Keeping Wilder means accepting relegation

[flashinblade1889]

Ffs stop starting threads with the same message you utter fking bore merchant

Use the ignore button bud....

 

[Barney]

I’m saying it. I’m calling it.

Wilder should be sacked or come to a mutual decision to step down.

The main three justifications:

• Consistently wrong transfer business at Premier League level. These are not £500k’s we’re dealing with anymore, we are now talking hundreds of millions given to him in good faith with no tangible improvement to show for it. Not taking up the option of re-loaning Besic and allowing our only creative midfielder to go out on loan to Nottingham Forest were other really poor judgement calls. If that wasn’t enough, not bringing in a creative midfielder when it was clear to just about everybody that this was crucial. So it’s not just the players he signs that he gets wrong, it is the positions he chooses not to sign players for, and also the outgoings. It’s failure on all fronts. If it hasn’t already (and I think it has) this will put the club in a huge financial mess.

• Inability and refusal to plan for an introduction of a plan B when things go wrong. Horrid stubbornness.

• The above two points will probably lead to a single digit points tally. Someone else coming in may just give us enough of a refresh to make it a non-embarrassing relegation and set the scene for a promotion next season.

We can’t carry on with this wretched losing mentality. 1 point in 12 games, and that’s not including the end of last season obviously. We can no longer use sentiment in the position we’re in. We’re a football club and no man is above the club and its best interests.

But there does not have to be any anger towards Wilder. He will still go down in history for getting us to the Premier league from League one, but he is currently adding a tarnish to that status. We cannot pretend that he is the man to keep us at that level when everything is suggesting that he is not. We’re no longer in underdog, build, climb-the-leagues mode. The premier league is not his bread and butter. For us to be back at this level and stay within the next few seasons, it’s time for that honest and respectful mutual realisation between him and the club.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Hi Stegosaurus here

I don't know. I think last season's performance deluded the fans, Wilder and the players into thinking they were premier league level when many of them clearly aren't and that has led to a lack of effort, lack of hunger and lack of desire. The team seemed to have grew complacent and Wilder grew complacent--which is why he signed for depth rather than improve the first team in the summer.

It may have been better for us to have finished 4th from the bottom last season.

Hi Steggers.
The lousy form began after lockdown.
Why was our resumption so bad?

 

[nopigfansintown]

Well we better just all lay down and just accept relegation before Christmas. Just like today’s narrow defeat? Never in it. Who is it that makes the decision to sign players based on tactical play? Short sighted.

We're going down. It's time to man up and accept the inevitable. We're a "system team" of players with below average technical ability that massively overachieved due to said formation, superior fitness and tactics. A possible criticism of Wilder is not bringing in more bespoke pieces in case of injuries; particularly replacements for Basham and O'Connell, but that is extremely difficult for obvious reasons. There isn't one centre half bar Egan that can play in a back four. If you think there is, and we should fundamentally change our style; I'm sorry, you're delusional. I thought we were down when O'Connell got injured and we didn't bring in a replacement.

 

[Yogi]

We're going down. It's time to man up and accept the inevitable. We're a "system team" of players with below average technical ability that massively overachieved due to said formation, superior fitness and tactics. A possible criticism of Wilder is not bringing in more bespoke pieces in case of injuries; particularly replacements for Basham and O'Connell, but that is extremely difficult for obvious reasons. There isn't one centre half bar Egan that can play in a back four. If you think there is, and we should fundamentally change our style; I'm sorry, you're delusional. I thought we were down when O'Connell got injured and we didn't bring in a replacement.

I completely agree with all your points. What also worth noticing is the wilder has repeatedly talked about spurs and how they train and the amount of work they do during our rise through the leagues but what spurs found and ultimately we’re finding is when you ask a group of players to work that hard and run those distances in game for a prolonged period of time they eventually hit a wall in terms of not having the reserves to go too in the well anymore and I think a lot of our players have reached that point.

 

[Mercedes]

One thing people always say about Sam Allardyce is that their teams have fight and are well drilled.

I doubt if he was our manager from the start of the season we would have one point from 11 games.

OMG Sam Allardyce are you sure what Chris Wilder has done for our club is nothing short of a miracle yes this is a bad season but this is when the manager needs our support like when he first came in we needed him there are three kind of managers builders,spenders and firefighters Allardyce comes under the spenders category be careful what you wish for

 

[Kev Gee]

I don't know how you could determine we would be better without any idea who would be next or even the calibre of candidates.

We couldn't be any worse tbh. Well we could be on 0 points not 1.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I completely agree with all your points. What also worth noticing is the wilder has repeatedly talked about spurs and how they train and the amount of work they do during our rise through the leagues but what spurs found and ultimately we’re finding is when you ask a group of players to work that hard and run those distances in game for a prolonged period of time they eventually hit a wall in terms of not having the reserves to go too in the well anymore and I think a lot of our players have reached that point.

I think the whole lockdown has fucked our fitness levels. We've never looked the same since lockdown. Our pressing patterns are all over the shop.

 

[FMBlade1]

We couldn't be any worse tbh. Well we could be on 0 points not 1.

Nah we would still be on 1 point no matter, nothing was going to stop Mitrovich

 

[Yogi]

I think the whole lockdown has fucked our fitness levels. We've never looked the same since lockdown. Our pressing patterns are all over the shop.

I’d agree but for the older players it’s understandable as they get older their recovery times will increase and effectively their bodies will have gone into off season mode when the league was shut down I know they were training at home and on exercise bikes but it’s not the same. They then effectively came back cold and probably emptied the tank those games after lockdown as getting to Europe would’ve been the crowing achievement of their careers And then with a truncated preseason they probably haven’t properly recovered.

 

[BladeInIreland]

I did, and I disagree that they’re certain to take us straight back up again after a record-breakingly poor season. They have to change tactically, instil belief in the players and put a decent run together, and I just can’t see that happening in either division. It’s not like the Championship is easy to get promoted from.

It wouldn't be certain, like you say a very difficult league. They were just the reasons I believe support why they would be the best managerial team to do it.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Forgetting the plethora of other issues we have, name me one successful side that won’t/can’t change formation? This is utterly embarrassing and CWAK are acting like rank amateurs in the elite league.

 

[BladeInIreland]

We couldn't be any worse tbh. Well we could be on 0 points not 1.

In the short term we could be worse by losing by more goals. Long term we could certainly be worse off.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

If we sack Wilder, we'll most likely do down anyway, and then spend another decade plus outside the PL. If we stick with Wilder, through his roughest patch, we'll give ourselves the best chance to go back up if/when we get relegated. I'd give Wilder to January 2022 minimum

I have to ask, what would be the point if this is the level of performance they put in?

 

[Pedro Verde]

This team is no where near as good as the one that come up.

Its more or less the same players FFS (Berge Ramsdale McBurnie apart)
Thats why we are in this mess

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Hi Steggers.
The lousy form began after lockdown.
Why was our resumption so bad?

I’d argue we were playing with fine margins before lockdown too..,

 

[georgebernardshaw]

That's the millions dollars question. I'll admit I don't have the answer, I don't work in recruitment. We'd get hundreds of applications, who had heard of Southampton's manager when he got the job?

Someone in the club should be able to make an informed decision.

So you start a thread that raises an obvious question for which you have no answer.

Fucking brilliant

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

This guy is available!

Borussia Dortmund sack Lucien Favre as manager

Borussia Dortmund sack Lucien Favre as manager in the wake of the 5-1 thrashing by Stuttgart.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[HeySethUTB]

We're going down. It's time to man up and accept the inevitable. We're a "system team" of players with below average technical ability that massively overachieved due to said formation, superior fitness and tactics. A possible criticism of Wilder is not bringing in more bespoke pieces in case of injuries; particularly replacements for Basham and O'Connell, but that is extremely difficult for obvious reasons. There isn't one centre half bar Egan that can play in a back four. If you think there is, and we should fundamentally change our style; I'm sorry, you're delusional. I thought we were down when O'Connell got injured and we didn't bring in a replacement.

Man up and lay down dying? The metaphorical double negative aside. I agree that we haven’t got world beating players and that the system is what makes us different. But fitter than other teams absolute myth and to create a team to only tactically play one way is delusional.

Regarding JOC, with that foresight maybe you should have given the club a ring to warn them. But then again much like your opinion of our current situation I suppose there’s no point trying.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So you start a thread that raises an obvious question for which you have no answer.

Fucking brilliant

With the obligatory “but” just in case he needs to backtrack later.

 

[Killamarshblades]

Forgetting the plethora of other issues we have, name me one successful side that won’t/can’t change formation? This is utterly embarrassing and CWAK are acting like rank amateurs in the elite league.

We played 4-4-2 second half til Basham went off. 4-3-3 after that.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Its more or less the same players FFS (Berge Ramsdale McBurnie apart)
Thats why we are in this mess

Agreed, no better nor as good as the one that came up.

 

[Guesty]

We’re 6 points away from safety, plenty to play for. We don’t have the players at the moment to play last years system, so either change the system, or change the manager.

At the current rate of accumulation, it'll take us 73 games to get to six points.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Man up and lay down dying? The metaphorical double negative aside. I agree that we haven’t got world beating players and that the system is what makes us different. But fitter than other teams absolute myth and to create a team to only tactically play one way is delusional.

Regarding JOC, with that foresight maybe you should have given the club a ring to warn them. But then again much like your opinion of our current situation I suppose there’s no point trying.

Who mentioned laying down dying, except you? I think the effort has been there in most games but not the quality. Simple as that. If that carries on relegation is an inevitability. You can't win with a losing hand. I don't see a way out of this mess regardless of system or managerial changes. January could change things if we get the right players in and aren't too far adrift, but they're big ifs. The fitness claim I made was borne out in the stats last season and was pretty obvious to the naked eye imo.
I was calling for a left footed centre back that could both cover O'Connell and prove adequate in a back four for the last three years. As well as centre mid in the Ndidi, Kante mould so we could fundamentally change the midfield/defensive shape without getting destroyed defensively. I agree on that point; but we don't have them do we?
Where I disagree with some posters is I see most of the signings in other positions that we made as necessary too. We needed a striker, right/WB (needed for two years), GK etc. We could have done without Lowe and gone with Stevens/Osborn.

 

[FMBlade1]

With the obligatory “but” just in case he needs to backtrack later.

What's your opinion then?

 

[Le Cynique]

So you start a thread that raises an obvious question for which you have no answer.

Fucking brilliant

This is such a false argument. The Ford Pinto was a terrible car; I can say that objectively. Would I know how to make it better? No, because I’m not an expert. Doesn’t stop me knowing that it was dogshit though.

 

[Harry's Game]

We are down now whatever.

The discussion should be is Chris Wilder the right man to attempt to bring us back up? If the season was ending now I would say yes, but with another 26 games to come and most likely it is looking like the majority of them will be defeats I am starting to worry how far the morale will have nose dived before our Championship campaign starts in August.

There is a good chance that we are going to break Derby’s low points record the way things are going and it’s arguable Derby as a club still hasn’t recovered from that experience.

I am now on the fence whether Wilder should remain in post. Possibly we should look towards an interim manager from now until the end of the season and then reassess in May?

So so sad that it is ending this way.

 

[Yogi]

Who mentioned laying down dying, except you? I think the effort has been there in most games but not the quality. Simple as that. If that carries on relegation is an inevitability. You can't win with a losing hand. I don't see a way out of this mess regardless of system or managerial changes. January could change things if we get the right players in and aren't too far adrift, but they're big ifs. The fitness claim I made was borne out in the stats last season and was pretty obvious to the naked eye imo.
I was calling for a left footed centre back that could both cover O'Connell and prove adequate in a back four for the last three years. As well as centre mid in the Ndidi, Kante mould so we could fundamentally change the midfield/defensive shape without getting destroyed defensively. I agree on that point; but we don't have them do we?
Where I disagree with some posters is I see most of the signings in other positions that we made as necessary too. We needed a striker, right/WB (needed for two years), GK etc. We could have done without Lowe and gone with Stevens/Osborn.

Agreed we signed this summer in positions of glaring need only to start the season and have previously solid players fall apart. I still don’t think we’ve recruited badly and it isn’t the new players causing the issue but rather the old players falling off a cliff. I’ve said on other threads we’re effectively now halfway through a rebuild and it really shows.

 

[Kev Gee]

I think we can accept we are down if CW stays. It's all about performances and fight for me though. And the complete lack of this has convinced me that Wilder is done here. HRH Abdullah, it's time to act.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

I think that much is evident. He won't change the system no matter what, can't seem to get anything (or enough) out of the players he has, and can't recruit well for the PL (similar to Warnock).

There's no shame in that, it is a difficult job and before last season I said how I feared a bloodbath and delightfully I was proven wrong. Though that is last season we need to think here and now.

There are two approaches we can take:

a) Accept relegation and that Wilder is the one to get us back up. Like Farke, Dyche. However this is a bit different as this is a national humiliation and will be difficult to recover from.

b) Make a change. Holloway resigned from Crystal Palace and they stayed up as he realized he wasn't up to it, Crystal Palace also sacked De Boer after a similar run of form, and stayed up.

Ranieri is the best example I can think of that relates to our situation. A club legend for Leicester for obvious reasons, however he was taking them to the second division in his next season before the board intervened.

---

If we want to stay up I find it difficult to believe that Wilder is the one to achieve it. However that doesn't mean sacking him is necessarily right for the club.

With that said the board should be considering things carefully, and the mantra of 'not sacking him no matter what' has to be rejected out of hand.

Hope this thread bites me at the end of the match...

The concern for me is that CW and the players will be so damaged mentally by this season (assuming we go down, with something like lower than 10 points) then next season we will struggle again. A losing culture is hard to change once it gets embedded.

Some big decisions for the Prince.