Hartlepool 2 Academy 1

[broomhillblade]

I see that our youngsters crashed out of the FA Youth Cup yesterday. The match report on the official site says we should have won easily, etc. etc.

I've long been a supporter of our Academy, but if a little club like Hartlepool can turn us over you have to wonder if it is all worth it.

 

[Robbie]

I've long been a supporter of our Academy, but if a little club like Hartlepool can turn us over you have to wonder if it is all worth it.

Do you reckon Man Utd say the same when we beat them?

 

[SheepdipBlade]

Do you reckon Man Utd say the same when we beat them?

I'd hope not. Aren't we told that our Academy is one of the best in the country, so Man U should just accept that they'd been beaten by a decent team from a quality set-up.

Not sure that the Chimp-Chokers have the same reputation though - which kind of asks just how good our set-up is in reality. Maybe just an off day??

 

[Stafford Blade]

For all we know Hartlepool could have a very good youth team at the current time. With youth teams etc some years will be stronger than others depending on how good the current crop of kids are compared to previous ones.

Anyone that complains about our academy obviously has a very short memory and needs their head reading as it was only last season that Kyle Naughton and Kyle Walker came through the ranks.

 

[lenners]

For all we know Hartlepool could have a very good youth team at the current time. With youth teams etc some years will be stronger than others depending on how good the current crop of kids are compared to previous ones.

Anyone that complains about our academy obviously has a very short memory and needs their head reading as it was only last season that Kyle Naughton and Kyle Walker came through the ranks.

Come off it. We should never be losing to Hartlepool in the Youth Cup even if our kids were training on Graves Park.
Someone ought to be receiving a thanks for your services and goodbye letter from the club because that ain't good enough by a long chalk.

 

[Silent Blade]

I get the impression that some academies pick youngsters who look really good on astroturf rather than on grass and a lot of training sessions are played on astroturf. Maybe there is too much emphasis on ball skill and not enough of tackling/aggression/learning to win the ball in the air etc during the training sessions? The problem is that we play a large number of matches on heavy pitches between November and March. I am not campaigning for summer football seasons but I have the feeling that academies are not picking the right kind of players who excel on heavy pitches. It doesnt look good that our Academy lost to a club who doesnt have an Academy

 

[Blade]

to be fair though we should never lose to port vale but I don't think the reaction was or should have been why bother lets shut the club down.

This debate always comes up at least 3 times a season, mainly after a loss where fans (on many occasions who don't watch academy football) decide the result means we shouldn't bother.

I'll be honest, I don't know how much money we invest into the Academy or how much we get out of it, I'd guess the money from Naughton and Walker would cover the costs since establishment though - not that I'm happy they've been sold. We should bother, we shouldn't promote an attitude to youngsters that we should give in after being beat by an underdog and given our scouting abilities I'm bloody glad we have a youth team, it makes sense to have one and sets us way above wednesday and other wank teams but you're never gonna see 11 players come through who are awesome at the same time or see them remain undefeated for 3 years. In dribs and in drabs we'll see some decent players come through even if most of them sign for someone else or get sold on for the money. I personally found seeing Naughton and Walker come through and do as well as they did one of the most positive and enjoyable things we've managed for the last 3 years at least and hope for more some day.

 

[lenners]

We should bother with an academy but if we're placing great store by it we need to have better management in place.
The result confirms the open secret at the Lane about the lack of quality among the young players and when you've invested like we have it isn't good enough.

 

[raul]

How many of our Academy products who have "made the grade" are now playing in our reserves?

My understanding was that they would be forming the backbone of the ressies as we re-profiled our first team squad.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Come off it. We should never be losing to Hartlepool in the Youth Cup even if our kids were training on Graves Park.
Someone ought to be receiving a thanks for your services and goodbye letter from the club because that ain't good enough by a long chalk.

Len - I take your point, just not as far as you on this occasion.

Every cup competition throws up upsets, every lowly team looks forward to a crack at the fancy dans.

However, there are clubs whose youth setup consistently performs - I'd pick out Boro as a prime example. We just aren't up there. We've at least made a bit of money out the latest crop of Kyles - but if our academy is not up there with the best, then it does suggest that we're not going to get there on the back of its output.

I'm the first to jump to McCabe's defence where investment is concerned, but surely pound for pound the investment in a top class youth development scheme must be less than a top class football squad. We've invested some money in it, but is it getting the investment and management focus it needs?

If all we generate is Premiership hopefuls that can be shifted for a few million quid then we will remain Premiership hopefuls thankfull for receiving a few million quid.

 

[Bramley]

Len - I take your point, just not as far as you on this occasion.

Every cup competition throws up upsets, every lowly team looks forward to a crack at the fancy dans.

However, there are clubs whose youth setup consistently performs - I'd pick out Boro as a prime example. We just aren't up there. We've at least made a bit of money out the latest crop of Kyles - but if our academy is not up there with the best, then it does suggest that we're not going to get there on the back of its output.

I'm the first to jump to McCabe's defence where investment is concerned, but surely pound for pound the investment in a top class youth development scheme must be less than a top class football squad. We've invested some money in it, but is it getting the investment and management focus it needs?

If all we generate is Premiership hopefuls that can be shifted for a few million quid then we will remain Premiership hopefuls thankfull for receiving a few million quid.

You win some you lose some, the odd result like this happens in football. Hardly worthy of a rant given the lads performances in the European tournament earlier on in the year is it?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

You win some you lose some, the odd result like this happens in football. Hardly worthy of a rant given the lads performances in the European tournament earlier on in the year is it?

Fair point well made. I'll keep dreaming of an all home-grown European glory era

 

[Stafford Blade]

Come off it. We should never be losing to Hartlepool in the Youth Cup even if our kids were training on Graves Park.
Someone ought to be receiving a thanks for your services and goodbye letter from the club because that ain't good enough by a long chalk.[/QUOTE

why shouldn't we lose to Hartlepool? Maybe they have a more talented bunch of kids this year than we do? Some years are stronger than others. You're right, the head of the academy should be sacked on the spot for only bringing two players into the first team last year that have been at the club since they were nippers.

 

[Stafford Blade]

I get the impression that some academies pick youngsters who look really good on astroturf rather than on grass and a lot of training sessions are played on astroturf. Maybe there is too much emphasis on ball skill and not enough of tackling/aggression/learning to win the ball in the air etc during the training sessions? The problem is that we play a large number of matches on heavy pitches between November and March. I am not campaigning for summer football seasons but I have the feeling that academies are not picking the right kind of players who excel on heavy pitches. It doesnt look good that our Academy lost to a club who doesnt have an Academy

would you rather academies picked skillful lads or big cloggers?

i think we both know the answer. Not many games at a high level are played on heavy pitches these days.

 

[Silent Blade]

would you rather academies picked skillful lads or big cloggers?



i think we both know the answer. Not many games at a high level are played on heavy pitches these days.

.

There should be a right mix. I remember Dave Bassett saying that he had a youth team at Wimbledon that had a lot of talented players and the team were winning nearly every match but none of the players "made the grade". In another season Wimbledon had a youth team that were losing a lot of matches but had one or two players that went on to play in the 1st team and one of them was Brian Gayle

Not many? Theres plenty in November, December and January etc. How many seasons out of the last 16 have the Blades played at the high level? Only one!

 

[Stafford Blade]

.

There should be a right mix. I remember Dave Bassett saying that he had a youth team at Wimbledon that had a lot of talented players and the team were winning nearly every match but none of the players "made the grade". In another season Wimbledon had a youth team that were losing a lot of matches but had one or two players that went on to play in the 1st team and one of them was Brian Gayle

Not many? Theres plenty in November, December and January etc. How many seasons out of the last 16 have the Blades played at the high level? Only one!

Have you seen the quality of the pitches these days? Nearly every pitch in the championship is like a carpet! The majority of youth games are played on good surfaces too. Even Chesterfield's kids that play at Warminster Road are playing good quality pitches

 

[lenners]

Come off it. We should never be losing to Hartlepool in the Youth Cup even if our kids were training on Graves Park.
Someone ought to be receiving a thanks for your services and goodbye letter from the club because that ain't good enough by a long chalk.[/QUOTE

why shouldn't we lose to Hartlepool? Maybe they have a more talented bunch of kids this year than we do? Some years are stronger than others. You're right, the head of the academy should be sacked on the spot for only bringing two players into the first team last year that have been at the club since they were nippers.

Stafford, Hartlepool should never have a better bunch of players than SUFC at any level of the game.
But this isn't about one result, it's also about not having a single young player good enough to fill a place on the bench when we had one empty.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

PC troubles last Saturday i take it Len?

 

[lenners]

PC troubles last Saturday i take it Len?

No, was working fine but thanks for your concern.

 

[Micalijo]

I get the impression that some academies pick youngsters who look really good on astroturf rather than on grass and a lot of training sessions are played on astroturf. Maybe there is too much emphasis on ball skill and not enough of tackling/aggression/learning to win the ball in the air etc during the training sessions? The problem is that we play a large number of matches on heavy pitches between November and March. I am not campaigning for summer football seasons but I have the feeling that academies are not picking the right kind of players who excel on heavy pitches. It doesnt look good that our Academy lost to a club who doesnt have an Academy

I'm probably a big Jessie but would you want to send your kid to an Academy or to training sessions where elbows or flying and kids are challenging for high balls and practising sliding tackles?

I understand what you are saying and athleticism is essential these days but once at academy level it can't be the case that there is too much ballwork can it?

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

I think that the Academy has poduced 2 players last year that they have sold to a top 6 premier club proves that it has a worth. I am sure that we attract a lot of good local talent from a young age but as at any club very few make it to the top level. Look at Man U, just released Serbia's best young talent for ages because he didn't develop enough. Should they close their academy down because of this failure? I saw Richie Partridge scored for Kettering (I think) the other evening, a couple of years ago he was a hot prospect at Liverpool.
There are always the exceptional talents, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard that just have something special from a young age but they still need to have that mental strength and physically develop to keep up with their peer group and be strong enough when they start playing with the 'big boys'
As usual a complete over reaction by some on here.

 

[Silent Blade]

I'm probably a big Jessie but would you want to send your kid to an Academy or to training sessions where elbows or flying and kids are challenging for high balls and practising sliding tackles?

I understand what you are saying and athleticism is essential these days but once at academy level it can't be the case that there is too much ballwork can it?

I was watching Blades v Owls reserves towards the end of last season. Many of the Blades players were good on the ball but as a team they lacked strength and height and were beaten easily. It is good to have a few ball artists in the youth squad but are we having too many of them in our academy squad? Chris Morgan was dropped from Hoyland u11s squad because he wasnt considered good enough, he was in tears but a few weeks later he was allocated a place back into the squad only because a player pulled out of the squad. Morgan is now an established professional with over 400 games while those who were condidered a lot more talented failed to make the grade

 

[Silent Blade]

I think that the Academy has poduced 2 players last year that they have sold to a top 6 premier club proves that it has a worth. I am sure that we attract a lot of good local talent from a young age but as at any club very few make it to the top level. Look at Man U, just released Serbia's best young talent for ages because he didn't develop enough. Should they close their academy down because of this failure? I saw Richie Partridge scored for Kettering (I think) the other evening, a couple of years ago he was a hot prospect at Liverpool.
There are always the exceptional talents, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard that just have something special from a young age but they still need to have that mental strength and physically develop to keep up with their peer group and be strong enough when they start playing with the 'big boys'
As usual a complete over reaction by some on here.

I am very pleased that we have produced the two Kyles as they are the first two success stories since the academy started in 2001 (Tonge, Jags etc were from the pre-academy days) and it took 7 to 8 years before we find the real McCoy but will we have to wait a long time before the next one?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I am very pleased that we have produced the two Kyles as they are the first two success stories since the academy started in 2001 (Tonge, Jags etc were from the pre-academy days) and it took 7 to 8 years before we find the real McCoy but will we have to wait a long time before the next one?

You could argue that Jacob Mellis was our first success story - sold for a seven figure sum despite never appearing on the bench in a first team game, let alone play an actual game.