Is the Championship THAT much better?

[Upton_Blade]

Spending an absolute ton of money doesn't always ensure promotion to the Prem and all we need to do is look at our porcine neighbors to realise that.

I truly believe with the amount of money they have spent on fees and wages they under performed last year and even more so this season and that's because in reality good old Carlos isn't really that good.

I would far prefer a good manager ie CW with half their budget as i think the results would be similar and we wouldn't be risking the financial future of the club in the process.

Let's be honest they have to go up soon or the belt tightening will begin and we know where that ends up from 1st hand experience.

Also Villa have the 20th highest wage bill in world football and look where it's got them so far.

 

[snootyfenooty]

If they ever end up paying £10m. As far as I'm aware it's a loan. Whether they're obliged to buy or not, regardless of whether they go up, I don't know.

Bush, according to the BBC it will be converted to a permanent deal at the end of the season. The quoted fee is £10m, which is £1m more than Boro' paid. As you said earlier, if he was any good for the prem he would have played for Boro'. So it looks to me that there is only one winner in this deal. Looks like a classic SWFIUA to me.

 

[BushBlade]

Bush, according to the BBC it will be converted to a permanent deal at the end of the season. The quoted fee is £10m, which is £1m more than Boro' paid. As you said earlier, if he was any good for the prem he would have played for Boro'. So it looks to me that there is only one winner in this deal. Looks like a classic SWFIUA to me.

But the BBC haven't seen the contract. Whilst Wednesday may be happy to let people think it's a done deal we have no idea what the actual terms are. They may have a get out clause if they don't go up.
It could be that they either pay a loan fee and his wages for the season but he goes back if they don't go up, or if they do, the loan fee is offset against the £10m transfer fee.
E.g. They pay £1m to loan him until the end of the season. If they go up they have to buy him for a further £9m, if not, he goes back to boro and the pigs lose £1m + his wages.

If not, why not buy him outright now? Why the fannying about into the late hours?

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

The Championship breaks down into 6 groups:

1) The Haves
These are the sides who have come down from the Premier League recently with all the parachute payments. They are generally found spending big money on proven top end Championship players while also shifting on their better performers from previous years back to the top flight: Newcastle, Norwich, Villa,

2) The Nouveau Riche
These are the sides who have been taken over by loaded new owners who have varying degrees of knowledge about how to run a football club. They're spending big money but almost exclusively on foreign imports or mid-to-top end championship players: Wednesday, Wolves, Derby

3) The Tarnished
Sides whose recent takeovers have failed and whose owners are seemingly losing interest: Leeds, Cardiff,

4) The Canny
These sides focus their purchases on value for money - either picking up up-and-coming younger players from the lower leagues or cheap signings from Premier League teams who haven't worked out at their previous clubs for one reason or another: Brighton, Barnsley, Bristol C, Reading, Fulham, Brentford, Preston

5) Those punching above their weight
As it says: sides who rely on picking up points here and there with their sole aim being to stay in the division: Wigan, Burton, Rotherham

6) The rudderless
Rudderless teams with seemingly no idea how to shake out of their malaise despite throwing various amounts of money at it: Blackburn, Birmingham, Derby, Forest, Ipswich, QPR. Us between 2009 and 2011.

There's no correlation between the category and where the team finds itself in the league except that those you'd class as canny are generally outperforming those who have loads of money. I'd like to think that, should we get promoted, having Wilder in charge and Mitchell heading up the scouting we'd be in the canny group: Wilder's speciality is identifying middling players and coaxing a high level of performance out of them as a group. We're not going ot be spending £5m+ on players so that's where we'll have to try and find our success

And there's me thinking you played 46 games against 23 other teams and tried to win as many times as possible.
Wow.

 

[blader]

I do think people are a little naive about saying 'I watched the game and it wasn't any good' about the championship. There are a lot of factors, but the main one being that better teams cancel each other out.

I watched Liverpool vs Man U early in the year at an field that finished 0-0. It was dire to watch. We have had much more entertaining games every week in L1. Does it mean we would compete? No, ofcourse not.

I do believe we have some players, particularly those u25 that can grow into championship players comfortably, and I also believe our team would have a good chance of surviving, but it would need a complete overhaul for us to start competing in the top 6. I have seen Southampton and B'Mouth cited as examples, butjust take a minute to look at the squads they got promoted with!

We need to do a bit of a Burnley next year (if we go up). Home form is vital, I would expect us to lose most away games, even against the crap like Forest and QPR, but we could beat anyone at home, no doubt. If you look at the bottom half of the champ (the ones that will survive), they have mostly accumulated fewer than 15 points all season away from home. They just beat each other at home!

You just need to look at some of the players we've seen tear up L1 in previous years and then pale into insignificance after signing for championship clubs. Let's also remember that the likes of Duffy have had several goes at the Championshp and not made the grade. Its a different world, and teams such as Ipswich (very very average in the championship) are usually only made to look so by teams of real quality. They are still a better team than we currently are.
Doesn't mean we can't get to that level next season, but we aren't there yet.

The champ has taken a similar format to the Prem circa 2000. There is always going to be a top half dozen with big money that we just won't be able to compete with, but everyone else is very beatable with a few astute signings. I think we can easily survive but can't expect us to be challenging top 6 just yet. Remember how long it took us to get out of it last time!

 

[I should coco]

I do think people are a little naive about saying 'I watched the game and it wasn't any good' about the championship. There are a lot of factors, but the main one being that better teams cancel each other out.

You are Nigel Adkins and i claim my £5.

You missed out the 'unseen work' though.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Can't argue with any of that. Yes, it's the budgets that have increased, not the footballing standards, and that's something we will have to address. However, there are other pro's and con's you have to throw into the mix besides money, the manager to name but one.

I think the thing is, many fans and I suspect more importantly, many board members at this club probably see a £1million transfer fee as a big, marquee signing. When clubs in the championship are spending upwards of ten times that on a player, it will be hard to compete in terms of recruitment. I can’t see us going out and singing a £4-5million player here and there like our porky neighbours are.


We’re going to have to scout well and have a team that’s more than the sum of it’s parts if we’re to be competitive.

 

[Blade56]

Didn't Prince promise to put £10 million in if we got promoted?

 

[snootyfenooty]

If not, why not buy him outright now? Why the fannying about into the late hours?

Maybe they borrowed our fax machine

 

[YES Blade]

Bush, according to the BBC it will be converted to a permanent deal at the end of the season. The quoted fee is £10m, which is £1m more than Boro' paid. As you said earlier, if he was any good for the prem he would have played for Boro'. So it looks to me that there is only one winner in this deal. Looks like a classic SWFIUA to me.

£10m is the going rate for a proven Championship striker like Rhodes, if he was Premier League class he would be £20m+ (e.g Christian Benteke cost Palace £27m and he's hardly one of the best).

I think you're about 10 years behind the times when it comes to transfer fees!

 

[snootyfenooty]

£10m is the going rate for a proven Championship striker like Rhodes, if he was Premier League class he would be £20m+ (e.g Christian Benteke cost Palace £27m and he's hardly one of the best).

I think you're about 10 years behind the times when it comes to transfer fees!

How long have you been watching United? We've never competed in the transfer market for players. Why do you think all our transfer dealings are undisclosed? It's because we are too fucking embarrassed to disclose them. We've always relied on guile and out of the box thinking when it comes to signing players.

I think our record is about £3m either for Calamity Claude or Beattie. If anyone thinks this is going to change when, sorry if we go up, then they will be disappointed. We will be relying on our manager, our academy, our scouting staff and the fact that we always manage to pick up a gem or two for next to nowt to see us through.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

Thought the pigs had just chucked £10m at Rhodes. Can't see us emulating that kind of spend.
IF we get there we'd need at least 4 to 6 players as some of ours would IMO be squad only and some would need shipping out.
Biggest issue would be in the boardroom not on the pitch.
I'm not holding my breath for the "Liverpool type investment" the Prince will make available.

Yeah but the pigs were already thereabouts without spending £10m on him which is the point really. It's possible to build a decent Championship side without spending those sort of sums.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Yeah but the pigs were already thereabouts without spending £10m on him which is the point really. It's possible to build a decent Championship side without spending those sort of sums.

And the reason they were thereabouts was due to chucking a pretty fair amount at getting there.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

And the reason they were thereabouts was due to chucking a pretty fair amount at getting there.

But they weren't spectacular amounts. More the sort of amounts I can realistically see United spending should we go up.

 

[YES Blade]

How long have you been watching United? We've never competed in the transfer market for players. Why do you think all our transfer dealings are undisclosed? It's because we are too fucking embarrassed to disclose them. We've always relied on guile and out of the box thinking when it comes to signing players.

I think our record is about £3m either for Calamity Claude or Beattie. If anyone thinks this is going to change when, sorry if we go up, then they will be disappointed. We will be relying on our manager, our academy, our scouting staff and the fact that we always manage to pick up a gem or two for next to nowt to see us through.

All I said was that £10m for Rhodes is the going rate. I didn't say anything about United or our transfer policy?!?

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

But they weren't spectacular amounts. More the sort of amounts I can realistically see United spending should we go up.

I admire your optimism and belief. I hope you aren't very disappointed.

#gamechanginginvestment

 

[blade too long]

Actually I'd say 7 groups.

I think Group 2 ('The nouveau rich') has a special sub group; 'The Deluded'.

The Porcine Massive should go in there for thinking that they are bigger than all the other 23 clubs combined.

just heard one on radio sheffield saying everyone in sheffield knows wednesday are a top flight side and united championship at best
and Im thinking , no wednesday fan under 22 23 seeing as you can only be aware at 5 and thats being generous , but none of that group has ever seen Wednesday in the top flight

 

[YES Blade]

I admire your optimism and belief. I hope you aren't very disappointed.

#gamechanginginvestment

I agree, the budget would no doubt increase but I can't see us paying £40k or £50k p/w on one players wages or spending over a £1m on a single fee.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

But they weren't spectacular amounts. More the sort of amounts I can realistically see United spending should we go up.

According to this site

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sheffield-wednesday/transfers/verein/1035/saison_id/2015

I really hope you're right but can't see it.

Forestieri- £3.5million
Hooper- £3.32million
Matias- £2.64million
Joao- £2.36million
Reach- £5.02million
Abdi- £3.06million

Over £22million spent in total over about 18 months before the Rhodes signing as well as huge wages to the likes of Fletcher, Jones etc.

I can't see us spending those kind of sums. I reckon we might spend about £5-6 million in our first season back. Probably no more than our current record of around £3million on one player. I'd be surprised if we paid anyone more than £20k per week.

On the one hand, I don't necessarily want us to spunk massive amounts and live beyond our means but on the other hand, if we were able to pay that sort of money, we could surely be more competitive.