JOC and Egan.

[nopigfansintown]

Anybody else think they got bullied for the first time in a United shirt yesterday? The Bristol number nine was tremendous: he held the ball up, ran the channels and got Bristol City up the pitch relieving the spells of pressure we had. I can't remember Egan ever getting dominated so comprehensively. It was absolutely pivotal to their win yesterday. On the other hand we played our away system (probably due to injuries) that relies on a similar player; but the ball kept coming back negating the counter attacking threat we've seen in other games.

 

[sitwell]

My own view is that Norwood played too deep which negated his influence and he got in the way of the centre backs. My favourite player but he had a mare yesterday. Shit happens.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Absolute.

Fucking.

Nonsense.

Getting good at it .

UTB

 

[wizadry]

I wouldn’t say they got bullied but I would agree that their number 9 caused us a lot of problems, as did their number 3 on the left hand side, partly down to us playing too deep and sitting off them, giving them too much time on the ball.

 

[mattbianco1]

Dierdou was fantastic. Unplayable at times. Little unorthodox in how he plays but thought he was great.

 

[Guesty]

My own view is that Norwood played too deep which negated his influence and he got in the way of the centre backs. My favourite player but he had a mare yesterday. Shit happens.

It's happened before, he gets forced deeper and plays badly *or* if he's playing badly he drops deeper to find more space, I'm not sure which. Birmingham was the prime example, he was practically picking the ball up on his own penalty spot.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Absolute.

Fucking.

Nonsense.

Getting good at it .

UTB

So offer a counterpoint. It's a bit too easy to insult people or their point of view without offering an alternate point of view. Getting good at it, as they say...

 

[Ridgeway Blade]

You have to credit Bristol I think. They pushed their back line pretty high so that we had to start building from deeper than normal and this is why Norwood was alongside Egan. The midfield area was compacted giving the players too little time to really get hold of the ball and play as usual. Even late on we were trying to play right from the back and it didn't really work. The end result was we tried to play some long balls over the top to Sharp and Hogan. I thought City may run out of steam but they didn't!

 

[Fulwood Blade]

You have to credit Bristol I think

Agree - just remove the "I think" - Bristol played us well yesterday.

No need to sulk with this - we move on to Preston & Birmingham - as do Leeds.

By the time we both finish these games it could all have changed around again - or not !

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

My own view is that Norwood played too deep which negated his influence and he got in the way of the centre backs. My favourite player but he had a mare yesterday. Shit happens.

They stood a man on him all game. The pigs and some other clubs have done the same. The rationale is to stop us playing out through him, which in turn keeps the wide centre backs from overlapping as effectively (as the emphasis is on them to build the attacks from deep in our half) . Norwood often slips in to the wide centre back roles in our half when teams don't do this, then the wide centreback on one side makes the overlap.

 

[wizadry]

They stood a man on him all game. The pigs and some other clubs have done the same. The rationale is to stop us playing out through him, which in turn keeps the wide centre backs from overlapping as effectively (as the emphasis is on them to build the attacks from deep in our half) . Norwood often slips in to the wide centre back roles in our half when teams don't do this, then the wide centreback on one side makes the overlap.

This goes a long way to explaining why Basham was playing anywhere he wanted to. It was strange to see us alter our shape to accommodate another side when something has served us so well all season.

The moment Norwood drops deeper the more Hollywood balls he tries, they’re hard to do and a lot don’t come off so it makes him look poor at times.

I don’t know how many times I have to say this but the only way we can win games of football and look very good at the same time is to play our slick passing game and get at teams, Bristol City couldn’t cope with us for that 15 minute spell before our second goal but we sat back once again after it and look what happened.

I disagree with Wilder that we have to play very well to win games, we haven’t played that well in games recently and won, what we have to do is play our natural game and not overthink things.

 

[DronnieBlade]

So offer a counterpoint. It's a bit too easy to insult people or their point of view without offering an alternate point of view. Getting good at it, as they say...

My counterpoint to your original point is that, bluntly, its nonsense.

Not factually correct.

Inaccurate.

Hope this helps.

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

My counterpoint to your original point is that, bluntly, its nonsense.

Not factually correct.

Inaccurate.

Hope this helps.

UTB

That's not a counterpoint. A counterpoint would be to say why you thought it was nonsense. If you can't be respectful please avoid commenting on my posts or threads in future. Thank you.

 

[DronnieBlade]

That's not a counterpoint. A counterpoint would be to say why you thought it was nonsense. If you can't be respectful please avoid commenting on my posts or threads in future. Thank you.

Then do try to understand that football is not a game of who bullies best wins.

Bit more to it mate !!

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

This goes a long way to explaining why Basham was playing anywhere he wanted to. It was strange to see us alter our shape to accommodate another side when something has served us so well all season.

The moment Norwood drops deeper the more Hollywood balls he tries, they’re hard to do and a lot don’t come off so it makes him look poor at times.

I don’t know how many times I have to say this but the only way we can win games of football and look very good at the same time is to play our slick passing game and get at teams, Bristol City couldn’t cope with us for that 15 minute spell before our second goal but we sat back once again after it and look what happened.

I disagree with Wilder that we have to play very well to win games, we haven’t played that well in games recently and won, what we have to do is play our natural game and not overthink things.

It's exacerbated when we aren't pressing teams, like 70 minutes of the game yesterday. When we win the ball high the turnover of possession (even if our move breaks down) releases Norwood and in turn the wide centre backs. If you're counter attacking and Norwood is man marked you never reach the point that he has time on the ball. To sum it up: one way of negating the man marker, is winning the ball high up the pitch. We did it for a small period yesterday and got the second goal.

 

[wizadry]

It's exacerbated when we aren't pressing teams, like 70 minutes of the game yesterday. When we win the ball high the turnover of possession (even if our move breaks down) releases Norwood and in turn the wide centre backs. If you're counter attacking and Norwood is man marked you never reach the point that he has time on the ball. To sum it up: one way of negating the man marker, is winning the ball high up the pitch. We did it for a small period yesterday and got the second goal.

Spot on.

For most of the game we looke like a team that had been on a session then ended up in city sauna Friday neyt.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Then do try to understand that football is not a game of who bullies best wins.

Bit more to it mate !!

UTB

I've never once said that. My analysis is strictly based on the technical and tactical qualities required to win a game of football.Anything that furthers that debate is apposite. Just saying "you talk shit" - in a round about way - doesn't do that. On the other hand a debate can be furthered by saying "in my opinion your arguing black is white, here's why"...

 

[DronnieBlade]

I've never once said that. My analysis is strictly based on the technical and tactical qualities required to win a game of football.Anything that furthers that debate is apposite. Just saying "you talk shit" - in a round about way - doesn't do that. On the other hand a debate can be furthered by saying "in my opinion your arguing black is white here's why"...

Guilty by inference ???

Maybe I’m wrong, but do a not insignificant number of your posts focus on physical, rather than technical stuff ?

Maybe I’m wrong.

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

Guilty by inference ???

Maybe I’m wrong, but do a not insignificant number of your posts focus on physical, rather than technical stuff ?

Maybe I’m wrong.

UTB

They focus on tactical stuff for the most part.I'm not an idealogue; I'm interested in the tactical style and why it works or doesn't work. David Weir was an ideologue playing the ball across his back four to Matt Hill and Neill Collins; looking for Michael Doyle to pick the probing passes through the opponent's back line. My favourite style of football is the press and counter press style; but I'm more interested in winning if we don't have the personel to pull of this style and get promoted. Our promotion team played this style consistently - it was brilliant and, imo, a lot more entertaining than this season's games. A team capable of performing my favourite style wouldn't have Gary Madine in it, but we're simply not good enough to do it consistently away from home and gain automatic promotion (the results spoke for themselves). Footballers are just tools imo. To set up in opposition to an opponents style or to accentuate your style. Horses for courses as it were. I hope that's dispelled a few myths.
For the avoidance of doubt: I've got no truck with people telling me my analysis is shit (I'm not precious, and you can be as blunt as that) but I'd like them to tell me WHY they think it's shit, and what their own analysis is. It's easy being a critic.

 

[Kenilworth]

Anybody else think they got bullied for the first time in a United shirt yesterday? The Bristol number nine was tremendous: he held the ball up, ran the channels and got Bristol City up the pitch relieving the spells of pressure we had. I can't remember Egan ever getting dominated so comprehensively. It was absolutely pivotal to their win yesterday. On the other hand we played our away system (probably due to injuries) that relies on a similar player; but the ball kept coming back negating the counter attacking threat we've seen in other games.

Dziezgiou or whatever his name is, is dogshit. Just a bruiser. Gangly, limited, awful first touch. Hes strong and works hard but he is garbage. If we'd paid 5 million for that lump of shit I'd be well peeved.

 

[DronnieBlade]

They focus on tactical stuff for the most part.I'm not an idealogue; I'm interested in the tactical style and why it works or doesn't work. David Weir was an ideologue playing the ball across his back four to Matt Hill and Neill Collins; looking for Michael Doyle to pick the probing passes through the opponent's back line. My favourite style of football is the press and counter press style; but I'm more interested in winning if we don't have the personel to pull of this style and get promoted. Our promotion team played this style consistently - it was brilliant and, imo, a lot more entertaining than this season's games. A team capable of performing my favourite style wouldn't have Gary Madine in it, but we're simply not good enough to do it consistently away from home and gain automatic promotion (the results spoke for themselves). Footballers are just tools imo. To set up in opposition to an opponents style or to accentuate your style. Horses for courses as it were. I hope that's dispelled a few myths.
For the avoidance of doubt: I've got no truck with people telling me my analysis is shit (I'm not precious, and you can be as blunt as that) but I'd like them to tell me WHY they think it's shit, and what their own analysis is. It's easy being a critic.

Are you aware of our away points record this season pre Madine ?

It’s rather impressive and somewhat flies in the face of what you suggest.

Also, I’m curious as to how you see the across the back stuff differently now to how you did under Weir. I assume you will concede that this Wilder side does this, and with just as much regularity (more in my opinion).

I think I know the answer, but just curious of your take on it.

An awful lot of fans fail to understand WHY the so called tippy tappy backwards and sideways stuff is done, what is achieves, and how it helps to open teams up.

So to clarify, EXACTLY what is different under Wilder vs Weir in this regard ?

Forgive me if I have mistakenly bundled you with the plethora of fans that inhabit the ground and this forum that imply that being a, for want of a better word, bully of a footballer is something to behold.

I don’t believe it is. Strength can be an asset, but in the modern game it comes after Stamina and Speed in order of importance of the 3 Ss !

And I must disagree that in terms of entertainment value, this season ranks as high as any in the last 30-40 years I would imagine (I only go back to the 80s so can only comment this far back but I’m aware many champion the Harris era of the 70s with much love !).

UTB

 

[wizadry]

Dziezgiou or whatever his name is, is dogshit. Just a bruiser. Gangly, limited, awful first touch. Hes strong and works hard but he is garbage. If we'd paid 5 million for that lump of shit I'd be well peeved.

I couldn’t disagree anymore Ken, if they had someone up top with him then they’d have caused us even more problems.

 

[finlaytheblade]

They stood a man on him all game. The pigs and some other clubs have done the same. The rationale is to stop us playing out through him, which in turn keeps the wide centre backs from overlapping as effectively (as the emphasis is on them to build the attacks from deep in our half) . Norwood often slips in to the wide centre back roles in our half when teams don't do this, then the wide centreback on one side makes the overlap.

Bristol played really well and there game plan worked ,,stopped us playing .We did well to get our noses Infront 2nd half. Unlucky to lose Jack at a vital time
We were wide open down that side once Johnson came on.Bad call by Wilder.
All managers get it wrong occasionally ,Johnson Bristol manager is a clever coach and he won the battle on the day,we move on.

 

[sitwell]

Bristol played really well and there game plan worked ,,stopped us playing .We did well to get our noses Infront 2nd half. Unlucky to lose Jack at a vital time
We were wide open down that side once Johnson came on.Bad call by Wilder.
All managers get it wrong occasionally ,Johnson Bristol manager is a clever coach and he won the battle on the day,we move on.

Agree but Johnson l didn't nobble joc and then put Johnson m at left back,, we ballsed up unluckily, now we move on.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Dziezgiou or whatever his name is, is dogshit. Just a bruiser. Gangly, limited, awful first touch. Hes strong and works hard but he is garbage. If we'd paid 5 million for that lump of shit I'd be well peeved.

To be fair, I've seen him numerous times and never been impressed. He's looked a dud.Until yesterday.

 

[Kenilworth]

I couldn’t disagree anymore Ken, if they had someone up top with him then they’d have caused us even more problems.

Not sure what you are trying to say there Wizzers.
You couldn't disagree any more or you couldn't disagree anymore?
He's dog shit with the ball.
His only vamue is his nuisance factor
Cant hit a ball cleanly (probably true of his own gnads)
Powerful, strong, athletic, ungainly.
I dont even think his team mates know what the fuck he is going to do next.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Dziezgiou or whatever his name is, is dogshit. Just a bruiser. Gangly, limited, awful first touch. Hes strong and works hard but he is garbage. If we'd paid 5 million for that lump of shit I'd be well peeved.

Well yesterday he looked like fucking drogba.

 

[Kenilworth]

Well yesterday he looked like fucking drogba.

Dog bobbar

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Dog bobbar

Are you basing this on yesterdays performance?

 

[wizadry]

Not sure what you are trying to say there Wizzers.
You couldn't disagree any more or you couldn't disagree anymore?
He's dog shit with the ball.
His only vamue is his nuisance factor
Cant hit a ball cleanly (probably true of his own gnads)
Powerful, strong, athletic, ungainly.
I dont even think his team mates know what the fuck he is going to do next.

Sorry Ken, you knew what I meant.

I’ve only really seen him yesterday and on a few highlight clips and he looks a good player from what I’ve seen, I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one as you clearly don’t rate him.