Kennedy, Reed and Diego.

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

So he signed him, played him then rested him. Sounds like a right twat this Clough bloke.

My view is Clough played it right , with young Che . His positioning , concentration and overall performance somtimes over 90 minutes , would have created him and the team problems . He was going through a steep learning curve last season . He did prove himself as a impact player off the bench.

He has excelled over the summer , but what we have to take on board this season , the lad has two seasoned professionals helping him on the field with BS - CS , and Adkins off it.

Whatever way you look at it , its a win win situation for Adkins , team and us fans

UTB

 

[Bladesway]

As expected, you couldn't and still fail to justify his actions. You haven't answered my question of what shouting on the touch line achieved, because I was sat pretty close to where Clough was standing and even I struggled to make out what he was saying, and Che was at the other end of the pitch, and even when he finally could have got within listening distance, he was already at the halfway line ready to go again anyway, so I'm afraid your thinking that Clough had any change on what Che did is quite simply ridiculous.

Predictable answer full of lots of words and no actual challenge of my previous posts. I'm still waiting for a valid counter argument of Clough's actions, because so far it's been purely pie in the sky.

You can take a horse to water...........

 

[Bladesway]

My view is Clough played it right , with young Che . His positioning , concentration and overall performance somtimes over 90 minutes , would have created him and the team problems . He was going through a steep learning curve last season . He did prove himself as a impact player off the bench.

He has excelled over the summer , but what we have to take on board this season , the lad has two seasoned professionals helping him on the field with BS - CS , and Adkins off it.

Whatever way you look at it , its a win win situation for Adkins , team and us fans

UTB

Thank you, for a minute I thought I was going to have to go back to drinking.

 

[Bladesway]

Can you imagine Adkins doing what Clough did?

No, that's because he's a very decent and respectable manager that goes about things in the correct manner, appreciating the fact that a personal and public hammering of one of your own players achieves nothing other than the plummet of said players confidence as well as general bad morale.

No because he is a better man manager. But that wasn't the question was it? If it was then you went an arse about face way of not asking it.

I could see Warnock or Bassett doing the same though. They were two of the best managers we have ever had at the club, so you going to have a swipe at them because they have a different style?

 

[Barney]

No because he is a better man manager. But that wasn't the question was it? If it was then you went an arse about face way of not asking it.

I could see Warnock or Bassett doing the same though. They were two of the best managers we have ever had at the club, so you going to have a swipe at them because they have a different style?

In what way is that not the question? We're discussing whether Clough was in the wrong to do what he did to Che Adams. The fact that you can't answer my other post, you've accepted Adkins wouldn't dream of doing what Clough did and finally couple that with the widely accepted opinion that Adkins looks to be one of our best managers of recent years, it can't all just be a co-incidence can it?

I'm all for managers with different styles but when the style crosses the line into public berating and humiliation of players whilst achieving nothing at all, then I will voice my opinion to challenge it.

 

[Bladesway]

In what way is that not the question?

In the way you never actually asked or alluded to that question. Apart from that it appears you have me

 

[Barney]

In the way you never actually asked or alluded to that question. Apart from that it appears you have me

Isn't it yet another piece of evidence to prove that Clough did wrong?

 

[Bladesway]

Isn't it yet another piece of evidence to prove that Clough did wrong?

Clough did wrong? If stopping us getting relegated to the fourth division (do you remember the last time that happened?) and then getting us to 2 cup semi finals is wrong, I'm not sure I ever want to be right. If (and I don't know how it works with you) you are saying had Clough reached the peak of what he could achieve then we could have an altogether more interesting debate, but as I and probably everyone else is bored of this now I am stopping. You and I will not and cannot see eye to eye on this so for the sake of me going off to work on some revenue pivot tables I get off the bus here.

Enjoy yourself.

 

[Barney]

Clough did wrong? If stopping us getting relegated to the fourth division (do you remember the last time that happened?) and then getting us to 2 cup semi finals is wrong, I'm not sure I ever want to be right. If (and I don't know how it works with you) you are saying had Clough reached the peak of what he could achieve then we could have an altogether more interesting debate, but as I and probably everyone else is bored of this now I am stopping. You and I will not and cannot see eye to eye on this so for the sake of me going off to work on some revenue pivot tables I get off the bus here.

Enjoy yourself.

I haven't said a word about anything other than how Clough acted during and after the spurs game, so why you keep insisting on bringing things up that having nothing to do with this is slightly strange.

You're diverting from the original subject of Clough's public humiliation of Che, and I suspect I might know why.

 

[Gibbo89]

Think I've said this before barny... Clough has left the building, he has left for good and won't be coming back.
Can we just move on and forget about him? ... Please?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Can you imagine Adkins doing what Clough did?

No, that's because he's a very decent and respectable manager that goes about things in the correct manner, appreciating the fact that a personal and public hammering of one of your own players achieves nothing other than the plummet of said players confidence as well as general bad morale.

Hasn’t Adkins just said something along the lines of

“contract talks are on-going but for now he needs to concentrate on his football. He’s still very raw and can drive you mad”

I’ve not heard the interview but seen something to this effect on another thread. That seems a little critical and whilst he’s done it in a slightly more personable way than Clough, I think the intention of both is just to keep the kids feet on the ground. So many young players start thinking they’ve made it before they have these days. It’s a manager’s job to try to prevent that from happening.

I don’t have a problem with Clough’s handling of Adams. Perhaps he might have brought him on in more games but I don’t think he was ready to start week in week out. Even now, he will have dips in form and poor games.

 

[Barney]

Hasn’t Adkins just said something along the lines of

“contract talks are on-going but for now he needs to concentrate on his football. He’s still very raw and can drive you mad”

I’ve not heard the interview but seen something to this effect on another thread. That seems a little critical and whilst he’s done it in a slightly more personable way than Clough, I think the intention of both is just to keep the kids feet on the ground. So many young players start thinking they’ve made it before they have these days. It’s a manager’s job to try to prevent that from happening.

I don’t have a problem with Clough’s handling of Adams. Perhaps he might have brought him on in more games but I don’t think he was ready to start week in week out. Even now, he will have dips in form and poor games.

The two quotes from the respective managers are very different unfortunately. I haven't debated anything other than what Clough did to Adams during and after the spurs game. So the other info is redundant in this case.

All i'm saying is I personally think how he acted and what he said on that night was categorically wrong.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That’s fair enough barny and you’re as entitled to your view as anyone else.

Personally, I wouldn’t go as far as to say “categorically wrong” but would say the delivery (as was often the case with Clough) was a little off. That’s what I was getting at with Adkins being more personable. He can offer a criticism but put it across in a more constructive and positive manner.

That being said, to Clough’s credit, he did give Adams praise in that interview after the Spurs game talking about how far he can go in the game but he sought to balance that out by saying how much he still has to learn pointing to the celebration when we still needed a goal as an example. I don’t think there’s a lot wrong with that but appreciate it might not be to everyone’s taste.

Being a football manager is a bit like being a parent. It doesn’t come with a universal list of right and wrong answers and involves a lot of ad hock decision making handling individuals. Each manager handles a situation as he thinks will help the team most and only with the benefit of hindsight do we see whether it was the right call….. sometimes, not even then such as in this case when talking about the handling of a young player. We won’t know the alternative effect if he had handled it differently.