a lot of players with a lot of success as strikers. Go figure.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the players that are the biggest problem at the Lane this season...

Many good points, but these are players towards the top of their profession playing in a league lower than previous seasons.
They should be able to adapt reasonably quickly.
Why cannot a wing back turn himself into a full back or a winger ? If they are competent footballers they can do so with training sessions and matches.
If we were still in the league above then I would agree that they cannot morph into something else at a sufficiently high standard to compete, but at this level (and in the main it is very poor) they should be good enough to adapt so that the team is in the top six.

 

[Davalon]

Every single thread on here about how bad are defence are could be solved with one simple switch and the fact Slav can't see it, or won't do it, is possibly the most worrying aspect of his leadership so far.

He's got 3 decent CB's who all suit 3 at the back but he seems intent on sticking square pegs in round holes. He's got possibly our best CB sat on the bench and then plays 2 CB's that blatently can't play in a 4. On top of that we don't have a single RB or LB at the club. What we do have is an abundance of RWB's and LWB's.

I've stated this, what feels like a million times, that 343 is the obvious solution to make this evolution and not the revolution we are seeing right now.

If Slav doesn't then he's either not as good as we all thought or he's had enough already and is angling for a payoff.

Did you miss him try this briefly early season and the constant failure of it last?

We barely created a chance playing that way.

I agree we've given some sloppy goals away but some seem to ignore the chances missed far less than the defensive mistakes.

We were poor overall at Blackburn imho but we missed at least 3 sitters.

I'd much rather we continue creating and try to iron out some of the avoidable errors.

The notion that our defence is incapable of operating as a four full stop doesn't sit right with me.

Most of those players have performed well in a four for other teams, including at international level.

Patience is a virtue.

I haven't the inclination to research this but it would be interesting to see how many of those clamouring for Wilder to change the system last season, are now clamouring for Slav to do the same.