I just don't understand

[robbiez666]

why any manager taking over us in League 1 was a great opportunity but a manager taking over a bigger club in a much better position (both in terms of players and financially)in League 1 is suddenly a poor career move?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

why any manager taking over us in League 1 was a great opportunity but a manager taking over a bigger club in a much better position (both in terms of players and financially)in League 1 is suddenly a poor career move?

It depends where the move was from, doesn't it?
Not difficult.

 

[HighfieldBlade]

People saying Wilder is off to Sunderland are just shit-stirrers. Hope that helps.

 

[robbiez666]

It depends where the move was from, doesn't it?
Not difficult.

No, not really. If you're an intelligent manager you'll look at a club as a long-term prospect. What's an extra year if you know you'll have amuch more funds in the same league you're in at the moment.

 

[robbiez666]

I'd like to point out that this is a general point.

I have no idea what Chris will or won't do. The fact this story is running on a forum frequented by many of his friends makes me think it has legs.

the general point is that we're not some kind of golden club which managers should give their lives to manage.

As it stands, whoever manages us will be lucky to keep us up next season. So we're hardly a catch.

 

[LJBlade]

No, not really. If you're an intelligent manager you'll look at a club as a long-term prospect. What's an extra year if you know you'll have amuch more funds in the same league you're in at the moment.

Will he have much more funds. Aren’t Sunderland currently losing £39m a year?

The takeover hasn’t even been finalised yet either

 

[Hamburg Blade]

No, not really. If you're an intelligent manager you'll look at a club as a long-term prospect. What's an extra year if you know you'll have amuch more funds in the same league you're in at the moment.

Of course it does. It's a career MOVE, it's dependent on where it's from and where it's to. To decide that a move to Sunderland from us is a better career move, you have to decide that their situation is better than ours. To do that, you have to make the assumption that all their problems have been resolved to the degree that promotion will be won at the first attempt. If he doesn't manage that, there will be no "long term" to consider.
If you really think Sunderland is so much bigger that they will walk League 1 and then bypass us in the Championship within a couple of seasons, then fine. I think the chances of that happening are not that high. The point is, though, if Wilder gambles on it, it's all or nothing. If he stays with us, he will undoubtedly have several seasons, even if we don't go up.

 

[robbiez666]

Will he have much more funds. Aren’t Sunderland currently losing £39m a year?

The takeover hasn’t even been finalised yet either

I understand that the new owners are writing off all debts. Sure, they'll have players on huge wages but they also have parachute payments.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

No, not really. If you're an intelligent manager you'll look at a club as a long-term prospect. What's an extra year if you know you'll have amuch more funds in the same league you're in at the moment.

If you're an egotistical manager whose ego is starting to write the cheques - it's a good move (see Mr C Coleman).

If you're an intelligent manager you stay another year and show 11th in the Championship isn't the peak of your powers.

If you're chasing the £££ you take the Sunderland role in a heartbeat.

 

[Rob86]

No, not really. If you're an intelligent manager you'll look at a club as a long-term prospect. What's an extra year if you know you'll have amuch more funds in the same league you're in at the moment.

Just said similar in another thread. At Sunderland it is likely he can start building in the knowledge that the club will keep pushing to go that step further.

Maybe he has done as much as he feels is possible at the Lane.

Any decision he makes will be a big call on whether to follow his heart or his head.

 

[robbiez666]

Of course it does. It's a career MOVE, it's dependent on where it's from and where it's to. To decide that a move to Sunderland from us is a better career move, you have to decide that their situation is better than ours. To do that, you have to make the assumption that all their problems have been resolved to the degree that promotion will be won at the first attempt. If he doesn't manage that, there will be no "long term" to consider.
If you really think Sunderland is so much bigger that they will walk League 1 and then bypass us in the Championship within a couple of seasons, then fine. I think the chances of that happening are not that high. The point is, though, if Wilder gambles on it, it's all or nothing. If he stays with us, he will undoubtedly have several seasons, even if we don't go up.

IF the debts are written off and there is money to spend, then they'll walk league 1, regardless who is in charge.

The major issue is our situation. If there's going to be as small a budget as last year then we're liable to go down or at best struggle. If your options are that or a club who will likely go up and then have the money to form a promotion charge, then there's an obvious choice.

Sunderland are a huge prospect. As big, if not bigger than us. Chris has stated that our training facilities are lacking. Sunderland will have a much better infrastructure than us.

 

[robbiez666]

If you're an egotistical manager whose ego is starting to write the cheques - it's a good move (see Mr C Coleman).

If you're an intelligent manager you stay another year and show 11th in the Championship isn't the peak of your powers.

If you're chasing the £££ you take the Sunderland role in a heartbeat.

What if you know it's impossible to better 11th in the next season. You can either leave with a great reputation or watch that reputation gradually slide as your team slides?

Can anyone honestly say we'll do better next season without significant investment which simply isn' there?

 

[LJBlade]

I understand that the new owners are writing off all debts. Sure, they'll have players on huge wages but they also have parachute payments.

It’s the old owner who is writing off the debt but that is irrelevant to my point. They’re losing £39m a year currently, that’s not their debts. They’ve got players like Jack Rodwell on massive wages and he isn’t even playing.

Nobody knows who the new owners are so nobody can show how much they’ll have to spend. Can you image walking away from the team you apparently support to join a team who are losing that much money, you don’t even know who the new owners are and on top of that the new owners might not even be ratified by the league?

 

[robbiez666]

Fair point, but if he did walk I'm sure he'd make sure he had assurances. His answer to the direct question about Sunderland was absolutely dire. It's simple to fob something like that off. Didn't even bother trying.

The point isn't Sunderland. It could be any club. West Brom etc. At the moment we're a club who will be lucky to stay up next season, whoever is in charge. Why would any manager want to stay with us in that scenario?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

IF the debts are written off and there is money to spend, then they'll walk league 1, regardless who is in charge.

The major issue is our situation. If there's going to be as small a budget as last year then we're liable to go down or at best struggle. If your options are that or a club who will likely go up and then have the money to form a promotion charge, then there's an obvious choice.

Sunderland are a huge prospect. As big, if not bigger than us. Chris has stated that our training facilities are lacking. Sunderland will have a much better infrastructure than us.

If the debts are written off, if the parachute payments plus the extra investment cover the losses and give him a wad to spend, if the players he buys work out, if he can get top players to drop to League 1, if the players already there suddenly stop being useless twats, if it all clicks, if there aren't two other teams that somehow do better next year, if he doesn't hit one of those inexplicable "on paper they should be top, why are they in the bottom half" seasons, if his approach works again, yeah, then they'll walk it.

Our situation - if the budget is the same as last year we'll do massively worse than last year? That doesn't make sense. The team as is has shown it can perform, why would Wilder believe he can't do it again?
His options aren't so straightforward as you believe. The choice isn't obvious. Sunderland could get it together, they could also crash and burn. We could also get it together, things are changing on the ownership front and nobody knows where that will lead.

As I've said before, the only reason he would be tempted is if he has an enormous pay day, presuming that is the sum of his ambition.

 

[LJBlade]

Fair point, but if he did walk I'm sure he'd make sure he had assurances. His answer to the direct question about Sunderland was absolutely dire. It's simple to fob something like that off. Didn't even bother trying.

The point isn't Sunderland. It could be any club. West Brom etc. At the moment we're a club who will be lucky to stay up next season, whoever is in charge. Why would any manager want to stay with us in that scenario?

Why would we be lucky to stay up next season? That takes negativity to a whole new level.

The point isn’t Sunderland? They seemed to be the point in your opening post.

 

[LJBlade]

If the debts are written off, if the parachute payments plus the extra investment cover the losses and give him a wad to spend, if the players he buys work out, if he can get top players to drop to League 1, if the players already there suddenly stop being useless twats, if it all clicks, if there aren't two other teams that somehow do better next year, if he doesn't hit one of those inexplicable "on paper they should be top, why are they in the bottom half" seasons, if his approach works again, yeah, then they'll walk it.

Our situation - if the budget is the same as last year we'll do massively worse than last year? That doesn't make sense. The team as is has shown it can perform, why would Wilder believe he can't do it again?
His options aren't so straightforward as you believe. The choice isn't obvious. Sunderland could get it together, they could also crash and burn. We could also get it together, things are changing on the ownership front and nobody knows where that will lead.

As I've said before, the only reason he would be tempted is if he has an enormous pay day, presuming that is the sum of his ambition.

Exactly. Sunderland weren’t supposed to get relegated this season, but they did. They had parachute payments this season, that didn’t help.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Why would we be lucky to stay up next season? That takes negativity to a whole new level.

I think that's the problem here, robbiez666 , your view of us being utterly utterly shite, a total car crash of a club, and your view of Sunderland being some shining light in the football world who are going to rocket to the top is why you can't see why Wilder won't walk. You have to step back and reassess how you see the two clubs.

 

[robbiez666]

If the debts are written off, if the parachute payments plus the extra investment cover the losses and give him a wad to spend, if the players he buys work out, if he can get top players to drop to League 1, if the players already there suddenly stop being useless twats, if it all clicks, if there aren't two other teams that somehow do better next year, if he doesn't hit one of those inexplicable "on paper they should be top, why are they in the bottom half" seasons, if his approach works again, yeah, then they'll walk it.

Our situation - if the budget is the same as last year we'll do massively worse than last year? That doesn't make sense. The team as is has shown it can perform, why would Wilder believe he can't do it again?
His options aren't so straightforward as you believe. The choice isn't obvious. Sunderland could get it together, they could also crash and burn. We could also get it together, things are changing on the ownership front and nobody knows where that will lead.

As I've said before, the only reason he would be tempted is if he has an enormous pay day, presuming that is the sum of his ambition.

Why would we be lucky to stay up next season? That takes negativity to a whole new level.

The point isn’t Sunderland? They seemed to be the point in your opening post.

Our form since November would put us, what 18th? Our strike-force is aged and will be worse than this season. Duffy is even less likely to make 90 minutes and he's our key player. I think it's likely we'll lose at least 2 key players in the summer, if there's no significant investment.

We'll basically be in Barnsley's position.

 

[robbiez666]

I think that's the problem here, robbiez666 , your view of us being utterly utterly shite, a total car crash of a club, and your view of Sunderland being some shining light in the football world who are going to rocket to the top is why you can't see why Wilder won't walk. You have to step back and reassess how you see the two clubs.

Where does our form from November put us over a season? Simple really.

 

[Bashar Al Asaba]

why any manager taking over us in League 1 was a great opportunity but a manager taking over a bigger club in a much better position (both in terms of players and financially)in League 1 is suddenly a poor career move?

I don't mean to be a dick (and I really don't), but from your previous postings, you were never that impressed by him anyway were you?

 

[robbiez666]

I don't mean to be a dick (and I really don't), but from your previous postings, you were never that impressed by him anyway were you?

Hi Tyler, I wasn't when he took over, no, but he soon won me over both with the quality of football and the results.

 

[LJBlade]

Our form since November would put us, what 18th? Our strike-force is aged and will be worse than this season. Duffy is even less likely to make 90 minutes and he's our key player. I think it's likely we'll lose at least 2 key players in the summer, if there's no significant investment.

We'll basically be in Barnsley's position.

Fortunately the season didn’t start in November. And since when did finishing 18th get you relegated?

Our strike force is aged but an extra 6 months won’t stop them from scoring goals completely. Likely we’ll lose two players. I’m not sure what you base that upon but either way we are allowed to buy replacements. I don’t understand where the notion has come from that we’ll suddenly stop signing players.

 

[Bashar Al Asaba]

Hi Tyler, I wasn't when he took over, no, but he soon won me over both with the quality of football and the results.

That's fair enough mate, I wasn't trying to shit-stir which is why I approached it carefully.

 

[robbiez666]

Fortunately the season didn’t start in November. And since when did finishing 18th get you relegated?

Our strike force is aged but an extra 6 months won’t stop them from scoring goals completely. Likely we’ll lose two players. I’m not sure what you base that upon but either way we are allowed to buy replacements. I don’t understand where the notion has come from that we’ll suddenly stop signing players.

on a bottom six budget, are you telling me that we'd replace Fleck, Brooks, O'Connell, Coutts with equally good players?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

on a bottom six budget, are you telling me that we'd replace Fleck, Brooks, O'Connell, Coutts with equally good players?

Why do you assume that we won't? They aren't gods. You can look at everything in an ultra negative way and there are simply no answers to it.
Yes, Sunderland is a much much better club. We have no money. Wilder will go. All our good players will leave, their replacements will be crap. We'll get relegated.
Better?
There is no discussion if that's what you believe.

 

[robbiez666]

Look, my initial point was a direct reaction to people who seemed completely astounded by the fact that a move down a division to Sunderland would be a backwards step in the long run.

I hope stays, I really do, but unless there's backing we'll be relegated sooner rather than later.

 

[robbiez666]

Why do you assume that we won't? They aren't gods. You can look at everything in an ultra negative way and there are simply no answers to it.
Yes, Sunderland is a much much better club. We have no money. Wilder will go. All our good players will leave, their replacements will be crap. We'll get relegated.
Better?
There is no discussion if that's what you believe.

I've been following them for 35 years. When have we replaced with equal or better? When? With squabbling owners who have very little spare money between them?

 

[LJBlade]

on a bottom six budget, are you telling me that we'd replace Fleck, Brooks, O'Connell, Coutts with equally good players?

We signed them on a smaller budget in the first place didn’t we?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I've been following them for 35 years. When have we replaced with equal or better? When? With squabbling owners who have very little spare money between them?

What happened 35 years ago has nothing to do with anyone currently at the club. It's a "woe is me" tale that Blades can't let go of. I don't know whether we will sign equal or even better players, if they go, but they arrived at our club somehow, who did they replace? Presumably worse players.