John street/shoreham street

[More Bladier than thou]

Does anybody know if the club or Mcabe own any of the houses around the ground ? I remember reading a few years ago that the club want to buy them up with a view to ground expansion. Owning the property's, especially on john street would mean less opposition when/if they rebuild as there’s not much room on john street. Anybody know anything?

 

[Kenilworth]

You looking for a squat?

 

[Isar]

Does anybody know if the club or Mcabe own any of the houses around the ground ? I remember reading a few years ago that the club want to buy them up with a view to ground expansion. Owning the property's, especially on john street would mean less opposition when/if they rebuild as there’s not much room on john street. Anybody know anything?

You could probably find the answers on the Government Land Registry site. When we go house hunting this was always a useful tool.

 

[vorpal blade]

I remember reading a few years ago that the club want to buy them up with a view to ground expansion.

I don't think so, I suggested to McDonald and McCabe in a meeting in 1996 that they should buy them - but I'd be surprised if they did...... the presence of those houses on John Street limits the height of the Stand that can be built ..... but if u see my previous "contributions", the John Street stand CAN be built higher if it is moved towards the South, AND, if you shove the pitch towards the South Stand, you get a lot more room to build a new John Street Stand higher .....

 

[SHOREHAMST.com]

I know for a fact they own Chaucer Yard and I've a feeling there's a lot more as well.

 

[WeHateWednesday]

Even if they did own the properties, Sheffield council wouldn't let them do anything that makes BDTBL any better than Swillsborough than it already is.....that would be forward thinking for the city!

 

[vorpal blade]

I know for a fact they own Chaucer Yard and I've a feeling there's a lot more as well.

if they have start land-banking it's good news

 

[Ricky]

It's a real shame they didn't build the John Street stand closer to the pitch. There's a big gap from the front row.

It could be considerably bigger than it is with a second tier above the boxes. It would really complete the stadium (after the Kop's sorted).

 

[boo radley]

It's a real shame they didn't build the John Street stand closer to the pitch. There's a big gap from the front row.

It could be considerably bigger than it is with a second tier above the boxes. It would really complete the stadium (after the Kop's sorted).

Show us your plans

 

[stringjunior]

It's a real shame they didn't build the John Street stand closer to the pitch. There's a big gap from the front row.

It could be considerably bigger than it is with a second tier above the boxes. It would really complete the stadium (after the Kop's sorted).

I seem to remember hearing that the foundations had been dug so it could take an additional tier. Probably a myth/wishful thinking.

 

[Ron_Justice]

Funnily enough, l was taking to the old man about this on Saturday, specifically buying up the John Street houses, closing the road and rebuilding John Street to mirror, almost, the South Stand. That then took the conversation on to what would happen to the Away end / Bramall lane upper. That stand has a pretty thin footprint too and its proximity to the road made me wonder, if it did happen (rebuilding the away end etc) would the council ever go for diverting/closing Bramall Lane? It's not a major an artery - single lane carriageway - but it is does provide a decent link to the inner ring road. Perhaps a cantilevered option would be best, hanging out, over Bramall Lane :

 

[Keen Blade]

Fuck ground development - try and sell the 5000 empty seats at every home game before you start spending money anywhere but on the team.

 

[S64 Blade]

...That stand has a pretty thin footprint too and its proximity to the road made me wonder, if it did happen (rebuilding the away end etc) would the council ever go for diverting/closing Bramall Lane? It's not a major an artery - single lane carriageway - but it is does provide a decent link to the inner ring road. Perhaps a cantilevered option would be best, hanging out, over Bramall Lane :

You might not think it is, but it is an important road and one which is earmarked for widening to help relieve traffic flow south of the city centre (hence why all the new builds near the roundabout are set back from the road, so I can't see them going for it.

There's better options first for expansion.

 

[vorpal blade]

the above policy having blighted development along the other side of Bramall Lane for at least 40 years.

That bit of Sheffield has been mauled by the presence of the ring road between the Station and the University, I don't know a city with more bollarded and blocked old roads.

Its about time the council admitted it doesn't have a viable transport plan - and - allowed building again on those perpetually empty plots along Bramall Lane.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I don't think so, I suggested to McDonald and McCabe in a meeting in 1996 that they should buy them - but I'd be surprised if they did...... the presence of those houses on John Street limits the height of the Stand that can be built ..... but if u see my previous "contributions", the John Street stand CAN be built higher if it is moved towards the South, AND, if you shove the pitch towards the South Stand, you get a lot more room to build a new John Street Stand higher .....

Then build it dear Vorpal, dear Vorpal, dear Vorpal,
Then build it dear Vorpal, dear Vorpal build it!

We're going to need over 40,000 capacity very soon.

 

[vorpal blade]

I got elbowed off * the job by a practice THEN, friendly with Kevin in 1997.

Said practice showed it's mettle with their childish attempts at designing the substandard corner stand between John St. & the Kop.

There are outstanding practices with whom I have close links who specialise in beautiful stadiums, London Olympic Velodrome (you could find out who I mean), Lords, etc. etc. but Kevin doesn't have connections with them, I do think there are some deficiencies with the latest proposals that could fairly easily be sorted out, but there are VERY different standards of design and approach from one practice to another*.


The practices that have the cheapest fees up front are generally those that won't put enough time into design, sadly, they tend to be the Northern practices, the profession is about 90% London based ..... but they are the best.


*architects ALL think they are very good at design † and ALL stab each other in the back to get work.

† most are limited

 

[bladesmanluke]

I think the Kop and South stand extensions are all that we need in honesty. With sustained premier league football, I think we will be looking at 40k+ plus attendances for the big games and with success at that level, probably fill it most weeks. If you put another tier on top of John street and then also extend the Bramall Lane end, you’re looking at almost 60k capacity. I don’t think we’ll ever need that.

 

[vorpal blade]

I broadly agree with you Luke - though it must be said, back in 1996, I think the feeling was that 25 000 capacity grounds would do for clubs like us ..... Wolves for instance, wholly rebuilt Molineux to that capacity ..... they were pessimistic times.

I also think that one of the problems with building the South Stand higher is that you tend towards the unbalanced sort of stadium that for instance Elland Road has become .... one dominant 2 tier stand and if you are sitting in it, all you can see of the rest of the ground is the tops of the rooves of the other sides, you don't feel part of the crowd .... I've experienced this at Old Trafford.

I think it might be smarter to enlarge the John St. first but because it is a recently constructed stand, there is possibly a reluctance to want to do this.

I'm absolutely sure btw. that the South Stand was built so far away from the pitch to allow for a twin stand to be built on the John St. side of a pitch shifted southwards ... but sensible masterplans are nearly always forgot in the name of short term exingency, it is PRE Kevin McCabe and the John Street stand was a cheap design and build job, I believe everyone knew it could have been better designed but a contract had been signed (by the previous owners) and that contract was honoured.

 

[bladesmanluke]

If it wasn’t for how dilapidated the exterior of the current south stand is, i’d rather we extended John Street, but it doesn’t look good. I’m actually a fan of the lopsided look. Give me that over a boring bowl like pride park or the madejski any day.

 

[More Bladier than thou]

John street and away end remind me of those subbuteo stands, small and a bit crappy. Or some would say a bit quirky.

 

[JohnDenver]

I broadly agree with you Luke - though it must be said, back in 1996, I think the feeling was that 25 000 capacity grounds would do for clubs like us ..... Wolves for instance, wholly rebuilt Molineux to that capacity ..... they were pessimistic times.

I also think that one of the problems with building the South Stand higher is that you tend towards the unbalanced sort of stadium that for instance Elland Road has become .... one dominant 2 tier stand and if you are sitting in it, all you can see of the rest of the ground is the tops of the rooves of the other sides, you don't feel part of the crowd .... I've experienced this at Old Trafford.

I think it might be smarter to enlarge the John St. first but because it is a recently constructed stand, there is possibly a reluctance to want to do this.

I'm absolutely sure btw. that the South Stand was built so far away from the pitch to allow for a twin stand to be built on the John St. side of a pitch shifted southwards ... but sensible masterplans are nearly always forgot in the name of short term exingency, it is PRE Kevin McCabe and the John Street stand was a cheap design and build job, I believe everyone knew it could have been better designed but a contract had been signed (by the previous owners) and that contract was honoured.

Simon Inglis' book on English Football Grounds states the South Stand was set back to allow the JS to match it. Sadly that wasn't properly carried out by Brealey/McDonald.

Totally agree on Old Trafford. They call it the theatre of dreams but it has no sense of theatre if you're at the back of the large stands. It's dingy, and whilst you can see the pitch just fine, the heavy low roof line prevents you feeling that you're part of a vast crowd as you can't see the buggers opposite.

 

[Rodley]

Deal with the acquisition of all the additional properties
Stop up the road & divert with SCC
Divert the services and sewers in the roads and have an appropriate easement to them
Demolish & remediate the land
All for about 2000-3000 ish more seats

Makes no sense to me at all. Non-starter gents when the South Stand and Kop are a much easier proposition.

Generally though if ever got to the top flight, there’s no real value in extending the ground as all the money comes from TV anyway.

 

[Working Class Hero]

Deal with the acquisition of all the additional properties
Stop up the road & divert with SCC
Divert the services and sewers in the roads and have an appropriate easement to them
Demolish & remediate the land
All for about 2000-3000 ish more seats

Makes no sense to me at all. Non-starter gents when the South Stand and Kop are a much easier proposition.

Generally though if ever got to the top flight, there’s no real value in extending the ground as all the money comes from TV anyway.

None of that needs doing anyway, just get rid of the one or both levels of the executive suites and replace with seating. The executive areas can be replaced and more on the other side as there's a lot more room and we know the South Stand is earmarked for development anyway.

 

[S64 Blade]

If it wasn’t for how dilapidated the exterior of the current south stand is, i’d rather we extended John Street, but it doesn’t look good. I’m actually a fan of the lopsided look. Give me that over a boring bowl like pride park or the madejski any day.

The South Stand is a fine example of brutalist architecture. The club have ruined it with the new cladding they added, as it looks cheap. Should be quite easy to sort out though.

 

[super_pig]

Even if they did own the properties, Sheffield council wouldn't let them do anything that makes BDTBL any better than Swillsborough than it already is.....that would be forward thinking for the city!

they’re too late then!

 

[super_pig]

the above policy having blighted development along the other side of Bramall Lane for at least 40 years.

That bit of Sheffield has been mauled by the presence of the ring road between the Station and the University, I don't know a city with more bollarded and blocked old roads.

Its about time the council admitted it doesn't have a viable transport plan - and - allowed building again on those perpetually empty plots along Bramall Lane.

you mean the ‘2/3 of a ring road that blocks access to the city centre from the south’ .. don’t even get me started..

 

[snootyfenooty]

Before you re-develop anything you have to improve the infrastructure first, that's basic town planning. Therefore the first priority should be to widen Bramall Lane and build a tram track. Given the backward thinking of this Council, it's never going to happen, the ground capacity will only grow to a level the local infrastructure can support. Taking into consideration what United have planned and what the Chinese are in the process of doing, you would think they would be chomping at the bit to regenerate our City, but wherever United are concerned the Council just stick their heads up their arses to the City's detriment. Cunts.

 

[S64 Blade]

Before you re-develop anything you have to improve the infrastructure first, that's basic town planning. Therefore the first priority should be to widen Bramall Lane and build a tram track. Given the backward thinking of this Council, it's never going to happen, the ground capacity will only grow to a level the local infrastructure can support. Taking into consideration what United have planned and what the Chinese are in the process of doing, you would think they would be chomping at the bit to regenerate our City, but wherever United are concerned the Council just stick their heads up their arses to the City's detriment. Cunts.

To be fair, the council are wanting to extend the tram network, but the decision is largely out of their hands.

The SCR devolution deal would have helped have control over things such as this, but Doncaster and Barnsley didn't feel that they need to be part of Sheffield (despite most major infrastructure projects in each town being backed by the SCR fund).

Anyway, that's digressing a bit from the original topic

 

[Dkc]

None of that needs doing anyway, just get rid of the one or both levels of the executive suites and replace with seating. The executive areas can be replaced and more on the other side as there's a lot more room and we know the South Stand is earmarked for development anyway.

I often thought there'd be room for a good second tier on the JSS if we got rid of the executive facilties. We could even keep the lower row of exec boxes and build above them. The stand would look much more impressive but I doubt we'd gain more than 2000 seats tops, and we'd lose the top boxes that bring in income. We're currently forced to let about 2000 seats stand empty anyway, on police / safety committee orders, and its rare that we have a sell out. This may change in the PL.

Incidentally there are about 200 seats on the JSS upper at the moment, each box has two rows of ten I think, and there are ten boxes. When every seat outside the boxes is filled, the stand looks more impressive.

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

Funnily enough, l was taking to the old man about this on Saturday, specifically buying up the John Street houses, closing the road and rebuilding John Street to mirror, almost, the South Stand. That then took the conversation on to what would happen to the Away end / Bramall lane upper. That stand has a pretty thin footprint too and its proximity to the road made me wonder, if it did happen (rebuilding the away end etc) would the council ever go for diverting/closing Bramall Lane? It's not a major an artery - single lane carriageway - but it is does provide a decent link to the inner ring road. Perhaps a cantilevered option would be best, hanging out, over Bramall Lane :

Our recent opponents, Ipswich have done something similar. Their Chrchman's stand projects out over the street and they had to purchase an opposite row of terraced houses in order to get planning permissions (their academy players lodge in them now).