Is Our Squad Too Large?

[Barney]

I'll start by apologising for the long thread and thanking anybody who reads the thread to completion.

If in the event where NA is unable to make any adjustments to NC's somewhat awful released list, that leaves us with 33 players still in the squad. That number, by any team, in any league's standards, is too large of a number to be able to pay significant salary to a large proportion in order to attract the best players you possibly can.

Inevitably to make way for new signings, we have to offload a lot of what we have in order to get the new players in without having a squad of 37+ which anyone can see will obviously be both financially and physically unviable. There are the following ways around it:

• NA is able to adjust NC's released list and he clears out a lot of the non-worthy players.

• We sell at least the same amount of players we plan to sign, if not ideally we sell more to cut the squad size and ensure the wage bill is more densely distributed over a small number of players that are real quality, rather than a high number of players that are awful.

Each scenario seems somewhat unlikely. The first being unlikely as I doubt that contracts are able to be changed after being signed etc. and released players who have been released by NC are probably definitely not worth going after again on a free. The second scenario being unlikely reflecting on the attitude and reluctance of NA with regards to selling any players, albeit he was speaking with reference to Murphy but I suppose that reluctance to sell could well be transferred to the rest of the squad. Adding to that I just can't see 4 or 5 players being sold for one reason or another.

Without intending to come across as the negative, grumpy old codger that I seem to in many of my threads, I stress that I rather try to analyse problems we face, not that I can solve them, just as it is natural for many of us otherwise we wouldn't be using these forums would we I suppose?

In conclusion, I do think this is a great issue that we face and I like to think it needs addressing ASAP by somebody of influence at our great club.

UTB.

 

[Deadbat]

The squad is way too large. I agree. It is littered with average players and outside the stand out 5 or 6; the quality level from 7 to say 30 is minimal.

However whist Adkins has to give everyone a fresh slate from tomorrow - I would be surprised and disappointed if we did not ship out half a dozen to a dozen players before the end of the window. Getting someone to take them may be a problem but I would not be disappointed if we were to see the following move on which is 7 players. We could loan another 4 or 5 and then jury out on another 4 or 5 too.

Way I see it.

Alcock - Poor defender. Not even sure I would trust him as cover
McEveley - See above.
Collins - Time to move on. He may be championed by some on here but surely we need to be getting better if we want to finally get out of this league. If we moved on Doyle, then Collins who was even less likely to be a starter should go too
Mcfadzean - Been around a while and even at Burton was not a regular. Time to move on.
Cuvelier - Had 2 seasons at the Lane and too injury prone. Even when he has played done nothing to suggest he can be a regular first teamer.
K Wallace - Just looked woefully out of his depth
Higdon - Just a car crash for the most part. Needs to be moved on.

I honestly don't think any of the aboe are good enough to be even close to regulars for a team looking for a top 2 place. Maybe we keep a couple as squad players/cover but I would not lose any sleep if all of them went.

I would also let the following go on loan if we can but even these surely have to push on now despite relative inexperience/ages if they are going to be seen as a first teamer at SUFC and all face a critical season. None of these are like 17 or 18 now with most around 20ish.

Willis - Ended up 4th choice keeper - He needs games / a loan spell
Khan - Not pushed on last season and gone backwards I would suggest
DiMaio - As above but he needs a loan spell
McGahey - Not seen anything to suggest any genuine promise/ability that some others have had as harsh as that sounds. Was a disaster at Tranmere on loan.

They are also question marks over the following 5 for different reasons even though I would not necessarily ship them out:

Long - Will get a chance to impress but if he goes out on loan again and does not make the first team at SUFC then in his final year of his contract unsure he would remain.
Kennedy - Just too many injuries. I get the impression this season will see if he will remain in the professional game. If his knee keeps going again then he may have to pack up.
Wallace - See above
Baxter - See what he gets in terms of a ban - if it is for 6 months or more with him being in the finak year of his contract then his days could be numbered. I am not sure I would keep him long term anyway.
Campbell Ryce - I would keep him for the final year of his contract just as an impact 15-20 minute players off the bench. He could still help us at this awful standard for one season but has no real long term future at the Lane.

That is before we even get to players who still have still not totally convinced last season or looked in poor form at the end of the season:

Howard, Coutts, Scougall, McNulty, Harris

So we are left with the few who I believe to be decent/can mostly rely on:

Done, Brayford (injured), Murphy, Freeman (surprised), Flynn, Reed (ended season poorly), Basham

In short the squad is top heavy with poor players, is unbalanced and lacks pace, height. However there is still a decent group of players that if added to could be there or thereabouts for the top two but priority is two centre halves and, a leader in midfield and a goalscorer.

 

[jt64]

Yes

 

[Barney]

The squad is way too large. I agree. It is littered with average players and outside the stand out 5 or 6; the quality level from 7 to say 30 is minimal.

However whist Adkins has to give everyone a fresh slate from tomorrow - I would be surprised and disappointed if we did not ship out half a dozen to a dozen players before the end of the window. Getting someone to take them may be a problem but I would not be disappointed if we were to see the following move on which is 7 players. We could loan another 4 or 5 and then jury out on another 4 or 5 too.

Way I see it.

Alcock - Poor defender. Not even sure I would trust him as cover
McEveley - See above.
Collins - Time to move on. He may be championed by some on here but surely we need to be getting better if we want to finally get out of this league. If we moved on Doyle, then Collins who was even less likely to be a starter should go too
Mcfadzean - Been around a while and even at Burton was not a regular. Time to move on.
Cuvelier - Had 2 seasons at the Lane and too injury prone. Even when he has played done nothing to suggest he can be a regular first teamer.
K Wallace - Just looked woefully out of his depth
Higdon - Just a car crash for the most part. Needs to be moved on.

I honestly don't think any of the aboe are good enough to be even close to regulars for a team looking for a top 2 place. Maybe we keep a couple as squad players/cover but I would not lose any sleep if all of them went.

I would also let the following go on loan if we can but even these surely have to push on now despite relative inexperience/ages if they are going to be seen as a first teamer at SUFC and all face a critical season. None of these are like 17 or 18 now with most around 20ish.

Willis - Ended up 4th choice keeper - He needs games / a loan spell
Khan - Not pushed on last season and gone backwards I would suggest
DiMaio - As above but he needs a loan spell
McGahey - Not seen anything to suggest any genuine promise/ability that some others have had as harsh as that sounds. Was a disaster at Tranmere on loan.

They are also question marks over the following 5 for different reasons even though I would not necessarily ship them out:

Long - Will get a chance to impress but if he goes out on loan again and does not make the first team at SUFC then in his final year of his contract unsure he would remain.
Kennedy - Just too many injuries. I get the impression this season will see if he will remain in the professional game. If his knee keeps going again then he may have to pack up.
Wallace - See above
Baxter - See what he gets in terms of a ban - if it is for 6 months or more with him being in the finak year of his contract then his days could be numbered. I am not sure I would keep him long term anyway.
Campbell Ryce - I would keep him for the final year of his contract just as an impact 15-20 minute players off the bench. He could still help us at this awful standard for one season but has no real long term future at the Lane.

That is before we even get to players who still have still not totally convinced last season or looked in poor form at the end of the season:

Howard, Coutts, Scougall, McNulty, Harris

So we are left with the few who I believe to be decent/can mostly rely on:

Done, Brayford (injured), Murphy, Freeman (surprised), Flynn, Reed (ended season poorly), Basham

In short the squad is top heavy with poor players, is unbalanced and lacks pace, height. However there is still a decent group of players that if added to could be there or thereabouts for the top two but priority is two centre halves and, a leader in midfield and a goalscorer.

I'd possibly look at shipping Reed out on loan, definitely not strong enough for this league i'd say. Great post though.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

The squad is way too large. I agree. It is littered with average players and outside the stand out 5 or 6; the quality level from 7 to say 30 is minimal.

However whist Adkins has to give everyone a fresh slate from tomorrow - I would be surprised and disappointed if we did not ship out half a dozen to a dozen players before the end of the window. Getting someone to take them may be a problem but I would not be disappointed if we were to see the following move on which is 7 players. We could loan another 4 or 5 and then jury out on another 4 or 5 too.

Way I see it.

Alcock - Poor defender. Not even sure I would trust him as cover
McEveley - See above.
Collins - Time to move on. He may be championed by some on here but surely we need to be getting better if we want to finally get out of this league. If we moved on Doyle, then Collins who was even less likely to be a starter should go too
Mcfadzean - Been around a while and even at Burton was not a regular. Time to move on.
Cuvelier - Had 2 seasons at the Lane and too injury prone. Even when he has played done nothing to suggest he can be a regular first teamer.
K Wallace - Just looked woefully out of his depth
Higdon - Just a car crash for the most part. Needs to be moved on.

I honestly don't think any of the aboe are good enough to be even close to regulars for a team looking for a top 2 place. Maybe we keep a couple as squad players/cover but I would not lose any sleep if all of them went.

I would also let the following go on loan if we can but even these surely have to push on now despite relative inexperience/ages if they are going to be seen as a first teamer at SUFC and all face a critical season. None of these are like 17 or 18 now with most around 20ish.

Willis - Ended up 4th choice keeper - He needs games / a loan spell
Khan - Not pushed on last season and gone backwards I would suggest
DiMaio - As above but he needs a loan spell
McGahey - Not seen anything to suggest any genuine promise/ability that some others have had as harsh as that sounds. Was a disaster at Tranmere on loan.

They are also question marks over the following 5 for different reasons even though I would not necessarily ship them out:

Long - Will get a chance to impress but if he goes out on loan again and does not make the first team at SUFC then in his final year of his contract unsure he would remain.
Kennedy - Just too many injuries. I get the impression this season will see if he will remain in the professional game. If his knee keeps going again then he may have to pack up.
Wallace - See above
Baxter - See what he gets in terms of a ban - if it is for 6 months or more with him being in the finak year of his contract then his days could be numbered. I am not sure I would keep him long term anyway.
Campbell Ryce - I would keep him for the final year of his contract just as an impact 15-20 minute players off the bench. He could still help us at this awful standard for one season but has no real long term future at the Lane.

That is before we even get to players who still have still not totally convinced last season or looked in poor form at the end of the season:

Howard, Coutts, Scougall, McNulty, Harris

So we are left with the few who I believe to be decent/can mostly rely on:

Done, Brayford (injured), Murphy, Freeman (surprised), Flynn, Reed (ended season poorly), Basham

In short the squad is top heavy with poor players, is unbalanced and lacks pace, height. However there is still a decent group of players that if added to could be there or thereabouts for the top two but priority is two centre halves and, a leader in midfield and a goalscorer.

Agree with most of what I scanned from that post.

Re Collins, I'm not a massive fan but since we've been in this league he's done about as much as you could expect him to in helping us get back out of it - the problem has been scoring goals since the 'Rhyl One' went away. I think he deserves another go.

 

[metalblade]

The squad is way too large. I agree. It is littered with average players and outside the stand out 5 or 6; the quality level from 7 to say 30 is minimal.

However whist Adkins has to give everyone a fresh slate from tomorrow - I would be surprised and disappointed if we did not ship out half a dozen to a dozen players before the end of the window. Getting someone to take them may be a problem but I would not be disappointed if we were to see the following move on which is 7 players. We could loan another 4 or 5 and then jury out on another 4 or 5 too.

Way I see it.

Alcock - Poor defender. Not even sure I would trust him as cover
McEveley - See above.
Collins - Time to move on. He may be championed by some on here but surely we need to be getting better if we want to finally get out of this league. If we moved on Doyle, then Collins who was even less likely to be a starter should go too
Mcfadzean - Been around a while and even at Burton was not a regular. Time to move on.
Cuvelier - Had 2 seasons at the Lane and too injury prone. Even when he has played done nothing to suggest he can be a regular first teamer.
K Wallace - Just looked woefully out of his depth
Higdon - Just a car crash for the most part. Needs to be moved on.

I honestly don't think any of the aboe are good enough to be even close to regulars for a team looking for a top 2 place. Maybe we keep a couple as squad players/cover but I would not lose any sleep if all of them went.

I would also let the following go on loan if we can but even these surely have to push on now despite relative inexperience/ages if they are going to be seen as a first teamer at SUFC and all face a critical season. None of these are like 17 or 18 now with most around 20ish.

Willis - Ended up 4th choice keeper - He needs games / a loan spell
Khan - Not pushed on last season and gone backwards I would suggest
DiMaio - As above but he needs a loan spell
McGahey - Not seen anything to suggest any genuine promise/ability that some others have had as harsh as that sounds. Was a disaster at Tranmere on loan.

They are also question marks over the following 5 for different reasons even though I would not necessarily ship them out:

Long - Will get a chance to impress but if he goes out on loan again and does not make the first team at SUFC then in his final year of his contract unsure he would remain.
Kennedy - Just too many injuries. I get the impression this season will see if he will remain in the professional game. If his knee keeps going again then he may have to pack up.
Wallace - See above
Baxter - See what he gets in terms of a ban - if it is for 6 months or more with him being in the finak year of his contract then his days could be numbered. I am not sure I would keep him long term anyway.
Campbell Ryce - I would keep him for the final year of his contract just as an impact 15-20 minute players off the bench. He could still help us at this awful standard for one season but has no real long term future at the Lane.

That is before we even get to players who still have still not totally convinced last season or looked in poor form at the end of the season:

Howard, Coutts, Scougall, McNulty, Harris

So we are left with the few who I believe to be decent/can mostly rely on:

Done, Brayford (injured), Murphy, Freeman (surprised), Flynn, Reed (ended season poorly), Basham

In short the squad is top heavy with poor players, is unbalanced and lacks pace, height. However there is still a decent group of players that if added to could be there or thereabouts for the top two but priority is two centre halves and, a leader in midfield and a goalscorer.

Can't argue against most of that, add Che Adams to the decent list. I'm sure there must be more who have been forgotten about says it all when you think who is in the squad and are struggling to think of them all, far too many players at SUFC or should I say far too many average players ? So in answer to the OP ............ do bears shit in the woods ?

 

[Barney]

Can't argue against most of that, add Che Adams to the decent list. I'm sure there must be more who have been forgotten about says it all when you think who is in the squad and are struggling to think of them all, far too many players at SUFC or should I say far too many average players ? So in answer to the OP ............ do bears shit in the woods ?

Attempt at some likes at the end there I see?

 

[Barney]

I think we should really sign players and build our squad around these key players:

• Murphy
• Done
• Basham
• Adams
• Brayford (when fit)

If we got rid of anybody else I really wouldn't mind, in fact i'd be quite happy.

 

[metalblade]

I think we should really sign players and build our squad around these key players:

• Murphy
• Done
• Basham
• Adams
• Brayford (when fit)

If we got rid of anybody else I really wouldn't mind, in fact i'd be quite happy.

Hold on wasn't you saying on the Billy Sharp thread you'd sell Murphy and Done for £7.5 million ? As for fishing for likes I really don't give a shit what anyone thinks of my posts they are after all just my opinion nothing more, if you are still smarting over looking stupid on the Sharp thread that is your problem I suggest you get over it and move on.

 

[Barney]

Hold on wasn't you saying on the Billy Sharp thread you'd sell Murphy and Done for £7.5 million ? As for fishing for likes I really don't give a shit what anyone thinks of my posts they are after all just my opinion nothing more, if you are still smarting over looking stupid on the Sharp thread that is your problem I suggest you get over it and move on.

It just gets better. It is possible you know, for me to have an opinion whereby I think that Murphy and Done are two of our best players, but at the same time if offered £7.5m for them I would definitely still take it. See polls I have posted.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

It just gets better. It is possible you know, for me to have an opinion whereby I think that Murphy and Done are two of our best players, but at the same time if offered £7.5m for them I would definitely still take it. See polls I have posted.

If I get offered a threesome with Kelly Brook and Kylie Minouge I'd take it but that is far more likely to happen than any football club bidding that for any of our players - ever.

 

[Barney]

If I get offered a threesome with Kelly Brook and Kylie Minouge I'd take it but that is far more likely to happen than any football club bidding that for any of our players - ever.

Exactly. That's my point. I know it's not realistic but I would definitely take it if it happened.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

fuckoff I was first

 

[finlaytheblade]

The squad is way too large. I agree. It is littered with average players and outside the stand out 5 or 6; the quality level from 7 to say 30 is minimal.

However whist Adkins has to give everyone a fresh slate from tomorrow - I would be surprised and disappointed if we did not ship out half a dozen to a dozen players before the end of the window. Getting someone to take them may be a problem but I would not be disappointed if we were to see the following move on which is 7 players. We could loan another 4 or 5 and then jury out on another 4 or 5 too.

Way I see it.

Alcock - Poor defender. Not even sure I would trust him as cover
McEveley - See above.
Collins - Time to move on. He may be championed by some on here but surely we need to be getting better if we want to finally get out of this league. If we moved on Doyle, then Collins who was even less likely to be a starter should go too
Mcfadzean - Been around a while and even at Burton was not a regular. Time to move on.
Cuvelier - Had 2 seasons at the Lane and too injury prone. Even when he has played done nothing to suggest he can be a regular first teamer.
K Wallace - Just looked woefully out of his depth
Higdon - Just a car crash for the most part. Needs to be moved on.

I honestly don't think any of the aboe are good enough to be even close to regulars for a team looking for a top 2 place. Maybe we keep a couple as squad players/cover but I would not lose any sleep if all of them went.

I would also let the following go on loan if we can but even these surely have to push on now despite relative inexperience/ages if they are going to be seen as a first teamer at SUFC and all face a critical season. None of these are like 17 or 18 now with most around 20ish.

Willis - Ended up 4th choice keeper - He needs games / a loan spell
Khan - Not pushed on last season and gone backwards I would suggest
DiMaio - As above but he needs a loan spell
McGahey - Not seen anything to suggest any genuine promise/ability that some others have had as harsh as that sounds. Was a disaster at Tranmere on loan.

They are also question marks over the following 5 for different reasons even though I would not necessarily ship them out:

Long - Will get a chance to impress but if he goes out on loan again and does not make the first team at SUFC then in his final year of his contract unsure he would remain.
Kennedy - Just too many injuries. I get the impression this season will see if he will remain in the professional game. If his knee keeps going again then he may have to pack up.
Wallace - See above
Baxter - See what he gets in terms of a ban - if it is for 6 months or more with him being in the finak year of his contract then his days could be numbered. I am not sure I would keep him long term anyway.
Campbell Ryce - I would keep him for the final year of his contract just as an impact 15-20 minute players off the bench. He could still help us at this awful standard for one season but has no real long term future at the Lane.

That is before we even get to players who still have still not totally convinced last season or looked in poor form at the end of the season:

Howard, Coutts, Scougall, McNulty, Harris

So we are left with the few who I believe to be decent/can mostly rely on:

Done, Brayford (injured), Murphy, Freeman (surprised), Flynn, Reed (ended season poorly), Basham

In short the squad is top heavy with poor players, is unbalanced and lacks pace, height. However there is still a decent group of players that if added to could be there or thereabouts for the top two but priority is two centre halves and, a leader in midfield and a goalscorer.

I think a lot of what you say Deadbat is true but maybe some of the young players do need a bit more time to mature and i think Magahey is one of those ,also lets see what Adkins can make of them all as we did finish 5th and that on the back of a poor home record with alarming gaps at centre back and centre forward.In my opinion
there is a fair amount of quality to build on.

 

[metalblade]

It just gets better. It is possible you know, for me to have an opinion whereby I think that Murphy and Done are two of our best players, but at the same time if offered £7.5m for them I would definitely still take it. See polls I have posted.

Mate let it go, when you are in a hole it's time to stop digging.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Mate let it go, when you are in a hole it's time to stop digging.

Trouble is metal, I think this one is incapable of seeing the wood for the trees. There's no point asking him to stop, he's on a roll and determined that he's right and everyone else is wrong.....oh, and if you disagree you might find that an accusation comes your way suggesting you cunningly plotted this with the intention of setting him up. Strange logic really, as I thought the whole point was for posters to make points, regardless of whether other posters agreed or not.

Never mind, we're all amateur managers here, some just a bit more amateur than others.

 

[metalblade]

Trouble is metal, I think this one is incapable of seeing the wood for the trees. There's no point asking him to stop, he's on a roll and determined that he's right and everyone else is wrong.....oh, and if you disagree you might find that an accusation comes your way suggesting you cunningly plotted this with the intention of setting him up. Strange logic really, as I thought the whole point was for posters to make points, regardless of whether other posters agreed or not.

Never mind, we're all amateur managers here, some just a bit more amateur than others.

I did ask the same question about who the replacements would be for Murphy and Done elsewhere and am still awaiting a credible answer. Now we have two polls in an attempt to prove barnyblade is right and I'm wrong, this guy takes things personal and a difference of opinion way too seriously.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I'll start by apologising for the long thread and thanking anybody who reads the thread to completion.

If in the event where NA is unable to make any adjustments to NC's somewhat awful released list, that leaves us with 33 players still in the squad. That number, by any team, in any league's standards, is too large of a number to be able to pay significant salary to a large proportion in order to attract the best players you possibly can.

Inevitably to make way for new signings, we have to offload a lot of what we have in order to get the new players in without having a squad of 37+ which anyone can see will obviously be both financially and physically unviable. There are the following ways around it:

• NA is able to adjust NC's released list and he clears out a lot of the non-worthy players.

• We sell at least the same amount of players we plan to sign, if not ideally we sell more to cut the squad size and ensure the wage bill is more densely distributed over a small number of players that are real quality, rather than a high number of players that are awful.

Each scenario seems somewhat unlikely. The first being unlikely as I doubt that contracts are able to be changed after being signed etc. and released players who have been released by NC are probably definitely not worth going after again on a free. The second scenario being unlikely reflecting on the attitude and reluctance of NA with regards to selling any players, albeit he was speaking with reference to Murphy but I suppose that reluctance to sell could well be transferred to the rest of the squad. Adding to that I just can't see 4 or 5 players being sold for one reason or another.

Without intending to come across as the negative, grumpy old codger that I seem to in many of my threads, I stress that I rather try to analyse problems we face, not that I can solve them, just as it is natural for many of us otherwise we wouldn't be using these forums would we I suppose?

In conclusion, I do think this is a great issue that we face and I like to think it needs addressing ASAP by somebody of influence at our great club.

UTB.

We don't have 33 players in the first team squad. We have about 22 "senior" players and a bunch of kids.

We probably need to offload 4 or 5 of the seniors in order to sign 4 or 5. Quite a few of the kids will probably go out on loan once Adkins has assessed them.

 

[boo radley]

Thought this thread was about Higdon, Baxter and the possible signing of Billy.

 

[grafikhaus]

I think a lot of what you say Deadbat is true but maybe some of the young players do need a bit more time to mature and i think Magahey is one of those ,also lets see what Adkins can make of them all as we did finish 5th and that on the back of a poor home record with alarming gaps at centre back and centre forward.In my opinion
there is a fair amount of quality to build on.

I'd agree. Not just needing 'a bit more time to mature', but let's give some of them a chance under NA. Clough's personality and 'tactics' stifled anybody trying something adventurous (like leaving our area when defending a corner) and Che wouldn't have thrived under Clough. Who knows what we might see from Diego? While we all want to crack on and hit the ground running, let's not throw the baby out...etc.

 

[Rodders]

Yay. More BladesMad mongery.

 

[Deleted member 875]

Yay. More BladesMad mongery.

I suppose it is cheaper for them than texting the Daily Star......