Keeping Wilder means accepting relegation

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Kevincarterversion2.0 said:
The concern for me is that CW and the players will be so damaged mentally by this season (assuming we go down, with something like lower than 10 points) then next season we will struggle again. A losing culture is hard to change once it gets embedded.

Some big decisions for the Prince.
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Potentially do both Bournemouth and Norwich are doing well this year after dropping. I use them as an example because I don’t think Watford can compare to us because they operate very differently to us as a club. So Bournemouth kept a lot of the players but changed the manager and Norwich kept the manager but changed a lot of the players. I’ve said it elsewhere but due to the age of a lot of our players I think we’d be looking at a very high rate of player turnover in the summer so theoretically the manager could stay as he would have new players to work with.
 
Yogi said:
Potentially do both Bournemouth and Norwich are doing well this year after dropping. I use them as an example because I don’t think Watford can compare to us because they operate very differently to us as a club. So Bournemouth kept a lot of the players but changed the manager and Norwich kept the manager but changed a lot of the players. I’ve said it elsewhere but due to the age of a lot of our players I think we’d be looking at a very high rate of player turnover in the summer so theoretically the manager could stay as he would have new players to work with.
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In theory. It's going to be a gamble either way.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
Ahh yes, I forgot about those 10 minutes at the end of every game when we don’t have a clue what to do and throw a load of strikers on.
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I’m saying we played a proper 442 from the start of second half. With full backs pushing high. We then went 433 when basham went off. The shape was there all the time which suggests they’ve been working on it a lot.

We might see more of that next few games
 
FMBlade1 said:
What's your opinion then?
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That you watch the forum, see which way the wind is blowing and post accordingly. As l’ve said, always with a get out clause. At least the ranters give it 100%.

Exactly the same with your comments on Allardyce. Another suggestion with a caveat. Yet you said some time ago you were sick of seeing him around.

As for the team/manager, they seem lost. No tempo, no confidence, lacking in spirit, Baldock and Egan, probably Basham and McBurnie, excepted.

Wilder. Stubborn, team selections that make no sense. Puts Sharp in and plays a game style in which Billy will never get a look in. The only pace in the side are all on the bench today. Is sacking him the answer, not for me, not yet, although l hear pundits talk about us being hard working, that’s because we are getting the run around. Until the midfield can be sorted, that won’t change because that’s where the problems are.

I can see very little spirit, on the pitch or in the back room.

As for which manager to come in, the vast majority of applicants will be total non starters, so for me, your “hundreds” claim is yet more nonsense.
 
HeySethUTB said:
What makes anyone think we compete in the championship? This team is no where near as good as the one that come up.
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This team in their current state gets nowhere near the top end of the Championship. It’s laughable that some people think going down will magically spark the club back into life again.

I also agree with the second part of your quote. It’s just mind boggling that we’ve spent £130m+ or whatever it is since promotion.
 
Yogi said:
Potentially do both Bournemouth and Norwich are doing well this year after dropping. I use them as an example because I don’t think Watford can compare to us because they operate very differently to us as a club. So Bournemouth kept a lot of the players but changed the manager and Norwich kept the manager but changed a lot of the players. I’ve said it elsewhere but due to the age of a lot of our players I think we’d be looking at a very high rate of player turnover in the summer so theoretically the manager could stay as he would have new players to work with.
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I don't really think either are comparable. Norwich changed a lot of players as they sold them to Premier League sides. I assume Aarons might be off in January as well. Bournemouth had an abundance of attacking players and let some of them go. They had a much more talented squad than us.

We'll sell Berge and that's about it. Someone might test us with a low bid for Brewster. Our players have all been given new contracts on lower Premier League wages so we're likely stuck with them as no one in the PL will want them and I can't imagine fierce competition from the Championship or players wanting to leave sideways. So, next year, we have largely the same team as this year.
 
robbiez666 said:
I don't really think either are comparable. Norwich changed a lot of players as they sold them to Premier League sides. I assume Aarons might be off in January as well. Bournemouth had an abundance of attacking players and let some of them go. They had a much more talented squad than us.

We'll sell Berge and that's about it. Someone might test us with a low bid for Brewster. Our players have all been given new contracts on lower Premier League wages so we're likely stuck with them as no one in the PL will want them and I can't imagine fierce competition from the Championship or players wanting to leave sideways. So, next year, we have largely the same team as this year.
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I’m not saying we’ll sell at as high a value as either club did but that wasn’t my point my point was that Bournemouth didn’t turn over that much of their 11 and therefore changed manager to freshen things up. Norwich did turnover a large portion of the team and so kept the manager as a large portion of the players were fresh. We’ll in all likelihood turnover a large portion of our 11 because of a deterioration due to age.

I can see someone taking a punt on Stevens and offering semi decent money for Baldock. jags will be phased out and potentially retire. Norwood similar someone will take a punt or we might keep him as a squad option Lundstram will be gone. Billy in all likelihood will stay but McGoldrick may not as again he’s worth a punt to a championship side their wages after relegation clauses will by no means be beyond the means of champ sides.
 
Do we have to have this thread after every match?

No offense to the OP, but it's just repetitive and boring.

Everyone has their views. The vast majority are either end of season and bounce back or if no improvement by January. Is it really necessary to have one after every defeat?

It's depressing enough losing all the time as it is, without the agony of rehashing reasons to be cheerful or whatever your stance.

We had a poll. Over 70% said even if we went down stick with him. Can we just leave it at that or have a poll in a few months otherwise everyone can just copy and paste their replies from last week or the week before.

I get the defence that I know it's not going well therefore I want change but I'm not a football person so don't ask me for the replacement.

I understand that on a professional level but if you are advocating a bloke losing his job, then at least on a message board, put an alternative out there to debate. Unless your suggestion is to remove the manager and then just let the players pick the team and tactics?!

Up The Fucking Blades
 
keep the manager change the system and go back to being positive i dont agree with all these blades saying we wont come back up the championship is poor nowadays only got to look how norwich bournemouth and watford are doing to prove that hell of a difference playing against internationals every week and playing in this league
 
A Storm of Blades said:
I have to ask, what would be the point if this is the level of performance they put in?
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I don't think a period of poor performances demonstrates that the manager can't get the players to perform well again in the (nearer the better) future; and I'm also not remotely convinced there's any manager available to us who would get substantially more out of the players, or safeguard the future of the club better than Wilder
 
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Yogi said:
I’m not saying we’ll sell at as high a value as either club did but that wasn’t my point my point was that Bournemouth didn’t turn over that much of their 11 and therefore changed manager to freshen things up. Norwich did turnover a large portion of the team and so kept the manager as a large portion of the players were fresh. We’ll in all likelihood turnover a large portion of our 11 because of a deterioration due to age.

I can see someone taking a punt on Stevens and offering semi decent money for Baldock. jags will be phased out and potentially retire. Norwood similar someone will take a punt or we might keep him as a squad option Lundstram will be gone. Billy in all likelihood will stay but McGoldrick may not as again he’s worth a punt to a championship side their wages after relegation clauses will by no means be beyond the means of champ sides.
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I think my point was, which I completely forgot to make, that Norwich used the money they earned to change things, Bournemouth already had the players at the club. We're likely to have neither. Baldock and Stevens will be on more money than most defenders in the Championship. I can't see anyone matching their wages or either player wanting to go. Lunny, Jags, Moore?, Rodwell, all leave but for £0. We'll still have 5 strikers on the books. One is injury prone and not fit enough to play 60 minutes. Two will have more than 70 years between them and both past their best. We're stuck with this strikeforce. Look at the Championship table. It's incredibly close with 6 or 8 teams all in it. We are going to have very little money to strengthen and still have Norwood and Fleck on the books in midfield.
 



MoSF94 said:
I don't think a period of poor performances demonstrates that the manager can't get the players to perform well again in the (nearer the better) future; and I'm also not remotely convinced there's any manager available to us who would get substantially more out of the players, or safeguard the future of the club better than Wilder
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The hard questions are, if he gets us back up (a massive if) what is he going to do differently? And why can’t/hasn’t he done those things this season? In his interviews, he’s barely accepting fault with anything outside of individual errors. How can he be tasked with solving a problem he seems unable to acknowledge (in the main) exists?
 
robbiez666 said:
I think my point was, which I completely forgot to make, that Norwich used the money they earned to change things, Bournemouth already had the players at the club. We're likely to have neither. Baldock and Stevens will be on more money than most defenders in the Championship. I can't see anyone matching their wages or either player wanting to go. Lunny, Jags, Moore?, Rodwell, all leave but for £0. We'll still have 5 strikers on the books. One is injury prone and not fit enough to play 60 minutes. Two will have more than 70 years between them and both past their best. We're stuck with this strikeforce. Look at the Championship table. It's incredibly close with 6 or 8 teams all in it. We are going to have very little money to strengthen and still have Norwood and Fleck on the books in midfield.
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Yeah I get you on the reinvestment front and the generation of funds through sales. I think where we differ is I have a higher opinion of our recruitment this summer especially in the division below. Which is fine it is all about opinions. I think you can find an effective 2 out of McBurnie Mousset and Brewster in the champ not only because of their own records in that division but also because of what players like solanke look like this year after being very poor last year. I also think our recruitment in the champ was very good and have faith we’d manage to find players in midfield and defence that we could improve this staff has done it before. I don’t expect we’d go out and spend tens of millions on every position but maybe Egan type money and we’ve shown in the past you can get a good player at that level for that money especially if we don’t have to recruit a standout striker as that’s what costs the big money.
 
Yogi said:
Yeah I get you on the reinvestment front and the generation of funds through sales. I think where we differ is I have a higher opinion of our recruitment this summer especially in the division below. Which is fine it is all about opinions. I think you can find an effective 2 out of McBurnie Mousset and Brewster in the champ not only because of their own records in that division but also because of what players like solanke look like this year after being very poor last year. I also think our recruitment in the champ was very good and have faith we’d manage to find players in midfield and defence that we could improve this staff has done it before. I don’t expect we’d go out and spend tens of millions on every position but maybe Egan type money and we’ve shown in the past you can get a good player at that level for that money especially if we don’t have to recruit a standout striker as that’s what costs the big money.
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I do think our recruitment is pretty decent for the longterm but I think we're lacking in just too many areas. I think Brewster, if he continues to be on the bench, will put in a transfer request. He has zero reason to be loyal and if it carries on like it is probably will want to be anywhere else!

McBurnie's a very good Championship striker but Mousset is a liability. Can't play a full game, always picking up injuries. I suspect, if he manages to stay fit, he'll be back off to France for a cut-price deal.

I think both Sharp and McGoldrick have gone, especially in terms of starting games. Burke is clearly a winger and I still don't understand that piece of business.

Midfield is the obvious weakness. If Berge goes and Lunny goes then there's Norwood and Fleck, and both look done, especially the former.

I'm not convinced Lowe is good enough to replace Stevens. Bogle and Baldock, fine. We need to do something about replacing Bash. Then, we don't know how JoC will come back from a serious injury. I think we're likely 5 or 6 shy of a promotion team.
 
robbiez666 said:
I do think our recruitment is pretty decent for the longterm but I think we're lacking in just too many areas. I think Brewster, if he continues to be on the bench, will put in a transfer request. He has zero reason to be loyal and if it carries on like it is probably will want to be anywhere else!

McBurnie's a very good Championship striker but Mousset is a liability. Can't play a full game, always picking up injuries. I suspect, if he manages to stay fit, he'll be back off to France for a cut-price deal.

I think both Sharp and McGoldrick have gone, especially in terms of starting games. Burke is clearly a winger and I still don't understand that piece of business.

Midfield is the obvious weakness. If Berge goes and Lunny goes then there's Norwood and Fleck, and both look done, especially the former.

I'm not convinced Lowe is good enough to replace Stevens. Bogle and Baldock, fine. We need to do something about replacing Bash. Then, we don't know how JoC will come back from a serious injury. I think we're likely 5 or 6 shy of a promotion team.
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I’d agree it’s 5-6 players short I think Brewster will stay as it’s unlikely a prem team will pay what we’d want if he doesn’t score double figures which doesn’t look likely right now if we drop in the manner that it looks like we will then he’ll need that season in the champ to rebuild his reputation.

In terms of left back yeah RND is the one I’ve got pegged as the starter there with Lowe as the bench/cover option. I’d agree a LCB being brought in to help O’Connell maybe Davies if a deal can be done in jan if not then maybe someone like Clarke salter I’d have said the lad that went to Swansea from Man City this summer but obviously he’s gone but there will be others who will be available from the fringe of prem clubs. Basham’s long term successor is the one that worries me most. ideally I’d have liked to see that player come in this summer so we could mould them I don’t know whether someone like kyron Gordon might get a chance in the champ. Midfield I think we’ll see coulibally unless a very large offer comes in for him in the summer but I’ve no idea what the solution might be at CDM.
 
Yogi said:
I’d agree it’s 5-6 players short I think Brewster will stay as it’s unlikely a prem team will pay what we’d want if he doesn’t score double figures which doesn’t look likely right now if we drop in the manner that it looks like we will then he’ll need that season in the champ to rebuild his reputation.

In terms of left back yeah RND is the one I’ve got pegged as the starter there with Lowe as the bench/cover option. I’d agree a LCB being brought in to help O’Connell maybe Davies if a deal can be done in jan if not then maybe someone like Clarke salter I’d have said the lad that went to Swansea from Man City this summer but obviously he’s gone but there will be others who will be available from the fringe of prem clubs. Basham’s long term successor is the one that worries me most. ideally I’d have liked to see that player come in this summer so we could mould them I don’t know whether someone like kyron Gordon might get a chance in the champ. Midfield I think we’ll see coulibally unless a very large offer comes in for him in the summer but I’ve no idea what the solution might be at CDM.
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No chance we're seeing Coulibaly for at least a couple of years. Not getting a work permit.
 
robbiez666 said:
No chance we're seeing Coulibaly for at least a couple of years. Not getting a work permit.
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If he gets an international call up can we not make the case he’s an exceptional talent on appeal? I know the brexit will throw the work permit situation up in the air. Failing that I’ve seen whiteman muted on another thread which would be cost effective for us then I dunno maybe a Ryan ledson or a Han noah massengo at Bristol (if they don’t go up) was quite a coup when they brought him in from Monaco.
 
Yogi said:
If he gets an international call up can we not make the case he’s an exceptional talent on appeal? I know the brexit will throw the work permit situation up in the air. Failing that I’ve seen whiteman muted on another thread which would be cost effective for us then I dunno maybe a Ryan ledson or a Han noah massengo at Bristol (if they don’t go up) was quite a coup when they brought him in from Monaco.
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no chance. Mali are too low down. He'd need to play a lot of international games for them to get a WP for the football league.

I'd like to see Jed Wallace in. 26. Millwall aren't exactly a big club or likely to be paying high wages. Give us that fight we need.

Regardless, we desperately need to sort our scouting out. We're going nowhere fast if our recruitment is basically British only. We've spend 100 million on mainly Championship players.
 
We are in a very difficult situation here. Yes we are without question going to get relegated. But every single Blades knows who the best manager is to bring us back up. Unfortunately we also can’t carry on playing like this and continue to shield CW and AK from blame.
 
We'll go down with a new manager

Best chance of coming back up is Wilder.

We've overachieved massively for 4 seasons with a team of League One Bosmans because of Wilder. Unfortunately the "dip" happens to be at a bad time.

I want Wilder to stay, not only because I think he's the best manager we've ever had, but he's also a top person.

A new manager now will probably preceed a predictable nose dive to the lower resches of the Championship with a wage bill that needs managing down
 
derekacorah said:
If people haven’t accepted relegation by now then they must have been watching something different to me for the first 11 games. We are dire, no manager is going to polish this turd I’m afraid.
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You can't help some people. I'd bite your hand off at 20 points. I'm a couple more games away from "I'd bite your hand off for 12 points"

To just get to 30 points we need 7 wins and 8 draws from 26 games 😂😂
 



I can't see it happening but we need to start planning for next season in The Championship NOW.

By that I mean getting a settled team regardless of results, sticking with them so they gel and getting back to our attacking style again regardless of results so that we aren't completely shot when we go down.

Norwich's last 10 games were woeful from a stats perspective but Farke never changed his philosophy of going gung ho so when they were relegated it was much easier to get back to winning ways, as performances didn't match results, in the division below.

I'd probably go with something like this:

Rambo

Bash
Egan
Bryan (not ideal but he'll be off anyway at end of season and JOC will be back)

Baldock (if he's likely to move on then Bogle)
New Signing (sell Berge and use money to sign his replacement)
Fleck
Stevens (with a view to RND replacing him next season)

Freeman (recalled)

McBurnie
Brewster
 
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