If Wilder is sacked….

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KMC-1889 said:
It’s worth repeating again that other clubs took a gamble in the summer with managers, didn’t work out, made a change and are doing better than we are.

Norwich and Southampton both went for younger head coaches, gave them time to try and make it work, replaced them and have finished the season miles ahead of us.

Just because Selles was the wrong choice, and we botched another transfer window doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be looking for a new manager.
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Wilder is a very experienced manager at this level. He has been very successful in his career at this level overall. That has to count for something.

Wilder had one transfer window this time and it was January which is the worst one. We have to back him with whatever limited funds we have available this summer and I think things will turn around.

The right thing to do was to keep Wilder last summer and back him. We didn't do that and are in a right mess now.

We need a manager with a lot of nouse, guts and an eye for a deal now as the transfer kitty aint there anymore. Who do you think could do the job of getting us near promotion in this predicament?
 



sufc323 said:
From an article in the YP when Wilder MK1 left:

Yorkshire Live has been told that the names the board suggested were: Thomas Soucek before he joined West Ham; Victor Osimhen, now at Napoli; Jonathan David, now at Lille; Leandro Trossard, now at Brighton; Timothy Castagne, now at Leicester; Jhon Lucumí, Genk; Moisés Caicedo, now at Brighton.

Wilder has been approached by Yorkshire Live for a comment on the claims, but says 'he can't' respond for now.

However, it is understood he took exception to the fact that the board were recommending players, and felt that that interference reduced his role as manager to one akin to a head coach, which he often referred to in the press conferences prior to his exit.
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Wasn't this in part when Wilder left and the Prince was kinda doing damage limitations? I remember thinking it felt a bit like dirty laundry being aired as there was quite a bit of heat on him at that time.

Thing is with our recruitment whilst Wilder hasn't been manager too it's not like it's loads better. Again like I said above it's a mixed bag across the board.

Under Selles it was shocking to say how we've spent pretty decent sums on players that are making very little contribution right now. Are we really quite happy with any that were signed last summer? Bindon on loan? Tanganga will hopefully come good for what we paid for him.
Under Slav we did get MGW on loan through the door. But we also signed Robin Olsen. We didn't have much transfer activity for those two seasons first back down though. In fact very little ins first season down.
Under Hecky times Anel, Hamer, Doyle and McAtee on loan come to mind as good signings and Souza too across 2 seasons. But then we also brought in Luke Thomas, Trusty, Larouchi and even Traore. R.Khadra didn't work out either.

I remember the Soucek one been mentioned. How likely some of the others would have been when we were in for them vs the clubs they went to though?
I also remember it being mentioned under Wilder we opted for Ramsdale over Martinez. Again how likely would it have been we would have pipped Villa at the time?
Villa also pipped us to M.Cash and Watkins and our back up targets of J.Bogle and Brewster were signed.
 
CPB said:
If we only talk in full championship seasons then doesn't it read:
17-18 = 10th (First season up)
19-20 = 2nd
24-25 = 3rd

If you read it like that it looks actually quite good.
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I was purely talking about how many games he's managed in the Championship.

It's not that many for a manager who's pushing 60.

It's not even that many more than people like Carrick and Lampard who are 10+ years younger than him.
 
He’s not going because will end up going through bad manager after bad manager and them lot will end up above us.


Shit Thread Closed
 
Gavlar said:
We broke free at the start of the season and appointed Selles. It was an unmitigated disaster. We are where we are because of that. If Wilder stays last summer, we have another decent season.

That's not to say Wilder is the messiah and shouldn't be questioned. If it doesn't work after the summer and about 15-20 games into next season, he should be gone.
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Do we have to stomach another half season of him we just need a change and I don’t mean an AI appointment
 
CPB said:
If we only talk in full championship seasons then doesn't it read:
17-18 = 10th (First season up)
19-20 = 2nd
24-25 = 3rd

If you read it like that it looks actually quite good.
Click to expand...
It's a good record, but for a quite different point to that being made.
Those stats could support the statement that "Wilder has been a [successful/top half] manager at this level", but not "Wilder is a very experienced manager at this level".
 
Houston_Blade said:
I see this mentioned a lot regarding Bettis’ lack of football knowledge.

I wonder how many CEO’s of other clubs have the experiences he’s had? Off the top of my head:

Relegations, management changes, club ownership changes, promotions, dozens of player transfers in and out, new training ground, refinancing, League 1, Championship and PL, points deductions, embargoes.

It’s a pretty decent list of experiences and I’d imagine having 8 years plus in the role he’s learned a fair bit.

How many years does he need to be ‘experienced’ in football?

I’m far from a Bettis Fan but I think he gets a lot of stick for no reason at times.
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But but but Snake, sssss, Snake, waffle, nonsense, snake.

He's an easy target mate. Half the people round these parts don't even know what CEO stands for, let alone understand how the role operates.

Think he's one of those that gets dogs abuse, but 6 months after he's gone, we'll start to appreciate what he did....
 
He appears to be the driver of the recruiting the bargain basement deadline day signings. Rendering no time for the newbies to contribute until 6-8 games into the season. We buy the unwanted ones who accept the reduced wage under the pretence of kissing the badge.
So maybe swapping him out is cheaper than sacking Wilder again.
 
PeterNdlovu081 said:
I was purely talking about how many games he's managed in the Championship.

It's not that many for a manager who's pushing 60.

It's not even that many more than people like Carrick and Lampard who are 10+ years younger than him.
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I was being slightly facetious.
Although also finding it interesting that each time he has done a pre season and seen in through to it's end that's the results.

He did of course have around 1 year at Boro. Where he did pretty well after taking over from Warnock but then started the season after fairly poorly.
Watford was a hiding to nothing.

Suppose when you compare to Lampard and Carrick. Difference there is they are two very well known former international players. Who got their first jobs in the 2nd tier. Wilder started non league and was there for a while.
Different journeys but I don't think it matters in that sense.

Carrick and in particular Lampard have done well though. Lampard I feel is showing he is a bit adaptable too. Didn't do bad with Derby (though had money). Did ok with Chelsea at first. Saved Everton and now taking up Coventry.
 
Houston_Blade said:
I see this mentioned a lot regarding Bettis’ lack of football knowledge.

I wonder how many CEO’s of other clubs have the experiences he’s had? Off the top of my head:

Relegations, management changes, club ownership changes, promotions, dozens of player transfers in and out, new training ground, refinancing, League 1, Championship and PL, points deductions, embargoes.

It’s a pretty decent list of experiences and I’d imagine having 8 years plus in the role he’s learned a fair bit.

How many years does he need to be ‘experienced’ in football?

I’m far from a Bettis Fan but I think he gets a lot of stick for no reason at times.
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He's signed off on some utterly crap recruitment by both Wilder & Selles.
The kind of recruitment that most ordinary fans can smell as poo from a mile away.
If he had anything about him , he'd not have done that , but in Wilder's case , he is just so close to him that he can't exert any control.
And there's no one else to stop these car-crash signings happening.
The business model is apparently a combination of growing young talent and successful player-trading.
The young-talent is doing its bit but the player-trading has been catastrophic for years.
Leaving us with a relatively crap squad after 7 years of £.
From which we'll have to sell the young talent to survive and are powerless to do anything about the others coz they're all on a downward trajectory , on lucrative contracts which makes them untradable , or about to disappear for nowt.
Anyone assessing our performance as a business in recent years would have to put us in the "shitshow" category.
And the CEO has been ....
 



Please don’t kill me for this suggestion but could Wilder take a Derek Dooley role advising the board in a couple of years?
It’s just a thought that I’d be interested for folk to consider?
 
Silent Blade said:
I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.
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Like wise I'm fed up of people dismissing the idea without proper reasoning.

We must be 1 of only 5/6 clubs in the top two leagues who don't have a DOF or Sporting Director.

Who knows, had we had one last summer we wouldn't be in the mess we are.

So much of our infrastructure is neglected. It shouldn't be entirely on the Manager/Head Coach to sort either.
 
HeCanDoMagic said:
Like wise I'm fed up of people dismissing the idea without proper reasoning.

We must be 1 of only 5/6 clubs in the top two leagues who don't have a DOF or Sporting Director.

Who knows, had we had one last summer we wouldn't be in the mess we are.

So much of our infrastructure is neglected. It shouldn't be entirely on the Manager/Head Coach to sort either.
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We kind of had a DoF last Summer. It was James Bord who persuaded the board to sack Wilder and then recommended the players we signed!

I dont think our board would pick the right DoF if we are going to have one also Wilder doesnt want interference when deciding who we are going to sign and sell.
 
Keen Blade said:
He's signed off on some utterly crap recruitment by both Wilder & Selles.
The kind of recruitment that most ordinary fans can smell as poo from a mile away.
If he had anything about him , he'd not have done that , but in Wilder's case , he is just so close to him that he can't exert any control.
And there's no one else to stop these car-crash signings happening.
The business model is apparently a combination of growing young talent and successful player-trading.
The young-talent is doing its bit but the player-trading has been catastrophic for years.
Leaving us with a relatively crap squad after 7 years of £.
From which we'll have to sell the young talent to survive and are powerless to do anything about the others coz they're all on a downward trajectory , on lucrative contracts which makes them untradable , or about to disappear for nowt.
Anyone assessing our performance as a business in recent years would have to put us in the "shitshow" category.
And the CEO has been ....
Click to expand...


Yet another repeat post. Much of which you’ve already backtracked on on the basis of “l didn’t know”. Which is odd with a claim you appear to have made recently.

Any shit show stems from poor decision making by a succession of owners, their senior employees - assuming they’ve been given carte Blanche which in the real football world is unlikely, Red Wine Robbo and Turry apart, managerial decisions and apparent poor scouting which has decimated the monies successes have earned. It’s not down to one man. It can’t be. It’s a ridiculous notion.

The one ongoing positive is the academy. Thank God.
 
sufc323 said:
But this was 15 - 20 years ago, look how far football has come on since. Without a DoF, there is no long term strategy or planning, and we're only as good as the current manager with no thought of what happens when they go. When we sign players on 3-4 year contracts, there surely has to be a thought that they will probably outlast the manager, so are we targeting the right kind of players and managers that will suit each other or just having a scattergun approach and hoping for the best?



It was Bettis himself who described himself as an accountant in a fans Q&A, so unless he was deflecting blame from himself for the disastrous summer we've just had, it appears he has little influence on the footballing side of things.
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Which is exactly what's missing when managers like Wilder & Selles are allowed to commit big bucks to poor recruits.
So Bettis can't have it both ways : he's either :
A. a non-football bean-counter and thus escapes responsibility
(which means we need a DoF for long-term influence on the football side and to exert some control over managers)
OR
B. the managers actually DO report to him coz they come under his aegis as CEO ,
in which case the dreadful waste of our PL & parachute money over 7 years , culminating in our possession of an awful squad relative to the £ that's poured through us like a sieve ,
is actually his responsibility ,
And he therefore needs either :
C. Sacking
OR
D. recognition that the job is too big for any man , so needs a DoF to take responsibility for the football side off him.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Yet another repeat post. Much of which you’ve already backtracked on on the basis of “l didn’t know”. Which is odd with a claim you appear to have made recently.

Any shit show stems from poor decision making by a succession of owners, their senior employees - assuming they’ve been given carte Blanche which in the real football world is unlikely, Red Wine Robbo and Turry apart, managerial decisions and apparent poor scouting which has decimated the monies successes have earned. It’s not down to one man. It can’t be. It’s a ridiculous notion.

The one ongoing positive is the academy. Thank God.
Click to expand...
My quibble is not with Bettis as a person but with the structure in which he operates - he seems to reject the notion of controlling the managers decisions on the football side , so is it really just Wilders personal fiefdom , especially under the new owners ?
The question of where the buck stops is so unclear.
 
Keen Blade said:
My quibble is not with Bettis as a person but with the structure in which he operates - he seems to reject the notion of controlling the managers decisions on the football side , so is it really just Wilders personal fiefdom , especially under the new owners ?
The question of where the buck stops is so unclear.
Click to expand...


Structures you suggest that you have no evidence of.

You’ve gone from him running everything including football matters to him possibly now simply being Wilders lackey. Which would suggest it’s actually him the owners have rolled over to. No joined up thinking there.

The buck stops with the owners and their appointments.
 
Silent Blade said:
We kind of had a DoF last Summer. It was James Bord who persuaded the board to sack Wilder and then recommended the players we signed!

I dont think our board would pick the right DoF if we are going to have one also Wilder doesnt want interference when deciding who we are going to sign and sell.
Click to expand...
James Bord wasn't a director of football at all.

Wilder might also benefit from having some interference/input into signings.
 
Silent Blade said:
I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.
Click to expand...
DoF or similar role (Technical Director maybe) is supposed to be a long term guy that helps choose the managers to fit the ethos and the players/academy players.

How you appoint a good one that wants to stay long term, great question, maybe with some luck.
 
He’s not going anywhere, he’s got 1 season to show what he can do, after that it will be the end of the wilder era, we’ll have gone full circle in 10 years.
 
10p said:
Please don’t kill me for this suggestion but could Wilder take a Derek Dooley role advising the board in a couple of years?
It’s just a thought that I’d be interested for folk to consider?
Click to expand...
It’s a good idea in principle that would keep the wilder shaggers happy but it’s undone by the slight issue of wilder’s horrendous track record of recruitment, coaching, youth development and fitness.
 



Keen Blade said:
He's signed off on some utterly crap recruitment by both Wilder & Selles.
The kind of recruitment that most ordinary fans can smell as poo from a mile away.
If he had anything about him , he'd not have done that , but in Wilder's case , he is just so close to him that he can't exert any control.
And there's no one else to stop these car-crash signings happening.
The business model is apparently a combination of growing young talent and successful player-trading.
The young-talent is doing its bit but the player-trading has been catastrophic for years.
Leaving us with a relatively crap squad after 7 years of £.
From which we'll have to sell the young talent to survive and are powerless to do anything about the others coz they're all on a downward trajectory , on lucrative contracts which makes them untradable , or about to disappear for nowt.
Anyone assessing our performance as a business in recent years would have to put us in the "shitshow" category.
And the CEO has been ....
Click to expand...
Bettis’ job is to do the deals though, not identify good footballers. Seems some people just like moaning about him.
 
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