GoalWatch vs Man City

[Bergen Blade]

First of all I think we defended really well against Man City. Against such a world class team it was admirable that we managed to keep them out for so long. It took some individual brilliance to get them the two goals. And some sloppiness on our part, and there's a couple of things to work on.

First goal:

We're in a decent position, having enough men back to defend. Up to this point Baldock had been brilliant against Grealish. In this situation he's got AA behind him as a second defender. But Anel is a bit close to Baldock, maybe expecting Grealish to cut inside. But on this occasions Grealish goes to the byline:



And on this occasion he does get a yard on Baldock. In the same process Anel beomes awol as a 2nd defender, similar to Lowe vs Palace:


In my opinion both Anel and Lowe should have taken up a positions a bit further back from the 1st defender, enabling

1. them to step in if the attacker goes on the outside
2. the rest of the defence to concentrate on their marking

What happens when the 2nd defender is awol and the space behind the 1st defender (yellow area below) is too big? The rest of the defenders very often get drawn towards the ball.

Going back to the first photo, the red arrows show what Egan and JR will do, despite originally being in excellent positions:



So the cross comes in and Haaland can make a forward leap to attack the chipped back post cross. JR is on his heels and can't get high enough to challenge Haaland:



Conceding from crosses seem to be a bit of a problem so far, and the positioning of the second defender is one thing to work on.


Second goal:

Obviously Larouci should have cleared it when he had the chance. Everybody saw that and Larouci will be kicking himself. I'll concentrate on the other things that happened before the ball was in the net.

Moments before the ball was on the other side, where 2/3 of our central midfield, Bash and Souza, have been pulled over trying to stop a cross. The cross is brilliant, but JR manages to dive in to stop Haaland getting on the end of it. Now, notice Foden in the bottom left corner of this image:



Egan pats JR twice on the back for his challenge, but in the meantime Walker nicks the ball from Larouci and we're in trouble. Our centre halves gets to their feet, but can only get into protect-the-goal-mode while Man City have three unmarked targets (including Foden!) in the area and we never manage to get players covering this zone properly:



Walker picks out Foden, who has an awkward touch, but there is still no United player challenging as it falls to Rodri who blasts it in:



So key for this goal was that Man City managed to;

• pull Bash and Souza out of position
• have players (Walker and Foden in particular) not giving up on the attack when it looked finished
• show superb quality with Silva's cross and Rodri's finish

Things to consider for us:

• Avoiding both our two most defensively minded midfielders being pulled out to stop a deep cross
• Not switching off before the ball is definitely fully cleared. Again notice how Foden doesn't, despite being furthest from the action when the original cross went in from the left. When he could get into that key position, so could our two midfielders
• Reacting quicker to danger when Larouci fell over
• Fatigue. May be a big ask for Souza in particular to be expected to sprint back into the central position at that stage. Should he have been subbed?
• Depth marking in the box; could Egan (not marking anyone) have moved out quicker to mark/challenge Foden/Rodri?

 

[Booker4]

First of all I think we defended really well against Man City. Against such a world class team it was admirable that we managed to keep them out for so long. It took some individual brilliance to get them the two goals. And some sloppiness on our part, and there's a couple of things to work on.

First goal:

We're in a decent position, having enough men back to defend. Up to this point Baldock had been brilliant against Grealish. In this situation he's got AA behind him as a second defender. But Anel is a bit close to Baldock, maybe expecting Grealish to cut inside. But on this occasions Grealish goes to the byline:

View attachment 169526

And on this occasion he does get a yard on Baldock. In the same process Anel beomes awol as a 2nd defender, similar to Lowe vs Palace:

View attachment 169528 View attachment 169529
In my opinion both Anel and Lowe should have taken up a positions a bit further back from the 1st defender, enabling

1. them to step in if the attacker goes on the outside
2. the rest of the defence to concentrate on their marking

What happens when the 2nd defender is awol and the space behind the 1st defender (yellow area below) is too big? The rest of the defenders very often get drawn towards the ball.

Going back to the first photo, the red arrows show what Egan and JR will do, despite originally being in excellent positions:

View attachment 169531

So the cross comes in and Haaland can make a forward leap to attack the chipped back post cross. JR is on his heels and can't get high enough to challenge Haaland:

View attachment 169532

Conceding from crosses seem to be a bit of a problem so far, and the positioning of the second defender is one thing to work on.


Second goal:

Obviously Larouci should have cleared it when he had the chance. Everybody saw that and Larouci will be kicking himself. I'll concentrate on the other things that happened before the ball was in the net.

Moments before the ball was on the other side, where 2/3 of our central midfield, Bash and Souza, have been pulled over trying to stop a cross. The cross is brilliant, but JR manages to dive in to stop Haaland getting on the end of it. Now, notice Foden in the bottom left corner of this image:

View attachment 169534

Egan pats JR twice on the back for his challenge, but in the meantime Walker nicks the ball from Larouci and we're in trouble. Our centre halves gets to their feet, but can only get into protect-the-goal-mode while Man City have three unmarked targets (including Foden!) in the area and we never manage to get players covering this zone properly:

View attachment 169535

Walker picks out Foden, who has an awkward touch, but there is still no United player challenging as it falls to Rodri who blasts it in:

View attachment 169536

So key for this goal was that Man City managed to;

• pull Bash and Souza out of position
• have players (Walker and Foden in particular) not giving up on the attack when it looked finished
• show superb quality with Silva's cross and Rodri's finish

Things to consider for us:

• Avoiding both our two most defensively minded midfielders being pulled out to stop a deep cross
• Not switching off before the ball is definitely fully cleared. Again notice how Foden doesn't, despite being furthest from the action when the original cross went in from the left. When he could get into that key position, so could our two midfielders
• Reacting quicker to danger when Larouci fell over
• Fatigue. May be a big ask for Souza in particular to be expected to sprint back into the central position at that stage. Should he have been subbed?
• Depth marking in the box; could Egan (not marking anyone) have moved out quicker to mark/challenge Foden/Rodri?

Re Anel on their first, I think he's trying to stop Grealish from cutting inside and/or also the pass he does with his right foot to pass inwards to someone else. When Grealish then goes on the outside it then renders Anel as a passenger but had he cut inside then Anel would have been really useful. I've seen Grealish go to the byline and cross with his left a lot though but he is right footed so maybe he's worked a lot on crossing with his left so then he becomes less predictable.

 

[Northyorksblade]

It must be so hard, especially against a team like Man City, to be 'on it' 95+ minutes of the game. The slightest mistake and they capitalise. Thought we were great yesterday, but those mistakes hurt us. If only Larouci didn't just boot it up the park. Agricultural maybe, but effective.

 

[Northyorksblade]

It must be so hard, especially against a team like Man City, to be 'on it' 95+ minutes of the game. The slightest mistake and they capitalise. Thought we were great yesterday, but those mistakes hurt us. If only Larouci didn't just boot it up the park. Agricultural maybe, but effective.

*just booted

 

[Trafford]

When you look at the goals that we have conceded this season, 4 out of the 5 might have been avoided if Egan or Anel had been told to man-mark the centre forward, rather than rotate responsibility. The Rodri goal was very unfortunate - a missed header, followed by a slip, followed by a miscontrol by Foden - but all of the rest came from their centre forward finding space that they shouldn’t have been afforded.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Re Anel on their first, I think he's trying to stop Grealish from cutting inside and/or also the pass he does with his right foot to pass inwards to someone else. When Grealish then goes on the outside it then renders Anel as a passenger but had he cut inside then Anel would have been really useful. I've seen Grealish go to the byline and cross with his left a lot though but he is right footed so maybe he's worked a lot on crossing with his left so then he becomes less predictable.

Agree with you, I think that's what Anel is thinking. It may even have been pre planned.

But it relies on Baldock stopping Grealish every single time, and that is a tough ask. Grealish does have the ability to get crosses in from his left foot, especially chipped ones to the back post.

Here's a very similar situation, where AA has taken up what I think is a better 2nd defender position. He's got a bit more distance to Baldock and could step in both if Grealish gets past on the inside or on the outside going for a low cross. This allows Egan and Robinson to concentrate more on their marking jobs, it keeps them in the right position and JR is able to challenge/wrestle with Haaland, so he can't make a leap for the ball:

 

[Frank the tank]

Agree with you, I think that's what Anel is thinking. It may even have been pre planned.

But it relies on Baldock stopping Grealish every single time, and that is a tough ask. Grealish does have the ability to get crosses in from his left foot, especially chipped ones to the back post.

Here's a very similar situation, where AA has taken up what I think is a better 2nd defender position. He's got a bit more distance to Baldock and could step in both if Grealish gets past on the inside or on the outside going for a low cross. This allows Egan and Robinson to concentrate more on their marking jobs, it keeps them in the right position and JR is able to challenge/wrestle with Haaland, so he can't make a leap for the ball:

View attachment 169564

Wasn't it the first time grealish went on the outside ?
Maybe because George showed him that way

 

[Bergen Blade]

Wasn't it the first time grealish went on the outside ?
Maybe because George showed him that way

No, the photo in my last post was almost identical with Grealish going on the outside and chipping towards the back post. Two seconds later:

 

[Frank the tank]

No, the photo in my last post was almost identical with Grealish going on the outside and chipping towards the back post. Two seconds later:

View attachment 169566

Oh yeah remember that one Baldock got a block.on it and ut lopped over

 

[groveblade]

On the first goal I think Anel should be closer to Baldock (more alongside him rather than behind)and they should cover one side each (e.g baldock ready to close down the outside route and Anel any cutting inside).
Grealish had travelled slowly into the box with the ball so there was no need to make it such a one on one in this instance, they had time to be more aggressive and two him up.

 

[cooperblade]

Only heard it once so may have remembered wrong but I think Hecky said (in the interview shown on MOTD2) that the plan was that when we had a covering defender, the first defender should be aggressive and try and win the ball back.

Robinson definitely seemed to be blaming Baldock for the goal and they were arguing about it.

 

[straight_outta_compton]

Love this analysis. Many thanks! Much more insightful than match of the day (who often state the obvious)

First of all I think we defended really well against Man City. Against such a world class team it was admirable that we managed to keep them out for so long. It took some individual brilliance to get them the two goals. And some sloppiness on our part, and there's a couple of things to work on.

First goal:

We're in a decent position, having enough men back to defend. Up to this point Baldock had been brilliant against Grealish. In this situation he's got AA behind him as a second defender. But Anel is a bit close to Baldock, maybe expecting Grealish to cut inside. But on this occasions Grealish goes to the byline:

View attachment 169526

And on this occasion he does get a yard on Baldock. In the same process Anel beomes awol as a 2nd defender, similar to Lowe vs Palace:

View attachment 169528 View attachment 169529
In my opinion both Anel and Lowe should have taken up a positions a bit further back from the 1st defender, enabling

1. them to step in if the attacker goes on the outside
2. the rest of the defence to concentrate on their marking

What happens when the 2nd defender is awol and the space behind the 1st defender (yellow area below) is too big? The rest of the defenders very often get drawn towards the ball.

Going back to the first photo, the red arrows show what Egan and JR will do, despite originally being in excellent positions:

View attachment 169531

So the cross comes in and Haaland can make a forward leap to attack the chipped back post cross. JR is on his heels and can't get high enough to challenge Haaland:

View attachment 169532

Conceding from crosses seem to be a bit of a problem so far, and the positioning of the second defender is one thing to work on.


Second goal:

Obviously Larouci should have cleared it when he had the chance. Everybody saw that and Larouci will be kicking himself. I'll concentrate on the other things that happened before the ball was in the net.

Moments before the ball was on the other side, where 2/3 of our central midfield, Bash and Souza, have been pulled over trying to stop a cross. The cross is brilliant, but JR manages to dive in to stop Haaland getting on the end of it. Now, notice Foden in the bottom left corner of this image:

View attachment 169534

Egan pats JR twice on the back for his challenge, but in the meantime Walker nicks the ball from Larouci and we're in trouble. Our centre halves gets to their feet, but can only get into protect-the-goal-mode while Man City have three unmarked targets (including Foden!) in the area and we never manage to get players covering this zone properly:

View attachment 169535

Walker picks out Foden, who has an awkward touch, but there is still no United player challenging as it falls to Rodri who blasts it in:

View attachment 169536

So key for this goal was that Man City managed to;

• pull Bash and Souza out of position
• have players (Walker and Foden in particular) not giving up on the attack when it looked finished
• show superb quality with Silva's cross and Rodri's finish

Things to consider for us:

• Avoiding both our two most defensively minded midfielders being pulled out to stop a deep cross
• Not switching off before the ball is definitely fully cleared. Again notice how Foden doesn't, despite being furthest from the action when the original cross went in from the left. When he could get into that key position, so could our two midfielders
• Reacting quicker to danger when Larouci fell over
• Fatigue. May be a big ask for Souza in particular to be expected to sprint back into the central position at that stage. Should he have been subbed?
• Depth marking in the box; could Egan (not marking anyone) have moved out quicker to mark/challenge Foden/Rodri?uch more insightful

 

[Bergen Blade]

Only heard it once so may have remembered wrong but I think Hecky said (in the interview shown on MOTD2) that the plan was that when we had a covering defender, the first defender should be aggressive and try and win the ball back.

Robinson definitely seemed to be blaming Baldock for the goal and they were arguing about it.

Yes, first defenders should be encouraged to be extra aggressive when the 2nd defender is covering. Even if the attacker skips past him he'll often be a bit off balance, meaning the second defender can nick in. It's a bit different when it's inside the box though, and certainly against the skill and falling ability of Grealish.

Hope they carry on the discussions in training and agree on the way to do it.

 

[Bergen Blade]

On the first goal I think Anel should be closer to Baldock (more alongside him rather than behind)and they should cover one side each (e.g baldock ready to close down the outside route and Anel any cutting inside).
Grealish had travelled slowly into the box with the ball so there was no need to make it such a one on one in this instance, they had time to be more aggressive and two him up.

Maybe that's what they tried?

Sometimes you can put an attacker off by doing that, but a general rule is that the second defender need to keep some depth.

 

[100% part time blade]

Only heard it once so may have remembered wrong but I think Hecky said (in the interview shown on MOTD2) that the plan was that when we had a covering defender, the first defender should be aggressive and try and win the ball back.

Robinson definitely seemed to be blaming Baldock for the goal and they were arguing about it.

I heard him saying this too, and it is clear the pair are very ‘passive’ in that moment, but I think it’s also really clever from Grealish. I think his drag to the byline is also just slightly diagonal towards the corner flag which gives him an extra bit of space to dig out the cross. He’s a great player, and exploited the moment perfectly to make the goal.

 

[tincan]

You are focusing on the goals, and the root of the errors and how they are avoidable. Your analysis also shows what a great team performance it was against the best team in the world, playing at their best and we restricted to them to a last minute winner. Play like this for the rest of the season and we'll be comfortably safe.

 

[groveblade]

Maybe that's what they tried?
View attachment 169594
Sometimes you can put an attacker off by doing that, but a general rule is that the second defender need to keep some depth.

Maybe, but...

Anel is doing nothing there. Baldock should be another yard towards our goal line and Anel accordingly closer to grealish's right foot. Then they would have good positions to be aggressive and drive grealish away from goal and be close enough to block any attempted cross etc