Is it time for the Wisdom of Geese #2 ???

[PeteBlade]

First para I completely agree, its all too clichéd and talking theoretically. He makes a huge point about Team Spirit, its almost as if there is none, but he has to make such an issue of it.


I had to laugh at his post Wigan comments, talking of how this could be the kick start for the season… in mid Jan.


I like the guy, don’t get me wrong, but he’s done too much PR and he’s almost American in his overly friendly approach to the Media. Of course this helps to keep them on side so that local radio and TV don’t give him a hard time.


The first comments I liked (although I couldn’t listen to them) were the post Man U comments about recovery. What I liked with Clough was his openness on some of the coaching and pre match prep. I couldn’t care less if they get on, if they like each other, if Hammond is a nice bloke, I’d rather see the results and performances on the pitch proving that something is right.


So its rare I listen to much of what he says, especially about geese and the Art of War. Footballing wise, he’s still got a long way to go to prove his point works at United. I don’t care about Scunny, S’hampton, Reading or anyone else, that was all irrelevant when he started the job here





He has inherited a squad as you say, but its one which he gave clean slates to instead of shipping out many of them. He’s not to blame for them being here when he arrived, but he’s got to take responsibility for many of them still being here and many being very comfortable, when in reality they all need to be concerned for their contracts.


And to top it all, rather than go against the tide and change the ‘mediocre journeymen’ approach, he’s added to it!


It’d be interesting to see what the average age of the starting 11 is today, compared to the side that ended the season at Swindon and the two that played Spurs and Southampton.


We can certainly say that he’s not brought in any pace, if anything he’s restricted pace by bringing slower/ less energetic players in.

How would you have gone about shipping them all out? That aren't over ripe produce.

 

[PeteBlade]

No it really isn't.
That's utterly stupid.

Bloody hell I didn't realise this was an old thread and I'd already called you out on the utterly stupid comment previously.

No need to reply.

 

[Barney]

Bloody hell I didn't realise this was an old thread and I'd already called you out on the utterly stupid comment previously.

No need to reply.

Ah, are we not with it today?

 

[PeteBlade]

Ah, are we not with it today?

No, quite frankly.. I've even taken to arguing with myself..

 

[SwissBlade]

How would you have gone about shipping them all out? That aren't over ripe produce.

It seems that Adkins has now done most of the offloading by sending them out on loan or cancelling contracts. This is what the club should've done in the summer before Adkins took over to allow Adkins the movement in the transfer market and also to give him a clean slate to work with instead of having to deal with previously identified problems.

 

[PeteBlade]

It seems that Adkins has now done most of the offloading by sending them out on loan or cancelling contracts. This is what the club should've done in the summer before Adkins took over to allow Adkins the movement in the transfer market and also to give him a clean slate to work with instead of having to deal with previously identified problems.

People over simplify the process of getting players out of the club.

It seems like this needs pointing out every week, but this isn't football manager.

 

[BushBlade]

It seems that Adkins has now done most of the offloading by sending them out on loan or cancelling contracts. This is what the club should've done in the summer before Adkins took over to allow Adkins the movement in the transfer market and also to give him a clean slate to work with instead of having to deal with previously identified problems.

Who at the club was capable of judging which players should go before we bought Adkins in?

 

[Bladesman]

People over simplify the process of getting players out of the club.

It seems like this needs pointing out every week, but this isn't football manager.

Exactly another club has to either want them plus the player has to want to leave. Collins is a good example last season when Clough wanted him out but apart from eventually going to Port Vale on loan briefly he still came back and stuck around like a barnacle. Adkins has probably been trying to offload Collins for most of this season and it's only because that offer from the US landed on his doorstep that Collins left otherwise he would still be here hanging on to the half decent wage we gave him til his contract ran out.

Plus last summer does anyone think our club were going to pay 8 to 10 players contracts up early with 12 months remaining? Epscially when we had just let binned Clough and his backroom staff.

Even on fucking FIFA I have struggled to offload some of our players and that is a bloody computer game!

 

[The Crab]

Bryan Robson took some beating. His interviews were like a verbal anesthetic.

They certainly were, but I always talk differently when I'm pissed too.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Who at the club was capable of judging which players should go before we bought Adkins in?

Exactly. The board get stick for being pretty much useless over football matters, transfers etc, but are now expected to trim the staff without the assistance of a manager.

Another reason why it's a daft idea is that Barney suggested it in his earliest posts. I rest my case.

 

[SwissBlade]

People over simplify the process of getting players out of the club.

It seems like this needs pointing out every week, but this isn't football manager.

Of course, its a football forum, so we are all guilty of over simplifying the process and we need to take things like this with a pinch of salt, however, the point was that the squad needed trimming of attitudes as much as poor quality players, arguably more so. It also doesn't detract from the fact that it can be done, had the club wanted to reduce the squad size in the summer of last year, it would've done. We all know the club is great at moving players on. Certain players have longer contracts, but others can be naturally disposed of (through buy outs, loan deals etc)

Who at the club was capable of judging which players should go before we bought Adkins in?

Clough, Morgan etc there were others in place prior to Adkins coming in. We know that a retained list was produced at the end of the season, before Clough left and there will be others in the Club that know which characters weren't really suited to the new regime. Given Jim Phipps' comments in October it was clear that they had ignored a number of the bigger issues and apportioned the blame to where it suited. Very much sweeping the big issues under the carpet and the PR campaign was in full flow to push things like "wisdom of geese", "clean slates" and "honest hard working bunch of lads". Its become very clear as the season has progressed that these sound bites have been toned down.

It once again highlights the need to have a football man on the board so that in the event of sacking a manager there is someone in place who's tracking the squad progress (quantity, types of players, injuries, contract durations, player values, attitudes, progression from academy to 1st team etc)

 

[BushBlade]

Of course, its a football forum, so we are all guilty of over simplifying the process and we need to take things like this with a pinch of salt, however, the point was that the squad needed trimming of attitudes as much as poor quality players, arguably more so. It also doesn't detract from the fact that it can be done, had the club wanted to reduce the squad size in the summer of last year, it would've done. We all know the club is great at moving players on. Certain players have longer contracts, but others can be naturally disposed of (through buy outs, loan deals etc)




Clough, Morgan etc there were others in place prior to Adkins coming in. We know that a retained list was produced at the end of the season, before Clough left and there will be others in the Club that know which characters weren't really suited to the new regime. Given Jim Phipps' comments in October it was clear that they had ignored a number of the bigger issues and apportioned the blame to where it suited. Very much sweeping the big issues under the carpet and the PR campaign was in full flow to push things like "wisdom of geese", "clean slates" and "honest hard working bunch of lads". Its become very clear as the season has progressed that these sound bites have been toned down.

It once again highlights the need to have a football man on the board so that in the event of sacking a manager there is someone in place who's tracking the squad progress (quantity, types of players, injuries, contract durations, player values, attitudes, progression from academy to 1st team etc)

Agree to a point but had Clough gone through the full list of players still under contract and said 'we need to get rid of (for example) McNulty, Scougall, Higdon etc' and if he did, is it not possible that the board ignored what Clough had said in the belief that they may redeem themselves under Adkins?

Maybe Brannigan knew but was overruled? Or maybe he said they were all worth keeping?

To move the players on, we would have had to pay money, either in paying up contracts or subsidising wages during loan periods. No one wants our crap for the wages we're paying them. Perhaps the board were unwilling to do that before they'd be properly assessed by Adkins.

 

[SwissBlade]

Agree to a point but had Clough gone through the full list of players still under contract and said 'we need to get rid of (for example) McNulty, Scougall, Higdon etc' and if he did, is it not possible that the board ignored what Clough had said in the belief that they may redeem themselves under Adkins?

Maybe Brannigan knew but was overruled? Or maybe he said they were all worth keeping?

To move the players on, we would have had to pay money, either in paying up contracts or subsidising wages during loan periods. No one wants our crap for the wages we're paying them. Perhaps the board were unwilling to do that before they'd be properly assessed by Adkins.

I'd be extremely surprised if Clough didn't want to get rid of Collins and JCR. But i would imagine that the Board saw fit to keep them because of their 'value'

 

[BushBlade]

I'd be extremely surprised if Clough didn't want to get rid of Collins and JCR. But i would imagine that the Board saw fit to keep them because of their 'value'

Exactly. Or there were no takers.

 

[SwissBlade]

Exactly. Or there were no takers.

possibly, however, given Phipps' comments related to Clough falling out with players like Butler, Collins and JCR, i think it is more likely that the club decided to retain the latter two after Clough had departed because they knew best.