If anyone from United is reading .....

[MobileBlade]

Not sure if anyone from United will actually read this but I thought I would try to put in to words a summary of things that I have seen happen. I'm not going all Lenesque or anything but I thought I would share!

Those who know me will know that I am not a critic of the Blades as general rule and, in this world of "realists" and "clappers", I am probably more of a "clapper".!!

However ......

I first went to a game circa 1971 and I got my first season ticket in 1974-75 season when I was in the BLUT with my grandad and mother! Over the years since that time I have moved to the John Street Terrace (both sides!), the South Stand and then since its opening the new John Street Stand.

This season for the first time in 36 years I did not renew my season ticket.

There were a number of reasons for this. However, the main two, in no particular order:

1. I found it hard to justify paying out £419 or whatever it was to watch the basic rubbish I had seen last season (probably count on one hand the number of HALFS that would conteract this) - a price that has virtually doubled over the last six years or so

2. For the past 10 years or so I have had junior tickets for my sons. The eldest became no longer eligible for the free ticket so I found it even harder to justify paying for both mine and his - particularly as he was not enjoying it either.

Over the years I have probably seen some bigger rubbish than that last season - however the price in those days was pence to enter! I was on the JST BL end when Givens missed "that penalty". I cried. I remember the McEwan era - God that was tosh.

In the mid 80's I used to go home and away. I remember one awful night at Shrewsbury seeing us lose in particular!

Recently I started to go to fewer away games but still went to quite a few.

For this season, I thought, I would pick and choose. I have so far managed Scunthorpe at home and Bristol City away. Zero goals scored, 7 conceded.

Anyway, my point.

You would have thought that a normal organisation that loses a customer of 36 years standing would try to find out why. Now I appreciate that football is not a normal business, but you would still have thought the club would be looking at why they lost so many season tickets, in particular the longer standing ones.

So my contact with the club this season:

1. A phone call from them asking if I would like to buy some deal of half dozen tickets for £100 or something at the appointment of Speed.

2. A marketing leaflet from them saying they would welcome me back to a game for £10 if I took this leaflet to the ticket office by 7pm the day before the game. I received the leaflet at 6 pm the day before the game

3. A leaflet offering me half a season ticket with a "free" game.

4. A phone call last evening from a nice young guy promoting the half season ticket.

It was this last one that has prompted me to write this. I had started to explain to him that after 36 years I had not had a season ticket this year. At this point, I got cut off. Did I get call back? Absolutely not.

I appreciate that many people who took season tickets during the promotion season and subsequent Premier League reason will not now have renewed. However, there are many that have been more long standing than that. I think my biggest gripe is the club appears to have done nothing to look at these and look at keeping these customers.

I would look to know the retention and churn rates that the club have suffered based by length of being a customer.

It seems crazy that they are not even trying to find out why and what they could do to retain (and I am not talking about giving free tickets or anything like that but just genuinely looking at the issue).

I know some people will try and come out with the big blade lark and all that but that is not the purpose of this post.

I am trying to be help the club understand - but their marketing of late has just disappeared with absolutely no understanding of their customer base and workings. It just seems so sad that they seem not to care.

 

[SwissBlade]

Not sure if anyone from United will actually read this but I thought I would try to put in to words a summary of things that I have seen happen. I'm not going all Lenesque or anything but I thought I would share!

Looks like a case for BIFF!

 

[lenners]

Sad to hear that Mobile but tallies with other similar stories from long-standing season ticket holders.
I'm afraid the notion of United caring about its supporters has gone and will not return until we get a change of ownership.

 

[Micalijo]

Thing is what could they have done to keep you?

Give you a ticket for £200 whilst we all pay the £420 or whatever it was?

I understand how you feel, it is painful watching us at the moment but I se this very simply - namely you have decided to stop going.

I don't want football to be about marketing. It shouldn't be about marketing. You either want to go or you don't. You know the price, you know we have a shit squad and had a shit manager and you made a decision.

I'm not quite with you Mobile I'm afraid in terms of criticising the club for not doing enough to keep you when you appear to have simply decided to not bother going.

 

[Northyorksblade]

I am similar to you, but DID get a ST this season. Next season probably won't bother, an absolutely unthinkable thing as recently as 4 seasons ago. Will probably still put aside Saturdays to listen to the games. It's no fun anymore, not exciting, never get that knot in the stomach on the morning of the game. You know we're not going to buy/loan anyone to excite. And you also get to realise that actually the club just don't care about the fans. It doesn't feel like my family anymore. Sad, but that's how it is for me. The affair is over.

 

[Bristol Blade]

Does anyone know how many season tickets we sold this year? Assuming we sold about 15,000 (which could be very optimistic, I'm not sure) at an average of £400 each, having reduced the price to £350 at the start of the season would have seen us lose £750,000. In order to cover these losses, we would have needed to sell about an extra 2100 tickets.
This doesn't seem a huge amount more to sell, especially given that we must have lost roughly this amount over the last couple of seasons through poeple not renewing. But given the economic times, £350 must still seem like too much to a lot of people, and I guess United decided that dropping the prices was too big a risk.

 

[Worksop II]

I have had 2 phone calls from SUFC, one Monday tea-time and one Tuesday tea-time.

"Do you want to talk to em ?"

NO, I am aving mi tea

You are right Mic, I have decided not to go, and to be honest if I cant get off mi arse to go to the phone, I aint gonna get to BDTBL.

Some have stopped listening.

I might ave sumat to say tonite if they disturb mi tea again ...........

 

[JJ Sefton]

I'm afraid the notion of United caring about its supporters has gone and will not return until we get a change of ownership.

I must have missed it the first time round.

 

[lenners]

Thing is what could they have done to keep you?

Give you a ticket for £200 whilst we all pay the £420 or whatever it was?

I understand how you feel, it is painful watching us at the moment but I se this very simply - namely you have decided to stop going.

I don't want football to be about marketing. It shouldn't be about marketing. You either want to go or you don't. You know the price, you know we have a shit squad and had a shit manager and you made a decision.

I'm not quite with you Mobile I'm afraid in terms of criticising the club for not doing enough to keep you when you appear to have simply decided to not bother going.

Disagree with that Mic.
Football's a business and if you ignore your marketing and how you communicate with your customers, they walk away.
The problem for United is that the real time for marketing was the end of last season and the summer - and, as with the team, they utterly failed.
A few half-arsed, barely interested calls from people who don't care just adds to the sense that the club itself doesn't care.
These are dangerous times for the club. A lot of people the club has counted on for years and years are walking away.
If it carries on like this, there are real problems ahead.
There's a massive task to re-engage supporters and they currently appear to have not the slightest idea of how they're going to do it - or that they even care.
United's fabric is fraying and without due care and attention - and with a potential uprising from S6 - our club could find itself out in the cold and without much point in continuing to exist as a potential significant player in English football.

 

[DP8789]

"1. I found it hard to justify paying out £419 or whatever it was to watch the basic rubbish I had seen last season (probably count on one hand the number of HALFS that would conteract this) - a price that has virtually doubled over the last six years or so" - So your choosing not to go because of price, not the fact you feel disillusioned? you could spread the cost out with a direct debit over 6 months, and not take the big hit.

"Over the years I have probably seen some bigger rubbish than that last season - however the price in those days was pence to enter!"- so how much is a pint, a loaf of bread, pint of milk, petrol? its all relative.

"For this season, I thought, I would pick and choose. I have so far managed Scunthorpe at home and Bristol City away. Zero goals scored, 7 conceded" - so if you had gone Hull and Portsmouth (both relegated sides, cleans sheets and 2 goals scored) - would your opinion be different? or is this just another excuse for you to justify why you didnt buy one? when really its price?

"1. A phone call from them asking if I would like to buy some deal of half dozen tickets for £100 or something at the appointment of Speed. - flexi tickets are good value - 16.50 a ticket is below average for most championship sides.

2. A marketing leaflet from them saying they would welcome me back to a game for £10 if I took this leaflet to the ticket office by 7pm the day before the game. I received the leaflet at 6 pm the day before the game - Thats royal mails fault, do you seriously think united had them sent out so that would happen?

3. A leaflet offering me half a season ticket with a "free" game. - more free games than any season ticket holder will get this year!

4. A phone call last evening from a nice young guy promoting the half season ticket." - marketing campaign, trying to contact old customers on our database, trying to generate income for our club, i struggle too see how this is bad.

"I am trying to be help the club understand - but their marketing of late has just disappeared with absolutely no understanding of their customer base and workings. It just seems so sad that they seem not to care."

im with mic on this one, i struggle too see how the club could do anything else, they cant possilbly generate a database where marketing can address each customers specific needs when trying to get them back to the games. there has too be some form of generic marketing, its how big business works, unless the customers makes a complaint and recieves a tailored service.

maybe you should write to them and ask them to reduce the prices.

 

[AlienWoodward]

Thing is what could they have done to keep you?

Give you a ticket for £200 whilst we all pay the £420 or whatever it was?

I understand how you feel, it is painful watching us at the moment but I se this very simply - namely you have decided to stop going.

I don't want football to be about marketing. It shouldn't be about marketing. You either want to go or you don't. You know the price, you know we have a shit squad and had a shit manager and you made a decision.

I'm not quite with you Mobile I'm afraid in terms of criticising the club for not doing enough to keep you when you appear to have simply decided to not bother going.

I am a bit shocked here but I am going to agree with Mic,even if he is talking drivel etc,etc,etc ;-)
I think it is a personal thing as well.To be honest,eighteen years ago when my daughter was born,I took five years off from a season ticket,just going to the odd match.
When she was five I bought her one and have been going since.
I nearly didn't renew this season,but the more I think about it,I think it's more a fed up of football thing than fed up of united thing.
United have been shit for the majority of mine and everyone else's life.So that's no excuse for a non renewal
If I don't renew next season I will be back at some point,and while i'm away smeone knew will take my place i'm sure.
UTB

 

[raul]

I am similar to you, but DID get a ST this season. Next season probably won't bother, an absolutely unthinkable thing as recently as 4 season's ago. Will probably still put aside Saturday's to listen to the games. It's no fun anymore, not exciting, never get that knot in the stomach on the morning of the game. You know we're not going to buy/loan anyone to excite. And you also get to realise that actually the club just don't care about the fans. It doesn't feel like my family anymore. Sad, but that's how it is for me. The affair is over.

Amidst all the rest of stuff ever posted on here, if SUFC only ever read one post - it's this one.

I've been lucky enough to get to know NYB through United (and cadged enough tickets off him over the years) and if he's had enough, it can't be long until we've all had enough. Now, before anyone plunges in at the deep end with betrothals of loyalty, I can't believe NYB would have ever thought he'd end up saying that having been as much as he has over the years and indeed brought in two other generations of NYB's to the Lane.

It's not the Final Countdown, but it's the start of the countdown to the Final Countdown unless it becomes fun again.

 

[JohnDenver]

Amidst all the rest of stuff ever posted on here, if SUFC only ever read one post - it's this one.

I've been lucky enough to get to know NYB through United (and cadged enough tickets off him over the years) and if he's had enough, it can't be long until we've all had enough. Now, before anyone plunges in at the deep end with betrothals of loyalty, I can't believe NYB would have ever thought he'd end up saying that having been as much as he has over the years and indeed brought in two other generations of NYB's to the Lane.

It's not the Final Countdown, but it's the start of the countdown to the Final Countdown unless it becomes fun again.

This is all fine and well, but what was fun about United in, say, 1998-1999 or 2004-5 that no longer exists? Is it a tangible thing?

We're not very good anymore, but we weren't then either. Sky existed then. The league was financially stratified then, and we didn't have much money then either.

So what exactly has changed? Is it the slow (rather late forming) realisation that your team cannot succeed without money? That the 'sleeping giant' concept no longer applies? That your local heroes are just money-chasers?

None of this is news. So why now?

 

[dingledog]

An interesting post highlighting the gulf between those who 'own' the club financially and those who 'own' the club morally.

 

[MobileBlade]

Mic

I think you have misunderstood what I said and I wanted to be careful to avoid saying exactly what you think I was intermating.

What I was trying to say is that I was finding it hard to justify paying the amounts they were asking for the product being served. I along with several thousand others chose not to renew.

My comment is that I find it strange that the club has done nothing to find out why I, or many others, have not renewed. That is basic customer care. Marketing strategies can then be developed around this. I made a point that football is not like a normal business and you state this, sort of, in your response.

I am not for one minute saying they should offer a half price season ticket after 10 years or anything like that (although that would a great marketing idea for rewarding loyalty) but at least understand your customers.

Just for only the second time ever, I am agreeing with Len in that understanding your customers helps you relate to them. If you don't understand them, you become like our neighbours whereby the chairman starts to call you cretins etc. and that is not the United and I have grown up with and love.

 

[ghandi]

Amidst all the rest of stuff ever posted on here, if SUFC only ever read one post - it's this one.

I've been lucky enough to get to know NYB through United (and cadged enough tickets off him over the years) and if he's had enough, it can't be long until we've all had enough. Now, before anyone plunges in at the deep end with betrothals of loyalty, I can't believe NYB would have ever thought he'd end up saying that having been as much as he has over the years and indeed brought in two other generations of NYB's to the Lane.

It's not the Final Countdown, but it's the start of the countdown to the Final Countdown unless it becomes fun again.

Raul .....when Shred and Jowett stop going to every match that is the start of the Final Countdown and that's a long way off. I think the days are shortening and you're getting too morose in a similar vein to a Finnish farmer in deep mid winter. The Blades will outlive us all and through the seasons will have good crowds, bad crowds and average crowds and people will make their minds up to go to matches and buy/renew STs for numerous different reasons. Let's not over analyse it's all been that way and always will be. In addition to us being crap for the majority of time.

 

[raul]

This is all fine and well, but what was fun about United in, say, 1998-1999 or 2004-5 that no longer exists? Is it a tangible thing?

We're not very good anymore, but we weren't then either. Sky existed then. The league was financially stratified then, and we didn't have much money then either.

So what exactly has changed? Is it the slow (rather late forming) realisation that your team cannot succeed without money? That the 'sleeping giant' concept no longer applies? That your local heroes are just money-chasers?

None of this is news. So why now?

My post is borne more out of surprise that I'd read such a thing from NYB, probably more for him to answer than I, but fundamentally if you're asking me then a) We did have some entertaining players in those eras (Devlin, Bent) who would quicken the stride even in the full knowledge we weren't doing anything other than trading water and b) We had not then had our hopes and expectations raised, dashed, torn up and shat on by the Chairman.

---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

Raul .....you're getting too morose .

Morose? Me? Never....

 

[ghandi]

Mic

I think you have misunderstood what I said and I wanted to be careful to avoid saying exactly what you think I was intermating.

What I was trying to say is that I was finding it hard to justify paying the amounts they were asking for the product being served. I along with several thousand others chose not to renew.

My comment is that I find it strange that the club has done nothing to find out why I, or many others, have not renewed. That is basic customer care. Marketing strategies can then be developed around this. I made a point that football is not like a normal business and you state this, sort of, in your response.

I am not for one minute saying they should offer a half price season ticket after 10 years or anything like that (although that would a great marketing idea for rewarding loyalty) but at least understand your customers.

Just for only the second time ever, I am agreeing with Len in that understanding your customers helps you relate to them. If you don't understand them, you become like our neighbours whereby the chairman starts to call you cretins etc. and that is not the United and I have grown up with and love.

You're over analysing...if we are winning and playing entertaining football the crowds will be substantially greater unfortunately winning and/or playing enatertining football cannot be guaranteed.

 

[lenners]

JD, it's because football's changed.
Money, as you intimated, is all. It's why Wednesday fans are kidding themselves if they think they can return to former glories because they simply haven't got and will not have the money to compete at the level they did in the 90s.
Having said that, I would be content with United playing in the lower reaches of the Prem on a regular basis - a place where the club should quite reasonably aspire to be.
The problem is we've failed to get anywhere near that level for a generation and the well of belief among fans is running dry.
Beyond that though, fans can see we've royally fucked up a massive opportunity and know - have pretty much been told - that we're going nowhere for years to come.
They also know the club can't be trusted and that, more than anything, creates massive disillusion.

 

[Torrix1889]

On the flip side Mobile would you have happily shelled out £800 plus if we had made a couple of marquee signings in the summer and all was looking rosy?

Seems to me that you found the cost too much to stomach, (and that's NOT a critisism, I wouldn't be able to find that kind of money) and you are using the fact that we are shit to justify your actions to yourself.

 

[Micalijo]

Mic

I think you have misunderstood what I said and I wanted to be careful to avoid saying exactly what you think I was intermating.

What I was trying to say is that I was finding it hard to justify paying the amounts they were asking for the product being served. I along with several thousand others chose not to renew.

My comment is that I find it strange that the club has done nothing to find out why I, or many others, have not renewed. That is basic customer care. Marketing strategies can then be developed around this. I made a point that football is not like a normal business and you state this, sort of, in your response.

I am not for one minute saying they should offer a half price season ticket after 10 years or anything like that (although that would a great marketing idea for rewarding loyalty) but at least understand your customers.

Just for only the second time ever, I am agreeing with Len in that understanding your customers helps you relate to them. If you don't understand them, you become like our neighbours whereby the chairman starts to call you cretins etc. and that is not the United and I have grown up with and love.

I'm not with you at all Mobile.

Marketing strategies will not work if you think the product is over-priced will it? You've been through the mill with United I assume and basically you've had enough. That's how I see it.

I don;t need any marketing startegy to remind in May that it's renewal time. I either will renew or I won't renew. It helps if we have a proper playing squad and I'm think Birch is doing a pathetic job of understanding the business but it still has little or no impact on whether I renew or not.

 

[lenners]

It might not matter with you Mic but it will matter with plenty of others.
Should renewals start in May? SWFC, our main competitor, have started selling now with a clear marketing policy on prices.
Should we be selling now?
Should we be working on another strategy? A free ticket if we get back to the Prem in the next three years ? A sliding scale depending on when the renewal is made?
Maybe none of the above but SUFC have definitely got to start doing something or we'll be losing thousands more season ticket holders in a few months time.

 

[Grecian2000]

My comment is that I find it strange that the club has done nothing to find out why I, or many others, have not renewed. That is basic customer care. Marketing strategies can then be developed around this.

This is the paragraph that I think defines the opening post of the thread.

I work in an entirely different industry and our customers are medium to large companies rather than individuals, but EVERY customer who leaves us is asked to fill out a form as to why (similarly if they decide to renew this is requested). This is analysed and we have a monthly meeting as to how we have performed and why. We want to know why we are losing and why we are retaining.
This might be a task beyond SUFC and the individuals that make up their client base but I too am amazed after 34 consecutive seasons on the trot as an ST holder that no-one has bothered to find out why I'm not this season.

 

[Micalijo]

It might not matter with you Mic but it will matter with plenty of others.
Should renewals start in May? SWFC, our main competitor, have started selling now with a clear marketing policy on prices.
Should we be selling now?
Should we be working on another strategy? A free ticket if we get back to the Prem in the next three years ? A sliding scale depending on when the renewal is made?
Maybe none of the above but SUFC have definitely got to start doing something or we'll be losing thousands more season ticket holders in a few months time.

I agree, Trevor will be able to add to his illustrious CV that he can lose 8,000 season ticket holders in two summers.

I don't think we should be selling season tickets now, even at a discount.

I just don't think marketing makes much of a difference to ticket sales at football clubs if the team is as bad as ours. we want openess from the club not some blurb along the lines of 'come and enjoy the vibrant atmosphere at BDTBL as we gear up for another serious promotion push. Come and watch our young stars in action etc etc.'

I know a few who have given up after years and no amount of marketing could change their mind and it is a total waste of everybody's time the club contacting them. They know when they are being ripped off and lied to. I do, but I still decided to buy one, primarily because I love supping beer on a saturday lunchtime/early evening.

 

[MobileBlade]

I'm not with you at all Mobile.

Marketing strategies will not work if you think the product is over-priced will it? You've been through the mill with United I assume and basically you've had enough. That's how I see it.

I don;t need any marketing startegy to remind in May that it's renewal time. I either will renew or I won't renew. It helps if we have a proper playing squad and I'm think Birch is doing a pathetic job of understanding the business but it still has little or no impact on whether I renew or not.

Marketing Strategies include pricing. In fact, its the base from which you work.

 

[chipsncake]

It might not matter with you Mic but it will matter with plenty of others.
Should renewals start in May? SWFC, our main competitor, have started selling now with a clear marketing policy on prices.
Should we be selling now?
Should we be working on another strategy? A free ticket if we get back to the Prem in the next three years ? A sliding scale depending on when the renewal is made?
Maybe none of the above but SUFC have definitely got to start doing something or we'll be losing thousands more season ticket holders in a few months time.

As usual Len I agree with your every word on this matter. With regard to next years season ticket sales I can only see disaster ahead. Many will already have made their mind up not to renew and more will follow when we are relagated.

 

[Micalijo]

Marketing Strategies include pricing. In fact, its the base from which you work.

That's true, but doesn't that mean that you simply think it is too expensive and quite sensibly therefore didn't buy one. I don't see the complication here Mobile and the need for SUFC to understand it.

I'd love United to try a one-off all season tickets are £200 - £250 for adults but it aint going to happen.

What would it take for you to get one next year?

 

[chipsncake]

This is the paragraph that I think defines the opening post of the thread.

I work in an entirely different industry and our customers are medium to large companies rather than individuals, but EVERY customer who leaves us is asked to fill out a form as to why (similarly if they decide to renew this is requested). This is analysed and we have a monthly meeting as to how we have performed and why. We want to know why we are losing and why we are retaining.
This might be a task beyond SUFC and the individuals that make up their client base but I too am amazed after 34 consecutive seasons on the trot as an ST holder that no-one has bothered to find out why I'm not this season.

Grecian, the reason McCabe doesn't want to know why thousands haven't renewed is he's afraid of hearing the truth. For a so called high-flyer to run a business the way he has run United over the last 3 years is embarrassing.

 

[Micalijo]

As usual Len I agree with your every word on this matter. With regard to next years season ticket sales I can only see disaster ahead. Many will already have made their mind up not to renew and more will follow when we are relagated.

I'd be very interested to know if Birch has any idea of what will happen next April if he is charging £430 odd in a situation where we have no players. I still don't see what marketing can be done to make those who have already decided enough is enough change their mind - which as you say will be thousands.

 

[beightonblade]

If anyone from United is reading .....

fookin hell they can't stop Tom fookin Hark !