Lessons from Bury, Bolton & Barca

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HD8 Blades

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Thankfully our club has been run properly with the long term future of the club being regarded as the most important thing. As painful as it was I'll take 6 years in League 1 for having a club in 50 years

I doubt that there are 30 -40 people on here that love that club and have 10's of millions to spend and it frustrates me to think that the only way to succeed long term, is to have a billionaire playboy as an owner or to aspire to be Watford, Burnley or Bournemouth. Can someone with more nouse than me please come up with a way that we, the fans who love the club can own the club and ensure that a club that are easily one of the top 20 clubs in England can stay here.

After bills I have £17.24 if that helps?
 



Thankfully our club has been run properly with the long term future of the club being regarded as the most important thing. As painful as it was I'll take 6 years in League 1 for having a club in 50 years

I doubt that there are 30 -40 people on here that love that club and have 10's of millions to spend and it frustrates me to think that the only way to succeed long term, is to have a billionaire playboy as an owner or to aspire to be Watford, Burnley or Bournemouth. Can someone with more nouse than me please come up with a way that we, the fans who love the club can own the club and ensure that a club that are easily one of the top 20 clubs in England can stay here.
Don't own a club in a city starting with B?
 
Thankfully our club has been run properly
Disagree. From the time we left the premiership to the point in time Wilder turned up we really weren't much different from many other clubs, spending millions more than we earned. McCabe for all his mistakes and any other faults you want to hang off him bailed us out for years rather than running up club debt. The difference between us and some of the other clubs was he didn't run up debt and pay himself handsomely for the privilege.
 
Court case result pending and new owners on the horizon. However we have been run in the past will make no difference if the club ends up in the hands of a glory hunting idiot, asset stripping tycoon or a bloke with no idea what football is about. Lets hope it turns out better than pigs last takeover.
RIP Bury. There but for etc.etc
 
Disagree. From the time we left the premiership to the point in time Wilder turned up we really weren't much different from many other clubs, spending millions more than we earned. McCabe for all his mistakes and any other faults you want to hang off him bailed us out for years rather than running up club debt. The difference between us and some of the other clubs was he didn't run up debt and pay himself handsomely for the privilege.

Woah, there.

Spending millions? What on? Sacked managers? Desso?

You make it sound like we signed De Bruyne, Messi, Iniesta, Bale, Ronaldo, Van Dyk, Salah and Sterling and still somehow failed to get out of Div One.

Truth is, some fucking dreadful managerial appointments kept us in the second and third tier well beyond the length of time we should have been there. In that time we flogged a fuck tonne of decent players (like Harry Maguire, for example) and failed to sign better players (Connor Coady, anyone?) whilst still managing to keep respectable gates and a decent away following.

pommpey
 
Got to go to work but I need to come back to answer this unless somebody else fields a response in the meantime but short answer, we still spent millions more than we earned and over 6 years that amounts to a sum of money if it hadn't been funded would have seen us in the place of Bury or Bolton.
 
Woah, there.

Spending millions? What on? Sacked managers? Desso?

You make it sound like we signed De Bruyne, Messi, Iniesta, Bale, Ronaldo, Van Dyk, Salah and Sterling and still somehow failed to get out of Div One.

Truth is, some fucking dreadful managerial appointments kept us in the second and third tier well beyond the length of time we should have been there. In that time we flogged a fuck tonne of decent players (like Harry Maguire, for example) and failed to sign better players (Connor Coady, anyone?) whilst still managing to keep respectable gates and a decent away following.

pommpey

Are you saying we didn't spend "millions" then?
 
Woah, there.

Spending millions? What on? Sacked managers? Desso?

You make it sound like we signed De Bruyne, Messi, Iniesta, Bale, Ronaldo, Van Dyk, Salah and Sterling and still somehow failed to get out of Div One.

Truth is, some fucking dreadful managerial appointments kept us in the second and third tier well beyond the length of time we should have been there. In that time we flogged a fuck tonne of decent players (like Harry Maguire, for example) and failed to sign better players (Connor Coady, anyone?) whilst still managing to keep respectable gates and a decent away following.

pommpey

How was the shortfall made up each season?

Agree on some of the managerial appointments, and we had to sell players due to where we were as a potential result of the poor managers but thats normal.

Why do you think we had a chance of signing CC?

I appreciate you don't like McCabe and/or the Prince, but you really can't deny that he / them have put money in to keep us afloat.
 
Are you saying we didn't spend "millions" then?

Read the rest of the post. Sacked managers.

HRH came in and effectively stabilised the boat on that one. Note how every manager, except warnock, is silent on their mysterious exit.

As said, no one hired these berks, except Kevin McCabe. Let's not get too firm in the pants on his contributions, eh?

pommpey
 
How was the shortfall made up each season?

Agree on some of the managerial appointments, and we had to sell players due to where we were as a potential result of the poor managers but thats normal.

Why do you think we had a chance of signing CC?

I appreciate you don't like McCabe and/or the Prince, but you really can't deny that he / them have put money in to keep us afloat.

You can't get away with saying appointing, sacking and paying off several poor managers is 'normal'. Not if you want to retain some form of credibility to your argument.

Coady was going for the princely sum of £375k, after his loan spell with us. He was clearly excellent and something to build on.

Huddersfield snapped him up next season for £500k. We went better than that and signed the superb Michael Higdon, James Wallace and Marc McNulty. Great business, Kev.

pommpey
 
You can't get away with saying appointing, sacking and paying off several poor managers is 'normal'.

It is though.

If you are a 'big club' and you don't perform as expected, you sack your manager.

Per the LMA in 2016/17 the average tenure of a manager was 1.16 years.

On that reckoning our 9 years from 2007 - 2016 (when CW arrived), should have meant we had about 8 managers.
If you count permanent ones, we had 8.

We aren't alone and KM is not the only owner with a gift to pick bad managers, while everybody else around us gets it spot on.

I know you don't like KM (as a person, neither do I particularly). What can't be ignored is that without him putting millions in and then BGP in the later years, we'd have gone years ago.
 
You can't get away with saying appointing, sacking and paying off several poor managers is 'normal'. Not if you want to retain some form of credibility to your argument.

Coady was going for the princely sum of £375k, after his loan spell with us. He was clearly excellent and something to build on.

Huddersfield snapped him up next season for £500k. We went better than that and signed the superb Michael Higdon, James Wallace and Marc McNulty. Great business, Kev.

pommpey

You can blame Kevin McCabe for many things but the blame for signing Higdon, Wallace, McNulty and all the other shite between October 2013 and May 2015 should be laid solely at the feet of Nigel Clough. Clough and his brother had full remit over the recruitment during that phase.

You also neglect to mention that Conor Coady joined Championship Huddersfield over League One us. We'd also been quoted a much higher figure by Liverpool than the £375k he eventually went for so Clough moved on (laugably, as we know with the benefit of hindsight) to James Wallace.

I agree on the churn of signing managers on three year deals then dispensing with them though. I have a feeling that in Wilder's first season we were effectively paying for him, Nigel Adkins and Nigel Clough. Ridiculous.
 
You can't get away with saying appointing, sacking and paying off several poor managers is 'normal'. Not if you want to retain some form of credibility to your argument.

Coady was going for the princely sum of £375k, after his loan spell with us. He was clearly excellent and something to build on.

Huddersfield snapped him up next season for £500k. We went better than that and signed the superb Michael Higdon, James Wallace and Marc McNulty. Great business, Kev.

pommpey

On the "normal" issue, I should coco has shown it to be the case excellently.

Coady may well have been going for that amount, but what makes you think he wanted another season of League 1 football. Not disputing his quality but he wanted to test himself higher up, that takes it out of our hands.

You think McCabe signed the players you listed? and you mention something about credibility of argument, need to practice what you preach.
 
However we have been run in the past will make no difference if the club ends up in the hands of a glory hunting idiot, asset stripping tycoon or a bloke with no idea what football is about.

Well we already have two out of the three types you mention!
 
On the "normal" issue, I should coco has shown it to be the case excellently.

Coady may well have been going for that amount, but what makes you think he wanted another season of League 1 football. Not disputing his quality but he wanted to test himself higher up, that takes it out of our hands.

You think McCabe signed the players you listed? and you mention something about credibility of argument, need to practice what you preach.

Are you saying that McCabe doesn't have any influence in who the club signs?

Do you understand how football clubs function?

Here's one for you. A number of managers have either been appointed and sacked or appointed and left 'by mutual agreement', some mysteriously at the beginning of a season, some fifteen games into a disastrous start,some apropos of fuck all. None have explained why. Not-a-fucking-peep. Some of these we hear are as a result of promises made, or disillusionment with the recruitment/transfer ambitions unfulfilled.

Why?

pommpey
 



Are you saying that McCabe doesn't have any influence in who the club signs?

Do you understand how football clubs function?

Here's one for you. A number of managers have either been appointed and sacked or appointed and left 'by mutual agreement', some mysteriously at the beginning of a season, some fifteen games into a disastrous start,some apropos of fuck all. None have explained why. Not-a-fucking-peep. Some of these we hear are as a result of promises made, or disillusionment with the recruitment/transfer ambitions unfulfilled.

Why?

pommpey

Of course he has an influence, I'm sure he has a big influence on the budget set.

Are you trying to tell me that Clough didn't sign the players, he may not have been able to sign the ones he wanted but that would more likely be due to budget constraints, no Nige we can't afford Messi whats your next option... (Judging by evidence from the court case possibly more influence may have been justified)

You're asking me if I know how a football club functions??, ooh the irony is strong in you. Maybe if you took your McCabe rage glasses off you might understand how a football club works.

Left by "Mutual agreement" or sacked, fairly standard practice that nobody says anything. Please regale me with various examples of other clubs managers leaving by "mutual agreement" or sacked where they given in depth details as to why.

Some may have been disillusioned for various reasons, we fucking were in the stands, but that doesn't mean McCabe was signing players.

Are you not answering my question on how the shortfall was made up each year?
 
Read the rest of the post. Sacked managers.

HRH came in and effectively stabilised the boat on that one. Note how every manager, except warnock, is silent on their mysterious exit.

As said, no one hired these berks, except Kevin McCabe. Let's not get too firm in the pants on his contributions, eh?

pommpey


Ok. So you're saying they did spend money, but they spent it all on "sacked managers" and a "desso"?

And you're saying "no one hired these berks, except Kevin McCabe"? Despite the fact that the prince has been on board since 2013, which means he was there to oversee at least 3 managerial appointments.
 
None have explained why. Not-a-fucking-peep. Some of these we hear are as a result of promises made, or disillusionment with the recruitment/transfer ambitions unfulfilled.

Why?

Simples! - Non disclosure agreements to get their compo'.

Where is David Moyes dissing Manyoo, Koemann slagging Everton or Jose having a pop at Chelsea?

Get real. It's not just McCabe who sacks managers.

Why do you think other managers don't come out and explain why they were so crap and desereved to be sacked.
 
whilst still managing to keep respectable gates and a decent away following.

Though this hardly pays for the running of a football club.

But don't let me get in the way of you having a go at McCabe, there are plenty more, far worse owners out there. I could list you 20 or 30 very badly run clubs if you like.
 
Woah, there.

Spending millions? What on? Sacked managers? Desso?

You make it sound like we signed De Bruyne, Messi, Iniesta, Bale, Ronaldo, Van Dyk, Salah and Sterling and still somehow failed to get out of Div One.

Truth is, some fucking dreadful managerial appointments kept us in the second and third tier well beyond the length of time we should have been there. In that time we flogged a fuck tonne of decent players (like Harry Maguire, for example) and failed to sign better players (Connor Coady, anyone?) whilst still managing to keep respectable gates and a decent away following.

pommpey

Some dreadful mangers since Warnock!
The first two after Warnock wasted the best chance ever to establish us as a top champ/lower prem yo-yo team, and something to build on. Blackwell secured average to shit players on daft money long term, and didn’t know how to use the few good players we did have.
Those failings led to the inevitable sales of the best talent to ever come out of the academy, and in a position so weak we couldn’t play hard ball and sold far too cheaply IMHO.
The relegation then led to more cuts, and a bigger spiral as the Adams appointment left us with even worse players like Doyle and Collins on huge salaries considering their ability. This alone impacted massively on the ability of the managers prevailing being able to bring in replacements.
Now, Clough’s arrival was interesting, as very early promise led to the arrival of several players who made and continue to make a big impact under Wilder. He was hampered by board battles and involvement which did see us lose out on players like Coady, yet overpay for Brayford. But ultimately his dour approach and demeanour meant he failed to deliver.
Adkins came in as the pick of the fans too, let’s not forget that. And he also brought in Sharp, while wasted huge sums on complete dross like Hammond, woollford, Sammon...so while we again failed it’s not all the owners fault there.

And now, here we are. McCabe picked a good un, not everyone’s favourite pick either. He jumped in to nab him just as he was going elsewhere and the rest is history.
And while he made the huge fuck ups, KM still kept funding the losses he created with his decisions. He could have walked away, like owners have other clubs (Dave Richards, the previous Bury owner) and reduced his losses, but he didn’t and as desperation came in (he simply was running out of money to keep funding) he got the prince in.
Now he’s not in quite the mess he was and fighting to keep the club.
Personally, though it was shit in L1, I’m glad we had KM when you look at the likes of this Dale chap.
 
You have a few millions and the opportunity arises for you to buy your home club. For that moment in time when your head should be going' back away now' your heart is going 'yes, yes, yes'
You buy said club , you are a fan of the club , but even tho you are a highly successful business man you are not qualified to run a football team. For this you need a manager and how many times have members on this very forum argued about who is going to run our wonderful club.
So you decide on a manager and he produces a list of players he wants to buy , you then tell him his budget and he reappears somewhat later with another list.
Players are bought.....results don't go as planned, fans are not happy. Manager is under pressure and declares he must have a certain player to cement the squad and improve results. You write the cheque but the player is absolute rubbish and results go from bad to worse. More pressure from fans, you panic , another managers name maybe is whispered in your ear and you sack your existing manager and appoint another one.
Meanwhile, the player that the previous manager said was the best thing since sliced bread but turns out to be as effective as a chocolate teapot has been dropped but his wages are astronomical. You therefore bite the bullit and Pay him off, get him off the books and start again........
Repeat and rewind.......it's not as easy as it looks.....
 
And now, here we are. McCabe picked a good un, not everyone’s favourite pick either. He jumped in to nab him just as he was going elsewhere and the rest is history.
And while he made the huge fuck ups, KM still kept funding the losses he created with his decisions. He could have walked away, like owners have other clubs (Dave Richards, the previous Bury owner) and reduced his losses, but he didn’t and as desperation came in (he simply was running out of money to keep funding) he got the prince in.
Now he’s not in quite the mess he was and fighting to keep the club.
Personally, though it was shit in L1, I’m glad we had KM when you look at the likes of this Dale chap.

Several likes for your ability to see reason.
 
I know you don't like KM (as a person, neither do I particularly). What can't be ignored is that without him putting millions in and then BGP in the later years, we'd have gone years ago.

Yes but I have bought a pie, a ticket and five pints of beer every match for the last twenty years and there are 20.000 of us so we have kept the club afloat.

One fans contribution over 20 years would not cover Dean Hendersons wages for one week.
 

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