Hecky- better than wilder?

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Katzenjammer said:
I'm not making a comparison between them.

Chris Wilder picked us up from the absolute dumps, took a team full of shit and spun us into gold. He gave me and many others the best years of our lives following this club. It wasn't to last, and lord knows he had his shortcomings and it's sad how it ended, but I'm forever grateful.

Paul Heckingbottom made a broken, demoralised and defeated side believe in themselves again when there was nothing left to play for but a bit of dignity. When it was clear that it wouldn't work out with Slavisa Jokanovic, he returned again and made us into winners, falling painfully short of taking us back to the top.
Then he took us the top flight, with fixtures to spare, often playing some excellent stuff in the process.

I'm thankful that they both form part of the rich tapestry of Sheffield Uniteds story.
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👏👏👏
 



Tony_Kaufman said:
I wouldn't say more tactical nous. Many times last season he failed to change things tactically when it wasn't working and merely made like for like changes with very late subs. He's good but can get better. He can't do this in the Premier League.
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He got us promoted with a great points total,sometimes he does drop bollocks but who doesn’t. I trust him,after having doubts about him,obviously learns sharper than us lot on here.
 
Difficult comparison. Picked United up in different situations. Wilder had a poorer squad with less expectation, Hecky had a much better squad (that was under delivering) but with much more expectation. I think they both had a difficult job.

Personally I think Hecky will prove to be the more successful. I think we’re more flexible tactically now and he seems far more inclined to think outside the box recruitment wise. He’s also more composed and measured with his views and emotions.

I think a lot of Wilder’s success was based on momentum and it simply fizzled out. Don’t get me wrong, did an amazing job. A club legend and I’m forever grateful for what he did but his time was up and he knew it, which is why he tried to force his way out.

Hecky has a bit to prove yet but he’s done remarkably well in his own right. He turned the ship around and maximised what he had.
 
Hecky has exponentially more emotional intelligence and self awareness, which when dealing with PL 'superstars' is vital. Wilder didn't have either of those skills, which ultimately led to his down fall....

His lack of success since only compounds this.
 
Wilder - More oldschool (not a bad thing), dragged us from nothingness and gave us our club back.

Heck - Modern manager personified, more cautious than Wilder, but has delivered what was expected. Wilder over-achieved, whilst Hecky has achieved what was expected.

I'd say the right man at the moment is Hecky. He is modern, but still has that old-school belief. Think Wilder's downfall was his stubbornness.

Can't compare. Different remits and different teams.
 
Chalk and Cheese but if i was forced to pick on an overall basis it's quite easily Heckingbottom for me.
 
You can't necessarily trade one off against the other due to the circumstances where they were appointed, it's not an apples for apples comparison.

Wilder, as a fan, would have seen games and being a manager himself, looked at the team through both lenses and seen that something desperately needed to change. He got the job and immediately set to work on doing what was needed. Christ knows it started badly with those first few games but it soon took off and the ball kept on rolling, something like 3 defeats in the next 43 league games. We were great as long as Walsall weren't the opposition!

His emotional attachment is probably the reason why it took off, why we went on the run we did and how he managed to get a team of waifs, strays and ne'er do wells into the Premier League. It probably also contributed to his downfall when he had any modicum of criticism whether it was from the lad off Radio Sheffield, the "Playstation managers", his outburst away at Leicester and the fall out with the Prince.

The stubbornness and desire to be the smartest person in the room and desire to keep proving people wrong led to Wilder putting the walls up and it all came crashing down and left a bit of a sour taste especially after the ride to get there to then capitulate so meekly.

Hecky was brought in by Wilder so offered an amount of continuity from the past regime, much like when Blackwell came in to replace Robson. Hecky had the remnants of a squad that had previously been decent but the tough part that he achieved was to pick up a team who had lost all confidence after a terrible season and then a poor start to the next one. Getting them on the horse again, losing in the play offs but getting them back on it again to go one better is the key difference for me. Wilder and his team crumbled in the first sign of adversity, whereas this one got itself off the floor. Arse kicking probably wasn't the order of the day in Hecky's situation like it would have been when we were floundering in mid-table League One.

This season is a big test with the lack of funds. Some of these foreign signings could be absolute gold dust or they could be Richairo Zivkovic. Either way, we're not without a chance and a measured approach this time round might be what does the job with this group, seems to have worked so far.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
I wouldn't say more tactical nous. Many times last season he failed to change things tactically when it wasn't working and merely made like for like changes with very late subs. He's good but can get better. He can't do this in the Premier League.
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Please explain when it wasn’t working last season. I can only think of a couple of matches.
 
If we spend more than two season in the Premier league he will be better than Wilder.
 



If Hecky ever has to pick up a pile of shit in league one, wheel and deal his way out of it, adopting a unique style of attacking football whilst playing under a McCabe like chairman, then I might make comparison. However, I hope I never have to.

As it is we all saw Wilder’s faults which were his undoing. Hecky doesn’t have those faults but just in my opinion he is 1. Too cautious 2. Too loyal to certain players and 3. His substitutions are bloody bizarre. If he and we survive in the EPL this season I may be drawn towards a comparison.
 
Katzenjammer said:
I'm not making a comparison between them.

Chris Wilder picked us up from the absolute dumps, took a team full of shit and spun us into gold. He gave me and many others the best years of our lives following this club. It wasn't to last, and lord knows he had his shortcomings and it's sad how it ended, but I'm forever grateful.

Paul Heckingbottom made a broken, demoralised and defeated side believe in themselves again when there was nothing left to play for but a bit of dignity. When it was clear that it wouldn't work out with Slavisa Jokanovic, he returned again and made us into winners, falling painfully short of taking us back to the top.
Then he took us the top flight, with fixtures to spare, often playing some excellent stuff in the process.

I'm thankful that they both form part of the rich tapestry of Sheffield Uniteds story.
Click to expand...
This exactly
 
He’s currently level with Warnock.

But still behind Wilder and Bassett.
 
Not yet no but he does seem more adaptable than Wilder. For a lot of last season his subs were awful and late in general but towards the end, after Christmas he seemed to get better at changing the system or swapping a player to make us stronger in positions that were not doing well and being exploited by the opponent. He is better than I thought he would be but behind Wilder because Wilder dragged us back from the brink and injected the whole club, players and fans with amazing belief and made us seem invincible at times. It was much more exciting under Wilder apart from the last season obviously.
 
Seasons in top division since 1932 (Davison was our first manager)

Harris 9 and half (out of 13 and half seasons)

Davison 5 (out of 13 seasons)

Bassett 4 (out of 8 years)

Freeman 2 (out of 3 seasons)

Wilder 2 (out of 5 seasons)

Mercer 1 (out of 3 and half seasons)

Warnock 1 (out of 7 and half seasons)
 
Edinblade said:
Please explain when it wasn’t working last season. I can only think of a couple of matches.
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When Boro nearly caught us after we went on the winless run. He kept playing his favourites when they were out of form and playing badly, he wouldn't change formation or tactics during matches where we were struggling, and his substitutions were often too late and often bizarre, having little to no impact other than negatively.

I'm not knocking him, he's not had an easy job to do, but Wilder created the tactics that Hecky has gone on to copy.
 
scouseblade said:
Why so? Is this because he hasnt managed in the PL before? Take a look at Thomas Frank? Hasnt done too bad has he? Or Gary O'Neil last year.
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I didn't mean he can't manage in the Premier League. What I meant was make late and poor subs, and stick with plan A when plan A hasn't been working all match in the hope that plan A will suddenly work. The Premier League is ruthless. If you're being torn apart through the middle, you adapt during the match to counter what's happening. Of course he should manage in the Premier League, he's earned it.

That's what Wilder used to be good at, changing formations during the match to exploit teams or nullify them when they countered us. He stopped doing this, became scared of losing and became overly cautious, hence sticking to his frustrating flat midfield three which cancelled ourselves out for creativity.
 
Hecky seems far more intelligent, and also willing to change things and players if not going well, I.e brining Doyle and McAtee into the team in Jan when it looked like we were stalling. Wilder was so stubborn to the detriment of the team.
 
Sitting on the fence, but we can only answer this when Hecky leaves/is sacked.

The state in which the club is left for the next guy will be the best way to gauge it IMO. Wilder had some bad luck in how this turned out for him (Covid and how we ended the 19/20 season), but also made some bad decisions which have come back to bite us, as recently as earlier this year.
 
Wilders achievements were magical, he had a connection with the city/fans/club that elevated him even more. And it’s probably the lack of these connections as to why Heckingbottom doesn’t get elevated to where his achievements should be considered.

I was guilt of doubting PH last season at certain points, mainly pre-Sunderland away - which for me was the key game in our season. He nailed it.

He’s had to work under incredibly difficult circumstances and has done it with class.

I know it’s an overused cliche/comment, but, if PH was Spanish or had an illustrious playing career he’d be considered for top jobs.
 
Silent Blade said:
Seasons in top division since 1932 (Davison was our first manager)

Harris 9 and half (out of 13 and half seasons)

Davison 5 (out of 13 seasons)

Bassett 4 (out of 8 years)

Freeman 2 (out of 3 seasons)

Wilder 2 (out of 5 seasons)

Mercer 1 (out of 3 and half seasons)

Warnock 1 (out of 7 and half seasons)
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You missed Sirrel and Furphy.

Fun fact: Ken Furphy is the only manager (in the modern sense of the job) to only manage us in the top flight.
 



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