It's Not Just About Money

[robbiez666]

I'm guilty as any of questioning the lack of investment in the team. Whilst we've clearly not had game changing investment (even significant or much more than before the Prince came)in the first team, I don't think it's particularly necessary to get out of this league.

Of the teams we've played so far, most have had players who would have bolstered our team. Most of whom their clubs signed on frees, low fees or loan. It strikes me that we're missing certain types of players. Ones who will harry and fight all day long. Billy apart, we don't seem to have that.

Oddly, in the big games in the cups last season all our players ran themselves into the ground. Whilst in the league, most didn't look bothered. We've played teams with players who will lose the ball and chase it back, close down all game and will bust a gut to get a challenge in. We've missed a Doyle-type player as at least he would do that. There's no fight or do or die mentality in the team (unless we're on TV in big cup games and they're suddenly all giving everything. It's really strange that this seems to permeate the whole squad and over the tenancy of several managers.

It surprised me that we've never addressed this, and it's been particularly apparent with the total lack of leadership on the pitch. Our captain is amongst the worst culprits for shirking responsibility, blaming others and failing to talk to others on the pitch. We seem to have a bunch of players on the way down the leagues and not on the way up. They obviously want to win, but not desperately.

We desperately need fighters and leaders if we're going to get up. When the going gets tough, the team currently go missing. We need to bring this type of player in without delay. A couple would motivate the others to pull their fingers out.

 

[Ricky]

This is another way the size of the squad causes problems. It's harder for a couple of determined leader types to influence a squad of 30+ than a squad of 20. As we are, we barely have one player of that sort of character so it's no surprise the lack of leadership and drive is so evident. What is surprising is that Adkins has failed to address it when we all knew it was a problem.

 

[him behind you]

Really good point Robbie. We moaned last season (and to an extent, the season before) about our cup tarts but maybe there's more to it. Maybe we just have too many players only in it for the glory and who simply don't have the mental strength to dig in when the going gets tough unless it's likely to get them the headlines.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Completely agree, although I think you're being too generous with this lot. In terms of dedication to the cause, with the possible exception of JCR this team don't have a spine between them.
Last night they go a goal behind- not interested
Go two goals behind- not interested
2nd half- Get gifted a chance to pull one back- Briefly a bit more interested
Equalize- Spend about 5 minutes being interested then go back to playing like fucking zombies.

I'll tell you what, if this had been one of Warnocks teams I'd be rubbing my hands at going 0-2 down to a side like Colchester in the first half because we'd be in store for at least a 3 goal fightback in the second. Last night showed just how long gone those days are. No desire, no bollocks. All Sheffield United are to these players are a big cash cow in a small-time division. It's easy money.

 

[robbiez666]

It struck me last night that it's really odd to have such a large squad and not really have any individual player unrest about not getting games. You would think they'd be chomping at the bit to play, but the majority don't seem fussed.

 

[Bladebri]

get them on EBay

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

What is surprising is that Adkins has failed to address it when we all knew it was a problem.

Why the surprise, he admitted last night that he learnt a lot from the defeats so he hasn't evaluated the squad YET.

 

[BushBlade]

It struck me last night that it's really odd to have such a large squad and not really have any individual player unrest about not getting games. You would think they'd be chomping at the bit to play, but the majority don't seem fussed.

It's a bit premature. I think all of our fit outfield players have been given games, if only in the cups. Which of our players has done so well that they could feel unfairly treated if they don't play?
Which is a bit concerning in itself

 

[Ricky]

Why the surprise, he admitted last night that he learnt a lot from the defeats so he hasn't evaluated the squad YET.

When he first came in I doubt any of us thought he'd be as casual in his approach to incoming transfers.

 

[robbiez666]

It's a bit premature. I think all of our fit outfield players have been given games, if only in the cups. Which of our players has done so well that they could feel unfairly treated if they don't play?
Which is a bit concerning in itself

None, and one of the factors might be injuries as many are, or have been, out.

But it just feels strange that, over the past few years, there's been very few cases of players wanting to leave to get first team football.

 

[Worksop II]

if only in the cups

We threw over in that, to concentrate on the League ................................. pffft

 

[blade too long]

 

[BushBlade]

None, and one of the factors might be injuries as many are, or have been, out.

But it just feels strange that, over the past few years, there's been very few cases of players wanting to leave to get first team football.

I get what you're saying but apart from Collins last season who hasn't got a game that should have? I'm genuinely struggling to think. Porter left because he knew he wasn't getting a look in, Miller likewise.

The likes of Scougall, McNulty, MacGahey were all signed as prospects and have been given games to prove themselves and develop. Perhaps we're paying them a bit too much and they'd rather stay with us than play every week? Or perhaps they think we're a good club to develop them.

 

[Guesty]

Completely agree, although I think you're being too generous with this lot. In terms of dedication to the cause, with the possible exception of JCR this team don't have a spine between them.
Last night they go a goal behind- not interested
Go two goals behind- not interested
2nd half- Get gifted a chance to pull one back- Briefly a bit more interested
Equalize- Spend about 5 minutes being interested then go back to playing like fucking zombies.

I'll tell you what, if this had been one of Warnocks teams I'd be rubbing my hands at going 0-2 down to a side like Colchester in the first half because we'd be in store for at least a 3 goal fightback in the second. Last night showed just how long gone those days are. No desire, no bollocks. All Sheffield United are to these players are a big cash cow in a small-time division. It's easy money.

Funny you should mention 'playing like zombies' because that was exactly what I thought about Saturday at 1-1! I couldn't believe the lack of, if not effort, then at least initiative when drawing at home with ten or so minutes left. You'd have assumed we were either 3-0 up or down if you'd only watched that section of the match. Utterly bizarre.

 

[BushBlade]

We threw over in that, to concentrate on the League ................................. pffft

Yeah, I was there.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Completely agree, although I think you're being too generous with this lot. In terms of dedication to the cause, with the possible exception of JCR this team don't have a spine between them.
Last night they go a goal behind- not interested
Go two goals behind- not interested
2nd half- Get gifted a chance to pull one back- Briefly a bit more interested
Equalize- Spend about 5 minutes being interested then go back to playing like fucking zombies.

I'll tell you what, if this had been one of Warnocks teams I'd be rubbing my hands at going 0-2 down to a side like Colchester in the first half because we'd be in store for at least a 3 goal fightback in the second. Last night showed just how long gone those days are. No desire, no bollocks. All Sheffield United are to these players are a big cash cow in a small-time division. It's easy money.

Point taken. Pity Neil allowed Colchester to steamroller us out of the FA cup in 2006 though.

 

[Bladesince59]

It shouldn't be about the money it should be about the shirt and pride. Do any of you think that Warnock would let these twats get away with being fucking prima donnas on an amateur talent night more than once? If they did they would get a size ten up their arse and marching orders. So no more Mr Nice Guy please Mr Adkins.
UTB

 

[Roygbiv]

These players won't change. They simply haven't got what it takes to be part of a promotion winning side. It's more of a mentality thing for me than anything else.

Take a look at the squad, Only the following players have achieved promotions as far as I know

Billy Sharp
Martyn Woolford
Neill Collins
Matt Done
Jay McEverley
Paul Coutts
Jamal Campbell-Ryce

When you think of the size of our squad that's a very poor number of players, We lack real winners

 

[robbiez666]

The downward spiral or Sheffield United XI

1. Howard - reserve at championship level and considered not good enough
2. Freeman - Not good enough for Derby
3. J-Mac - Considered not good enough for the Championship
4. Collins- Not good enough for Leeds
5. Edgar - Not good enough for current team
6. Bash - Not good enough for Championship
7. Baxter - Everton talent who has slipped down to League 1
8. JCR - Journey man who has slowly slipped down from Championship
9. Sharp - Not good enough for Championship
10. Sammon - ditto
11. Woolford - ditto.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our whole starting line-up last night were players who have been at a higher level and deemed not good enough. They're all on a downward trajectory. It's no wonder no one seems to have any passion on heart or is desperate to win. They all know their dreams of making it have gone and are playing just for money. Even with those out injured, there's only Done and the youngsters who don't fit into that category.

Have we ever had a team and squad like this before? A team of failures.

The above may sound harsh, but it's reality. It's not unusual for players to drop down to go back up again, but a whole team of them?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

These players won't change. They simply haven't got what it takes to be part of a promotion winning side. It's more of a mentality thing for me than anything else.

Take a look at the squad, Only the following players have achieved promotions as far as I know

Billy Sharp
Martyn Woolford
Neill Collins
Matt Done
Jay McEverley
Paul Coutts
Jamal Campbell-Ryce

When you think of the size of our squad that's a very poor number of players, We lack real winners

Roy , i think you have made a very good point and hit the nail on the head. Adkins is in to sports psychology in a big way . The players have shown the inconstancy ( ok yo do get it at this level ) , that they can "sometimes" meet the physical and technical side of the game , but cannot cope with the continual mental demands required to be a consistent succesful side.

As a team we do need to add mental toughness , of which you require

Winners

Self belief

Motivation

Focus

Unfortunately , its not that we have a bunch of players who cannot play football , they just lack the right attitude and none of them are competitive warriors .

Its a major problem for Adkins , who has now found and realised the home truths, as the players do not take responsibility , for there defined job , on the field of play.

Our achilles heel , is a major cull IMO , would be the only way to sort it.

UTB

 

[rtifati]

It's a bit premature. I think all of our fit outfield players have been given games, if only in the cups. Which of our players has done so well that they could feel unfairly treated if they don't play?
Which is a bit concerning in itself

Some of the youngsters might be feeling a bit hard done by. Last night's subs bench was particularly poor and we had few options to really change things up front. I'd rather see the likes of Diego and Jake Wright given a chance than Higdon on the bench every week.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

The downward spiral or Sheffield United XI

1. Howard - reserve at championship level and considered not good enough
2. Freeman - Not good enough for Derby
3. J-Mac - Considered not good enough for the Championship
4. Collins- Not good enough for Leeds
5. Edgar - Not good enough for current team
6. Bash - Not good enough for Championship
7. Baxter - Everton talent who has slipped down to League 1
8. JCR - Journey man who has slowly slipped down from Championship
9. Sharp - Not good enough for Championship
10. Sammon - ditto
11. Woolford - ditto.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our whole starting line-up last night were players who have been at a higher level and deemed not good enough. They're all on a downward trajectory. It's no wonder no one seems to have any passion on heart or is desperate to win. They all know their dreams of making it have gone and are playing just for money. Even with those out injured, there's only Done and the youngsters who don't fit into that category.

Have we ever had a team and squad like this before? A team of failures.

The above may sound harsh, but it's reality. It's not unusual for players to drop down to go back up again, but a whole team of them?

I would say they are all mentally weak ( some being in a comfort zone ), which in a way does make them failures , and therefore , not on top of there profession.

The only 2no players out of the whole squad who IMO really hurt are Brayford and Sharp , followed perhaps , by the 2no junior members , Adams and Reed .

Not a good position for SUFC , albeit , it is a bit ground hog day .

UTB

 

[Caseh]

The downward spiral or Sheffield United XI

1. Howard - reserve at championship level and considered not good enough
2. Freeman - Not good enough for Derby
3. J-Mac - Considered not good enough for the Championship
4. Collins- Not good enough for Leeds
5. Edgar - Not good enough for current team
6. Bash - Not good enough for Championship
7. Baxter - Everton talent who has slipped down to League 1
8. JCR - Journey man who has slowly slipped down from Championship
9. Sharp - Not good enough for Championship
10. Sammon - ditto
11. Woolford - ditto.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our whole starting line-up last night were players who have been at a higher level and deemed not good enough. They're all on a downward trajectory. It's no wonder no one seems to have any passion on heart or is desperate to win. They all know their dreams of making it have gone and are playing just for money. Even with those out injured, there's only Done and the youngsters who don't fit into that category.

Have we ever had a team and squad like this before? A team of failures.

The above may sound harsh, but it's reality. It's not unusual for players to drop down to go back up again, but a whole team of them?

Surprise surprise, League 1 team signs players that aren't good enough for the league above... If they were currently good enough, they wouldn't have signed for us, would they? Also I'd say Sharp is good enough for the Championship, and Freeman has been arguably our best/most consistent player since we signed him.

 

[him behind you]

OTE="Roygbiv, post: 833034, member: 13333"]These players won't change. They simply haven't got what it takes to be part of a promotion winning side. It's more of a mentality thing for me than anything else.

Take a look at the squad, Only the following players have achieved promotions as far as I know

Billy Sharp
Martyn Woolford
Neill Collins
Matt Done
Jay McEverley
Paul Coutts
Jamal Campbell-Ryce

When you think of the size of our squad that's a very poor number of players, We lack real winners[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agree Roy. Not wanting to turn this into another thread about N2, but he did bang om a lot about the players he signed had to have the right "character" so I'd love to know what that meant because many of them have sod all on the pitch.

 

[wizadry]

Surprise surprise, League 1 team signs players that aren't good enough for the league above... If they were currently good enough, they wouldn't have signed for us, would they? Also I'd say Sharp is good enough for the Championship, and Freeman has been arguably our best/most consistent player since we signed him.

What do you reckon we are going to do if we go up this season, and it's a huge if 'btw', when we have very few players who could compete at Championship level? I know what my answer is and it's not bring in wholesale changes because we won't be able to.

No one will take some of the shit we have so we just have to let their contracts run out as that's the only way to get rid, unless of course we pay them off, meaning we lose out yet again, after losing out in getting the players in the first place.

We've had bad planning for quite a few years now and we somehow need to put a stop to it.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

The one clear advantage ( apart from injury cover ) which a large squad should give you is competition for places which pushes players to perform or lose their place. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case. Clough assembled a large squad of identikits without properly sorting the defence which Adkins is saddled with as I doubt anyone who would have them would meet their wage demands. Therefore, the idea of a cull, whilst appealing, is unlikely in my view.

Who would take Higdon - don't know what we are paying him but he was asking for £8k a week from Chesterfield before he signed for us. Can anyone see a Div 1, Div 2 or Scottish club forking out that for him? Similarly Wallace J. Why would anyone take him on with his injury record (indeed why did we?). Clough liked to gamble on injured players making a recovery (Higdon wasn't fit, even Done was injured when he joined us). It remains to be seen if Coutts will come back and perform at anything like his previous level (at Preston). Similarly Cuvelier (I know NC didn't buy him). Add to that the number of players who will never be more than journeymen who are probably on the best wages they are likely to get in football -eg McFadzean.

Why would any of them go? To play football ? The only ones I can think of who would do that are Cuvelier and JCR. Collins wouldn't shift for months despite intense pressure until he cracked and went on loan to Port Vale. Clough did a lot of things wrong, but also did some things right. The "we're all United" attitude of Adkins ( which I can understand from a point of view of team morale) does have a weakness if every player is told they have a role to play instead of some of them being told, "sorry but you aren't good enough for this team and your future lies elsewhere". The club needs to work on its transfer and scouting capability which I am hoping the new guy from Scunny is doing. But the other end of the equation is an exit strategy - otherwise you end up with a large squad which is uniformly mediocre, complacent and unambitious with only our better players leaving. This is probably Adkins and SUFC's biggest management challenge in my view.

 

[metalblade]

OTE="Roygbiv, post: 833034, member: 13333"]These players won't change. They simply haven't got what it takes to be part of a promotion winning side. It's more of a mentality thing for me than anything else.

Take a look at the squad, Only the following players have achieved promotions as far as I know

Billy Sharp
Martyn Woolford
Neill Collins
Matt Done
Jay McEverley
Paul Coutts
Jamal Campbell-Ryce

When you think of the size of our squad that's a very poor number of players, We lack real winners

Absolutely agree Roy. Not wanting to turn this into another thread about N2, but he did bang om a lot about the players he signed had to have the right "character" so I'd love to know what that meant because many of them have sod all on the pitch.

Take the NA signings from that list and we are left with five players who have managed to achieve something, one of them (Collins) is surely coming to the end of his career another (Coutts) is never fit so that leaves us with two Journeymen (JCR & McEverley) and Matt Done who is currently a long term injury. Only Done from pre NA days can look forward to a good number of years remaining in his playing career so not a very good list of players at the club who can be classed as winners or have the time and ambition to achieve anything once more.

 

[grafikhaus]

Surprise surprise, League 1 team signs players that aren't good enough for the league above... If they were currently good enough, they wouldn't have signed for us, would they? Also I'd say Sharp is good enough for the Championship, and Freeman has been arguably our best/most consistent player since we signed him.

But that's not the point. There are plenty of players not quite good enough to be in the Championship, but good enough to get us into the Championship.

Excellent points robbiez666 (Posts #1 and #19). In the last two games, we've been out-fought by Bury and out-footballed by Colchester. Bury showed a fitness and mean streak that we've not witnessed from United for years. It may well be enough to get them promoted. Would it work in the Championship? Almost certainly not, but that's when you need to change both tactics and players. Just get there.

Not only were Colchester better than us all over the park, they attacked with speed, flair and desire. Us? Half a dozen backwards or sideways passes (with the occasional excursion back to Howard). By this time the opposition midfield and defence have got 'set'. Finally play the ball forward (probably to an opposition player). Put it out to the wings (and J C-R does not beat a player and then go back to try to beat him again - he's just painfully one-footed), fire in a cross and hope for the best. It's slow, predsictable and ineffective. I should think United's pass completion rate is 90%+. Trouble is, the 10% are the passes that matter, the 'killer ball' that will unlock defences.

And you're right about age/desire. Every opposition team has a blend of battle-hardened pros (Bury) and young 'run through brick wall' kids. We've got too many players who have lost that desire, not fit enough and are simply drifting. We got used to that under Clough but the time is fast approaching when NA has had time to assess the squad he's inherited and acts.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

What value would you put on a present-day Trevor Hockey?

 

[Slim Man]

Completely agree, although I think you're being too generous with this lot. In terms of dedication to the cause, with the possible exception of JCR this team don't have a spine between them.
Last night they go a goal behind- not interested
Go two goals behind- not interested
2nd half- Get gifted a chance to pull one back- Briefly a bit more interested
Equalize- Spend about 5 minutes being interested then go back to playing like fucking zombies.

I'll tell you what, if this had been one of Warnocks teams I'd be rubbing my hands at going 0-2 down to a side like Colchester in the first half because we'd be in store for at least a 3 goal fightback in the second. Last night showed just how long gone those days are. No desire, no bollocks. All Sheffield United are to these players are a big cash cow in a small-time division. It's easy money.

Sadly, I completely fucking agree.