If Wilder is sacked….

[54yrblade]

Via another source so not 'ITK'.

 

[brownblade]

Give Chris 26/27 but have a strong shortlist of managerial targets planned and sounded out way before the end of next season. Hire a Director of Football and/or similar ASAP now.

 

[Silent Blade]

Leicester City have a DOF and had 3/4 managers this season, they can't even beat Sheffield Wednesday.
That with a team full of ex PL players.

Why people think appointing new managers/DOF's will transform us I have no idea.

I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.

 

[Silent Blade]

It has to come from the owners.
What is their plan ?
Is it REALLY for PL ? For more than one painful season ?
Have they yet acquired ANY nouse , about UK Soccer ball , with which to identify what's required to achieve it ?
Can't they see that bumbling along with Wilder and the current structure might keep the Wilderettes happy , but will NEVER get them closer to their objective.
The whole staff of the club has reached the end of a cycle and is stale , like last week's bread.
This is the perennial problem with remote owners , if you don't have a credible business structure in place , under which performance & progress can be monitored.
Remote owners can't sense what's going on from a distance.
Wilder can keep telling them
"You have to do a lot of things right to win a tight game of football"
and they are forced to swallow it till the cows come home.
They have no means to cross-examine him.
RS interviews don't help them coz the sycophantic feckers never ask the killer questions which fans pose on here.
As a criminal barrister , used to polite but incisive questioning , I am grinding my teeth in frustration at the lack of journalistic enquiry.
From another angle , it is heartening to see some non-parachute clubs at the top - but we've HAD that £ and we've now failed twice to get back up , and the tap's turned off.
However much I love the club and however much I sing & shout , that's a relative failure in anyone's book.
Whether it's Wilder in or Wilder out , I'm just aching for the owners to "get a grip" because imo they're fiddling while Rome burns.
And their populist "bladey bladey line" with Wilder for life followed by Sharp , is deeply disturbing.

 

[Sean Thornton]

View attachment 234617

“As a criminal barrister , used to polite but incisive questioning , I am grinding my teeth in frustration at the lack of journalistic enquiry”

Am l reading this correctly?

 

[Loco Blade]

Unless you change everything change nothing

 

[Silky Sabella]

“As a criminal barrister , used to polite but incisive questioning , I am grinding my teeth in frustration at the lack of journalistic enquiry”

Am l reading this correctly?

You are reading this so correctly, the jury verdict is 12.0 .

 

[Carlton Blade]

I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.

Because they are 2 very different jobs and trusting the long term future of the club to a person whose job security is directly tied to the short term is a sure way to ruin that future.

Longterm planning/sustainability, and short term performance are not the same job.

On top of that, the sheer volume of work required now makes it unrealistic for one person to do everything well.

 

[SB_90]

i have said before. that when the time comes Bo Svensson, a youngish manager at 46, from germany & seems like the german wilder from 1st stint plays 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2. & did miracle job at mainz.

he seems like a punt. but whether he would come to us. who knows. but leeds & rangers apparently had him on their recent shortlists

 

[jt64]

I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.

They don't need to agree. Part of the point is the separation of responsibility, and a redefinition of roles - the coach gets on with coaching, the DoF gets on with recruiting. The coach can say we need a striker, for sure, the DoF will get one if it is an actual need. The coach saying get me Danny Ings would instead be told we're not buying damaged goods and stick to your job

 

[Silent Blade]

They don't need to agree. Part of the point is the separation of responsibility, and a redefinition of roles - the coach gets on with coaching, the DoF gets on with recruiting. The coach can say we need a striker, for sure, the DoF will get one if it is an actual need. The coach saying get me Danny Ings would instead be told we're not buying damaged goods and stick to your job

Because they are 2 very different jobs and trusting the long term future of the club to a person whose job security is directly tied to the short term is a sure way to ruin that future.

Longterm planning/sustainability, and short term performance are not the same job.

On top of that, the sheer volume of work required now makes it unrealistic for one person to do everything well.

Didnt work well at some clubs. Dont think it would work for us. We had similar last summer. James Bord recommended some players for us, our head coach Selles managed our team badly.

Remember Jan Van Winckel... He was a waste of time and money..,,

 

[jt64]

Didnt work well at some clubs. Dont think it would work for us. We had similar last summer. James Bord recommended some players for us, our head coach Selles managed our team badly.

Remember Jan Van Winckel... He was a waste of time and money..,,

Which players brought in on a permanent in the summer were intended to make an immediate impact on the starting lineup?

 

[LBA_Blade]

i have said before. that when the time comes Bo Svensson, a youngish manager at 46, from germany & seems like the german wilder from 1st stint plays 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2. & did miracle job at mainz.

he seems like a punt. but whether he would come to us. who knows. but leeds & rangers apparently had him on their recent shortlists

Downside just signing as of 30th March with Copenhagen

 

[Carlton Blade]

Didnt work well at some clubs. Dont think it would work for us. We had similar last summer. James Bord recommended some players for us, our head coach Selles managed our team badly.

Remember Jan Van Winckel... He was a waste of time and money..,,

How was it similar last summer? In what way was any long term planning done? There is a lot more to a DoF/Sporting Director than signing players in one window.

You've named a poker player and one ex-manager and decided that having experienced, talented, knowledgeable football people at United won't work, specifically for this club. Is there a reason that United wouldn't be better off with more good staff and defined hierarchy ?

 

[Silent Blade]

Which players brought in on a permanent in the summer were intended to make an immediate impact on the starting lineup?

Looking at the signings in the below photo, McGuinness, Matos, Chong, Tanganga, Polendakov and Zatterstrom were signed on long contracts. So far out of the 6 signings on long contracts Wilder has picked only Tanganga regularly. As for the 5 loans, only Bindon has been a regular since December.

Just two regulars out of 14 signings! A disaster under Bord and Selles recruitment!


Wilder's two signings (Bamford and Riedewald) are bigger impacts for us. His other permanent signing (Rothwell) hasnt had the chance to play more games so I am not judging him yet. Wilder has signed three players on loan but cant see Hoever and Hjelde playing for us next season.

 

[Silent Blade]

How was it similar last summer? In what way was any long term planning done? There is a lot more to a DoF/Sporting Director than signing players in one window.

You've named a poker player and one ex-manager and decided that having experienced, talented, knowledgeable football people at United won't work, specifically for this club. Is there a reason that United wouldn't be better off with more good staff and defined hierarchy ?

Name a good DoF who would work well for us on the wages and the budget we can afford!

 

[jt64]

Looking at the signings in the below photo, McGuinness, Matos, Chong, Tanganga, Polendakov and Zatterstrom were signed on long contracts. So far out of the 6 signings on long contracts Wilder has picked only Tanganga regularly.

McGuinness was clearly cover, and as we've neglected to make any sort of serious attempt to strengthen centre back on a serious basis I'm not going to criticise that one. Matos I don't know but he would have been sought by a lot of clubs at our level regardless of how their football operations operate - probably not expected to start. Chong is clearly a rotation option at best. Tanganga is starting. Poelndakov was a development signing. Zatterstrom I was hoping would have done more but bringing in so many centre backs has kind of put the kaibosh on that, and I think in any case he would have been first choice back up. So, to summarise, the only one that should have been starting (which was my fucking question) is starting, the rest you are just throwing under the bus and/or blaming how they were recruited

 

[Carlton Blade]

Name a good DoF who would work well for us on the wages and the budget we can afford!

You don’t fix structural problems by naming a magic individual. You fix them by separating roles with conflicting incentives.

If the argument is “we can’t afford proper structure,” then we definitely can’t afford to keep making the mistakes that come from asking one person to perform above what is reasonable to expect indefinitely.

 

[SB_90]

Downside just signing as of 30th March with Copenhagen

ah I wasn't aware, thats a shame. if he does well he's out of our range

 

[Brynner]

Obviously some DOF's have been disastrous, same as managers, coaches, CEO's, recruitment, players etc. The objective is to make the right appointments, never an easy task.

My concern with COH is that they seem devoid of any serious knowledge or competence concerning football, or English football in particular. Who have they had or aided them with advice in all matters football, both before acquiring United and there afterwards? It beggars belief it was solely the poker player Bord. Perhaps it was Des Taylor, but he seemed to disappear from the equation.

Bettis is purely an accountant with seemingly limited football knowledge. It can't have involved him in sacking Wilder, bearing in mind their close links. The decision to appoint Selles proved to be a disaster on all accounts, with the similarly disastrous recruitment of the time. Then the panic of the re-appointment of Wilder. We then have the case of the tail wagging the dog. I can remember Dave Bassett having the benefit and advice of a proper football man in Derek Dooley as a director to help him.

COH haven't seemingly made any serious attempt to get anybody on those lines, to help them to formulate and follow any specific plan, short, medium or long term. It would have seemed prudent to initially appoint an experienced football man as DOF (hopefully a successful one) in line with their aims. Then for him to aid them in appointing the right manager or coach, recruitment team etc. to follow and achieve those aims, once they decided to sack Wilder.

Unfortunately it seems one bad decision after another. I can't honestly see much confidence going forward, but will blindly renew my season ticket as per usual. I gave up years ago of United ever achieving anything. Once a Blade always a Blade, but why oh why .

 

[fleckagainagainagain…]

I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.

The most simple version of a DoF would be “football person who’s good at finding good managers and appointing them”. Do you not agree that’s something we’re lacking, based on recent history?

Wilder and Bettis don’t/can’t do that for obvious reasons.

Name a good DoF who would work well for us on the wages and the budget we can afford!

Kristjaan Speakman who just left Sunderland. Joined them in league 1 and made 3/4 good manager appointments in quick succession, got them 2 promotions (had one clanger with Beale, but he fixed it quickly with Le Bris). Bought and sold well in the championship over several years to self-fund a promotion push without much investment from the owner. Pretty much exactly the blueprint we need now.

In reality though we should interview at least 3-5 candidates and properly work out who’s out there, including

• Anyone with a track record of improving a L1/champ club over the past few years
• Ambitious deputies/assistants at PL clubs looking to step up, with experience of how modern well-run clubs are set up

 

[Houston_Blade]

If we look for a manager from abroad here are a few suggestions with managerial/ coaching experience; Axel Smeets,
Laurens Ten Heuvel, Roger Nilsen, Jonas Wirmola and Carl Veart. Hans Segers could be our goalkeeping coach and Georges Santos head scout. All these not only should please those in favour of looking abroad but keep our Bladey Blades onside as well as they will get the club.

I bet Monty has Aussie kids, does he class as foreign?!

 

[Houston_Blade]

Bettis is purely an accountant with seemingly limited football knowledge.

I see this mentioned a lot regarding Bettis’ lack of football knowledge.

I wonder how many CEO’s of other clubs have the experiences he’s had? Off the top of my head:

Relegations, management changes, club ownership changes, promotions, dozens of player transfers in and out, new training ground, refinancing, League 1, Championship and PL, points deductions, embargoes.

It’s a pretty decent list of experiences and I’d imagine having 8 years plus in the role he’s learned a fair bit.

How many years does he need to be ‘experienced’ in football?

I’m far from a Bettis Fan but I think he gets a lot of stick for no reason at times.

 

[Silent Blade]

The most simple version of a DoF would be “football person who’s good at finding good managers and appointing them”. Do you not agree that’s something we’re lacking, based on recent history?

Wilder and Bettis don’t/can’t do that for obvious reasons.



Kristjaan Speakman who just left Sunderland. Joined them in league 1 and made 3/4 good manager appointments in quick succession, got them 2 promotions (had one clanger with Beale, but he fixed it quickly with Le Bris). Bought and sold well in the championship over several years to self-fund a promotion push without much investment from the owner. Pretty much exactly the blueprint we need now.

In reality though we should interview at least 3-5 candidates and properly work out who’s out there, including

• Anyone with a track record of improving a L1/champ club over the past few years
• Ambitious deputies/assistants at PL clubs looking to step up, with experience of how modern well-run clubs are set up

Never heard of Speakman and I dont really take notice of the DoFs at other clubs but notice that a lot of them keep hiring and sacking managers!

 

[Kev Gee]

Im not sure I would give Wilder another year going on the last few weeks performances. Relegation form again.....

But we need a Main man overseeing and linking everything. A DOF type that reports directly into the owners.

I dont care on the nationality. Just get it right FFS.

 

[metalblade]

We do need a "football" man in the boardroom as others have said a Derek Dooley type. Looking at the board of directors none of them will have much of a clue when it comes to making a successful English football club. Along with Bettis we have Hollywood director Joe Rosen, Len Komoroski former CEO of Cleveland Cavaliers whoever the phuck they are and businessman Terry Ahern. Not a very inspiring crew with a huge knowledge of the English game you would think. We certainly need some talent at boardroom level who knows how football works to link that side of things to the money men otherwise they will continue to make mistakes like the Sellés appointment and the re-appointment of Wilder. Does such a person need the title of DOF?

 

[tyke1889]

Loretta incoming as new manager

Is she better?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Football is different. What once worked, structure strict rules defensively etc now needs the playersmJing more decisions. Individual coaching is more important than ever.

 

[luffenhamblade]

I agree with you, fed up of reading "Know it alls" banging about DoFs thinking they will improve the club. Why pay two huge wages to the DoF and the head coach who are unlikely to agree on the type of players we need to sign and sell.

If Wilder chooses to go (or next season is a disaster), then we need a complete rethink, but just forcing a DoF will do nothing but cause further confusion and division across the club. However, we do need to have really solid plans (not people) in place for the next steps post-Wilder to avoid the complete shower we had last summer.

 

[Silent Blade]

We do need a "football" man in the boardroom as others have said a Derek Dooley type. Looking at the board of directors none of them will have much of a clue when it comes to making a successful English football club. Along with Bettis we have Hollywood director Joe Rosen, Len Komoroski former CEO of Cleveland Cavaliers whoever the phuck they are and businessman Terry Ahern. Not a very inspiring crew with a huge knowledge of the English game you would think. We certainly need some talent at boardroom level who knows how football works to link that side of things to the money men otherwise they will continue to make mistakes like the Sellés appointment and the re-appointment of Wilder. Does such a person need the title of DOF?

We had Terry Robinson and Julian Winter as the "Football man" in the boardroom too. Neither were successful. Steve Bettis had more success than them.

There is no guarantee that having a DoF will improve us. Looking at the other clubs that have a DoF, a lot of them keep hiring and sacking managers.