I don't trust Wilder

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The title of this thread is rather bizarre and there are some complete overractions in some of the posts. However, my feeling was the Wilder made a bit of a mistake with his selection yesterday. I "trust" that Wilder will recongnise that though.

Yesterday, my thoughts were:

Too much hoof
Not enough movement off the ball
Mistake not to play Duffy, who offered movement as soon as he came on
The defence and keeper need time to gell (which may eradicate some of the poor defending)
Lundstrum and Evans shouldnt really be starting together
As one part of the holy trinity is injured (Coutts), I dont think the solution is to not play one of the others (Duffy)
McGoldrick looks like a decent signing (good touch)
Need more mobility up front
Swansea are going to be a threat in this league, still had plenty of quality, countered well
We need to keep the ball better at times.


Work to do. But it's only the first game, against a side that was two divisions above us two years ago.
 
Talk about overreacting?

Three weeks ago after a draw with Inter, people were creaming themselves about how good we were.

Then an average performance against an ex Premier squad results in a loss and the toys are straight out of the pram.

Some need to grow up and think things through, before filling the forum with panic ill thought invective.
 
It is just one game & not the time for overreacting, but I concede I was disappointed at the apparent lack of progress from last seasons short comings. Many of us can see where we are not so good & it is worrying that CW/AK don't seem to acknowledge we actually have these problems. Why such an important player as Duffy is for us cannot start, especially at home, is very baffling indeed, as is the decision to play Evans & Lundstrum together, it just doesn't work plain & simple. Evans has gotten into a habit of looking to play a pass & then checking back & turning, yet every single time he attempts this he loses the ball, often in bad areas for us. I wonder if CW is thinking of playing Bryan in midfield in place of Evans or Lundstrum, which would I think be a good move, but a better one would be to replace them both & have a midfield of Bryan, Fleck & Duffy.
Clarke appears to be getting picked on past glories alone, he has been ineffective for a while now & McGoldrick looked far better than he yesterday, McGoldrick & Sharp or Woodburn seems to me a better fit for the team.
There are other problems with some players, & we cannot simply change everything at once & hope for the best, but little tweaks need to be made at least, we cannot be complacent & let things drift in the hope things will click at some point, as has been mentioned about we need to grasp the nettle & show some intent.
 
I should coco said:
Talk about overreacting?

Three weeks ago after a draw with Inter, people were creaming themselves about how good we were.

Then an average performance against an ex Premier squad results in a loss and the toys are straight out of the pram.

Some need to grow up and think things through, before filling the forum with panic ill thought invective.
Click to expand...


It's odd that some think we are a good side yet at least five of the starters yesterday are regularly criticised for not being good enough.
 
Steve Mackan said:
Don't think you're correct here. A fully fit Paul Coutts is a more important player than a fully fit John Fleck, not better...moot point.

The problem yesterday - and watch their first goal as an example - were the three midfielders are too high up the pitch and leave huge gaps EVERYWHERE.

I don't like oversimplifying, but where were Lundstram, Fleck and Evans actually playing? If you were playing a computer game, there would be no name to describe their position. None were deep-lying, advanced, playmaker, quarterback, defensive midfielder. It looked tactically inept and they only beat us because they were tactically smart.
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Oh dear...there are two steps to a manager falling out of favour. First is ‘tactically inept’ then it proceeds to ‘lost the dressing room’.

Whether either or both are remotely true is immaterial, of course.
 
Pinchy said:
Oh dear...there are two steps to a manager falling out of favour. First is ‘tactically inept’ then it proceeds to ‘lost the dressing room’.

Whether either or both are remotely true is immaterial, of course.
Click to expand...

I said, "it looked." In large part due to the players.
 
I think loaning out Holmes before Coutts return, may have been a mistake.
He might not be the best, but after seeing him in pre-season, I'd rather have had in on than, Evans or Lundstrum, Leonard would've been a better partner for eather of them also.
 
Jesus, even I've not said anything this negative

Just get back to "Couldn't give a toss" football

It was fun, it was exciting and it worked

Even defeats were entertaining
 

grafikhaus said:
Could well be, but surely a lot are over-reacting? We're playing at a very high level now, having made giant strides over the last two years. Unfortunately, we can't afford to just demolish a team and buy in replacements. Swansea showed the athleticism that comes with seven years at the top level (yes, a lot of their players yesterday weren't involved, but the 'top-flight ethos' still remains within the club.)

I'm pretty disappointed with yesterday. Not so much with the result - I thought Swansea deserved to win (as did Brentford in the corresponding opening-day game last season) - but with the immediate turning on the team and Wilder after just one defeat and with the hordes of people who left straight after Swansea's second (was 'X-Factor' on?). We're better than that, surely?

Of course, it was fun two seasons ago - winning more than we lost in Division One. Sunderland (30k crowd yesterday and £20m still in parachutes) will probably enjoy this season, as may Swansea this year. I'll remind you of a comment from a Swansea fan in Roygbiv s Pre-match View From Swansea:

“An unusual mix of hope, trepidation and the totally unknown are my gut feelings going into this new season but hopefully it will make for a pleasant change from the anxious, tedious borefest performances and the oh so predictable relegation battles we have become accustomed to over the past 3 years”

Make your choice - knocking over the likes of Port Vale, Northampton etc. and being a 'flat track bully' or being tested in every game against excellent teams. Just two seasons ago (2016-17) in Division One, we got one point from the first four games including a 0-3 home defeat to Southend. The rest of the season wasn't an unalloyed success, including losses to Fleetwood and Walsall. But we adapted, recruited and got there eventually.

Chris is facing challenges he's never had before. Does he think 'Fuck it. How much do you want for Waghorn, then?' Or does he continue to operate within our budget and face the wrath of (some) fans if we're near the bottom of the table come Christmas? We're up against some very rich, serious and good teams now and that's what I was looking forward to when I was sat on freezing cold nights watching us play Yeovil, Accrington, Stevenage, Crawley etc.

Maybe we (and Chris) have 'found our level'? If so, it's not a bad level to be at, compared to where we've been.
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No, well put bud.

The bit I find concerning/disconcerting is this. Last October? we won at Burton but Coutts' suffered a horrible injury and leg break. After that we went downhill - quite quickly too. Many put it on the loss of Coutts and they may well be right. But I remember posting that this may well have coincided with teams sussing us out and Saturday's performance I think bore that out.

The pundits on Sky said as much too saying at the end that our players at the back couldn't/didn't think strategically. And this is the nub. Is CW playing a system he wants to play regardless of our players ability to think on their feet? In other words are our players just not good enough to adapt on the pitch.

I can't recall if it was NW or DB that said something to the effect I play this way because I have players that are only good enough to do that, we just can't afford players that can play the fancy stuff? I think it was DB but may be have been Neil.

I think CW now is really up against it and he is either papering over the chasms or has still to work out a solution.

I was really disappointed with Saturday's performance. It was dire. All relegation teams are vulnerable in the first few games and we should have torn them over. In the end it was a bit like the 47th game of last season and after a good pre-season that is very disappointing.

We shall see. But a season of struggle might just beckon.

I am also concerned at all the pressure being put on Coutts. All this 'when he comes back we'll be back to the first part of last season.' I'm not so sure. A lot depends on his mental attitude. And again I fear it wasn't the loss of Coutts; but that we've been sussed. CW denies it, but yet again we've been undone.

How many times have we lost a game over the last 47 once we've taken the lead?

Worrying times ahead. CW and AN are great for SUFC but... they've got to resolve this one.
 
BladeFisher said:
How many times have we lost a game over the last 47 once we've taken the lead?
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Now that is a tap-in for a statto like me! :D

Going back to the opening-day game last season v. Brentford, the Swansea game was only the sixth time we've taken the lead and lost in 47 games (Forest away, Fulham and Bristol City at home, Barnsley and Birmingham away and Swansea last Saturday.)

It's all about perspective. I'm sure Stoke and West Brom fans are fearing that they'll 'do a Sunderland'.
 
I should coco said:
Talk about overreacting?

Three weeks ago after a draw with Inter, people were creaming themselves about how good we were.

Then an average performance against an ex Premier squad results in a loss and the toys are straight out of the pram.

Some need to grow up and think things through, before filling the forum with panic ill thought invective.
Click to expand...

Good points, so what can we learn from this?

First, play the likes of Inter in pre-season friendlies as this will do more to get the players up to speed than games against the likes of Mansfield and Donny.

Second, don't go out with a pre-ordained game plan. I thought Swansea had a good look at us in the first half, saw where our weaknesses were and exploited them. Something CW has to learn. Watch and adapt. The game has moved on from shouting in the tunnel and banging your head on the dressing-room wall. A new breed of manager is coming into the game, the likes of Lampard, Bielsa, Espírito Santo etc.

Thirdly, I continue to fail to see what a manager can see at touchline-level. Get in the stands (where it's always easier :D) and get a more holistic view of what's unfolding.
 
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