GoalWatch - our defending vs Swansea

[Bergen Blade]

1-1: A very good move from Swansea which starts with their goalkeeper and ends up with a close range finish from McBurnie. Why did we fail to stop them?

Wilder wants us to get after teams, press them high up the pitch, aiming to win the ball and to prevent them from playing.

So when their centre half passes back to their goalkeeper and we see him hesitate a bit before returning the pass back to the centre half, Lundstram decides to chase him:


Unfortunately, he's venturing into a zone where Clarke would be in a similarly good position to press. And the centre half does have unmarked options infield. He finds their no 10, who skilfully passes on to their right back before Fleck can get close to him:



So at this point our gegenpressing has failed and we're in trouble. Both strikers and two of our three central midfielders have been passed, and Swansea are moving forward.

Swansea deserves credit for their neat passing that follows as well, but I'd like to focus on Evans' action at this stage. He's our anchor, and on this occasion our only midfielder left, although both forwards try to help out. In my opinion he should be dropping deep, forming a shield in front of the centre halves, picking up runners or closing down down if they move in central. Instead he dives in as well:



As he can't quite get there we have no midfield left! Swansea's right back runs forward and has three unmarked central options in front of him, while we have only a striker (Clarke) rushing back in panic:



What happens next is panic defending and for me the damage is done. Defenders hate situations like these (being unprotected). Swansea continue their good movement into the box and our defenders can't cope. I won't even go into detail on the rest. We over-committed and were punished.




1-2: A long punt up from their centre half, why did it become a dangerous situation?

Again we try to press them after a back pass to their goalkeeper. Their goalkeeper still passes short to a centre half who passes back to the other centre half, who launches it upfield:



The ball is met by their central striker McBurnie and it is Basham who decides to push up to challenge him:



As can be seen they've kept their right winger high up and in a very wide position and the same is the case for Montero on the left (just outside the photo). I think it would have been better to let Basham mark Montero, Egan to deal with the meeting McBurnie and O'Connell to sweep up behind them.

As Egan don't mark McBurnie, Basham decides he's got to do it, meaning the pacey Montero is completely unmarked when the ball is flicked on. Again the damage is done and it is panic defending from here and in.

Egan can't stop Montero from crossing, we get men back, but they're all panicking and being sucked towards the ball, leaving three players unmarked further back:



Wilder is probably right that Stevens especially should stay with his man, but he's not alone and we should really be aiming to avoid situations like these to happen in the first place.

Egan challening McBurnie and Basham staying with Montero would have been better. Defenders can't be switching off even if the ball is deep in the opposition's half. It is called attacking marking and who's doing what should be very clear.



High pressing is generally good thing, but it can be risky, especially against skilful and quick players who are eager to counter attack.

 

[LSF]

Superb piece of analysis Bergen.

 

[thehet]

In essence, our defenders didn't defend, our midfield was abject and we were woefully outpaced.

 

[JohnDenver]

Montero has shredded a few Prem defences in his time. Great sub to have.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

That last photo says it all.
When the winger looks up to pick out a pass, he must have thought all his birthdays had come at once.
We rarely, if ever, have that luxury.

 

[Snowman]

1-1: A very good move from Swansea which starts with their goalkeeper and ends up with a close range finish from McBurnie. Why did we fail to stop them?

Wilder wants us to get after teams, press them high up the pitch, aiming to win the ball and to prevent them from playing.

So when their centre half passes back to their goalkeeper and we see him hesitate a bit before returning the pass back to the centre half, Lundstram decides to chase him:

View attachment 42618
Unfortunately, he's venturing into a zone where Clarke would be in a similarly good position to press. And the centre half does have unmarked options infield. He finds their no 10, who skilfully passes on to their right back before Fleck can get close to him:

View attachment 42619

So at this point our gegenpressing has failed and we're in trouble. Both strikers and two of our three central midfielders have been passed, and Swansea are moving forward.

Swansea deserves credit for their neat passing that follows as well, but I'd like to focus on Evans' action at this stage. He's our anchor, and on this occasion our only midfielder left, although both forwards try to help out. In my opinion he should be dropping deep, forming a shield in front of the centre halves, picking up runners or closing down down if they move in central. Instead he dives in as well:

View attachment 42621

As he can't quite get there we have no midfield left! Swansea's right back runs forward and has three unmarked central options in front of him, while we have only a striker (Clarke) rushing back in panic:

View attachment 42622

What happens next is panic defending and for me the damage is done. Defenders hate situations like these (being unprotected). Swansea continue their good movement into the box and our defenders can't cope. I won't even go into detail on the rest. We over-committed and were punished.




1-2: A long punt up from their centre half, why did it become a dangerous situation?

Again we try to press them after a back pass to their goalkeeper. Their goalkeeper still passes short to a centre half who passes back to the other centre half, who launches it upfield:

View attachment 42625

The ball is met by their central striker McBurnie and it is Basham who decides to push up to challenge him:

View attachment 42626

As can be seen they've kept their right winger high up and in a very wide position and the same is the case for Montero on the left (just outside the photo). I think it would have been better to let Basham mark Montero, Egan to deal with the meeting McBurnie and O'Connell to sweep up behind them.

As Egan don't mark McBurnie, Basham decides he's got to do it, meaning the pacey Montero is completely unmarked when the ball is flicked on. Again the damage is done and it is panic defending from here and in.

Egan can't stop Montero from crossing, we get men back, but they're all panicking and being sucked towards the ball, leaving three players unmarked further back:

View attachment 42627

Wilder is probably right that Stevens especially should stay with his man, but he's not alone and we should really be aiming to avoid situations like these to happen in the first place.

Egan challening McBurnie and Basham staying with Montero would have been better. Defenders can't be switching off even if the ball is deep in the opposition's half. It is called attacking marking and who's doing what should be very clear.



High pressing is generally good thing, but it can be risky, especially against skilful and quick players who are eager to counter attack.

Bergen Blade

Can you do us a learned dissertation on what actually John Lundstram is supposed to do and actually does in this team. Using your video analysis I would like to know why he spent some time trying to be a winger

 

[Russ]

A good analysis. I don’t think Wilder should have taken off a midfielder and put on a striker when it was 1-1. Maybe he should have taken off a striker or midfielder and put on a defender when it was 1-0. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[South Bucks]

So in the first photo Clark should have pressed but didn't which sucked Lunny out of position, why both of them did that I don't know.
Either all press or non press but if some press and others don't it doesn't work.

 

[Kenilworth]

A good analysis. I don’t think Wilder should have taken off a midfielder and put on a striker when it was 1-1. Maybe he should have taken off a striker or midfielder and put on a defender when it was 1-0. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Ken Jnr and I both stated at the time he should have changed the substitution when Woodburn was just about to come on and they pegged us back to 1-1 Wilder should have brought Duffy on instead.
We'd agreed that Woodburn on at 1-0 was a reasonable move and we could have stretched them further but at 1-1 the game had already changed in that split second. Duffy would have been a far better introduction to create something and re-establish a forward momentum as Duffy knows his part in the system. As it is the kid looked lost and we never regained any real period of dominance.

 

[Kenilworth]

So in the first photo Clark should have pressed but didn't which sucked Lunny out of position, why both of them did that I don't know.
Either all press or non press but if some press and others don't it doesn't work.

Noticed a few times there was a lone press. Too easy to isolate one if the others don't press at the same time

 

[Rob86]

Hopefully if we get ahead at Boro we will not have 3 pressing the keeper and centre half and maybe just look to counter ourselves.

The 2nd is schoolboy follow the ball defending. I knew it was bad but didn’t realise we’d got 4 players and McBurnie arpind the 6 yard box and he’s in 5 yards of space !!

I don’t want us to be a team that goes 1-0 up and then drops deep to see it out, but with 20 mins to go, surely the pressing needs to be a bit less high.

Sure it’ll all be sorted for Boro

 

[robbiez666]

Nice analysis Bergen Blade

We high-press in a kamikaze fashion at times. At one point we were outnumbering them in and around the box and I was desperately hoping they didn't move it quickly. If we're going to hunt in packs we need to be completely organised. If one player messes up then we're in trouble. They all have to work for each other and be intelligent to know when they need to cover.

 

[metalblade]

Not even pub team defending especially for the 2nd

 

[super_pig]

Not even pub team defending especially for the 2nd

could that have even happened with jake or steersman in the pitch?

 

[super_pig]

1-1: A very good move from Swansea which starts with their goalkeeper and ends up with a close range finish from McBurnie. Why did we fail to stop them?

Wilder wants us to get after teams, press them high up the pitch, aiming to win the ball and to prevent them from playing.

So when their centre half passes back to their goalkeeper and we see him hesitate a bit before returning the pass back to the centre half, Lundstram decides to chase him:

View attachment 42618
Unfortunately, he's venturing into a zone where Clarke would be in a similarly good position to press. And the centre half does have unmarked options infield. He finds their no 10, who skilfully passes on to their right back before Fleck can get close to him:

View attachment 42619

So at this point our gegenpressing has failed and we're in trouble. Both strikers and two of our three central midfielders have been passed, and Swansea are moving forward.

Swansea deserves credit for their neat passing that follows as well, but I'd like to focus on Evans' action at this stage. He's our anchor, and on this occasion our only midfielder left, although both forwards try to help out. In my opinion he should be dropping deep, forming a shield in front of the centre halves, picking up runners or closing down down if they move in central. Instead he dives in as well:

View attachment 42621

As he can't quite get there we have no midfield left! Swansea's right back runs forward and has three unmarked central options in front of him, while we have only a striker (Clarke) rushing back in panic:

View attachment 42622

What happens next is panic defending and for me the damage is done. Defenders hate situations like these (being unprotected). Swansea continue their good movement into the box and our defenders can't cope. I won't even go into detail on the rest. We over-committed and were punished.




1-2: A long punt up from their centre half, why did it become a dangerous situation?

Again we try to press them after a back pass to their goalkeeper. Their goalkeeper still passes short to a centre half who passes back to the other centre half, who launches it upfield:

View attachment 42625

The ball is met by their central striker McBurnie and it is Basham who decides to push up to challenge him:

View attachment 42626

As can be seen they've kept their right winger high up and in a very wide position and the same is the case for Montero on the left (just outside the photo). I think it would have been better to let Basham mark Montero, Egan to deal with the meeting McBurnie and O'Connell to sweep up behind them.

As Egan don't mark McBurnie, Basham decides he's got to do it, meaning the pacey Montero is completely unmarked when the ball is flicked on. Again the damage is done and it is panic defending from here and in.

Egan can't stop Montero from crossing, we get men back, but they're all panicking and being sucked towards the ball, leaving three players unmarked further back:

View attachment 42627

Wilder is probably right that Stevens especially should stay with his man, but he's not alone and we should really be aiming to avoid situations like these to happen in the first place.

Egan challening McBurnie and Basham staying with Montero would have been better. Defenders can't be switching off even if the ball is deep in the opposition's half. It is called attacking marking and who's doing what should be very clear.



High pressing is generally good thing, but it can be risky, especially against skilful and quick players who are eager to counter attack.

superb mate great work much appreciated

 

[Bladesman]

What is Geocel?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Montero has shredded a few Prem defences in his time. Great sub to have.

I think Swansea's new manager will be pleased with the way he managed this game, and he seemed well prepared. I think they have some good players and probably additions to come in, so may be in for a good season.

 

[Bergen Blade]

That last photo says it all.
When the winger looks up to pick out a pass, he must have thought all his birthdays had come at once.
We rarely, if ever, have that luxury.

I agree that our counter attacking has gradually become worse. It's going to be hard for us if we'll be relying on scoring goals only after carving through teams with brilliant passing and great movement (which to be fair, we did when we scored our goal on Saturday).

 

[SwissBlade]

Bergen Blade brilliant work as ever.

Something which we tried against Inter Milan was the Evans and Lundstram sitting deeper with Fleck being pushed further forward. Personally I think this worked better as Evans and Lundstram naturally sit in. Fleck does it because he can control the game better there when Duffy is ahead of him.

However for most of the game Duffy wasn’t on the pitch and we had nobody bridging that gap between midfield and strikers, meaning that the strikers were isolated and neither was willing to drop in (Something which Billy can do well)

Lessons certainly need to be learnt

 

[Adiroy]

Think if they didnt put that second in then it would have been a peno anyway!

 

[Beans]

Brilliant stuff Bergen Blade, cheers for putting that together!

 

[Bergen Blade]

Bergen Blade

Can you do us a learned dissertation on what actually John Lundstram is supposed to do and actually does in this team. Using your video analysis I would like to know why he spent some time trying to be a winger

Beans has gone into detail on Lundstram's attacking impact, which was probably better than what most of us thought.

I think the biggest reason for Wilder inverting the midfield triangle is defensive. Lundstram as the right sided central midfielder gives us another body across midfield, which is helpful, especially when the opposition turns play from one side to the other. I've tried to show this by editing a screenshot from the Inter game:

This was how we lined up:



i.e. a trio where Evans is central and most often the deepest.

If we'd used the other variant with Duffy advanced in front of Evans and Fleck, it may have looked like this:


i.e. lots of more space for the opposition to run into, more ground that other players would have had to cover.

Although the latter has been our most common formation I think there's always been a potential weakness there. Most League One teams didn't have the quality to punish us as they usually had to concentrate more on stopping us. With Coutts we also had an extremely composed playmaker who very rarely gave the ball away and there was generally excellent rhythm to our passing and movement.

Without Coutts we haven't quite managed to do the same. I remember Wilder commenting on teams choosing to defend deep against Man City, suggesting it could be a better option to get after them and play more offensively. Later that season we confidently tried that away at Wolves and Fulham, lining up with an attacking midfielder behind two strikers and pressing high up the pitch. We were largely outplayed and lost both 3-0. Our tactics proved to be naive.

A combination of us not being quite as good without Coutts and us playing better teams has forced Wilder to at least develop a more solid formation, hence Lundstram (and on occasions Leonard) giving us an extra body across midfield. I'm sure he'll confess that we're losing some creativity, and he'll be disappointed that Leonard hasn't been able to impress. It's been successful in some games, like at Norwich and vs Inter, but it remains to be seen if the current selection can make it work on a regular basis.

 

[Snowman]

Beans has gone into detail on Lundstram's attacking impact, which was probably better than what most of us thought.

I think the biggest reason for Wilder inverting the midfield triangle is defensive. Lundstram as the right sided central midfielder gives us another body across midfield, which is helpful, especially when the opposition turns play from one side to the other. I've tried to show this by editing a screenshot from the Inter game:

This was how we lined up:

View attachment 42642

i.e. a trio where Evans is central and most often the deepest.

If we'd used the other variant with Duffy advanced in front of Evans and Fleck, it may have looked like this:

View attachment 42643
i.e. lots of more space for the opposition to run into, more ground that other players would have had to cover.

Although the latter has been our most common formation I think there's always been a potential weakness there. Most League One teams didn't have the quality to punish us as they usually had to concentrate more on stopping us. With Coutts we also had an extremely composed playmaker who very rarely gave the ball away and there was generally excellent rhythm to our passing and movement.

Without Coutts we haven't quite managed to do the same. I remember Wilder commenting on teams choosing to defend deep against Man City, suggesting it could be a better option to get after them and play more offensively. Later that season we confidently tried that away at Wolves and Fulham, lining up with an attacking midfielder behind two strikers and pressing high up the pitch. We were largely outplayed and lost both 3-0. Our tactics proved to be naive.

A combination of us not being quite as good without Coutts and us playing better teams has forced Wilder to at least develop a more solid formation, hence Lundstram (and on occasions Leonard) giving us an extra body across midfield. I'm sure he'll confess that we're losing some creativity, and he'll be disappointed that Leonard hasn't been able to impress. It's been successful in some games, like at Norwich and vs Inter, but it remains to be seen if the current selection can make it work on a regular basis.

Thanks. Yes it was my impression that when we were defending he was having to make a lot of runs out from the middle to that side (galloping I said in another post) to cover the gaps and when we was taken off nobody was shifted over to that task. Other than that job which he did well, he just didn't seem to have a structured role on the attacking game. Maybe it was the change you mention that confused all of them.

 

[Champagneblade]

In essence, our defenders didn't defend, our midfield was abject and we were woefully outpaced.

Are you describing the goals or the 90 minutes as a whole?

 

[RammyBlade]

In essence, our defenders didn't defend, our midfield was abject and we were woefully outpaced.

But apart from that ......what were we like ?

 

[thehet]

But apart from that ......what were we like ?

Best performance of the season so far.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

Great analysis. Thanks for that.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Wilder's take on the first goal, seems he saw it similarly:

""For that one, we had three midfielders ahead of our centre-forwards," he said. "Is that a naivety or an enthusiasm? "Leon (Clarke) was the guy trying to make the tackle because he was having to fill in. It shouldn't be like that. "Don't be embarrassed if the other team has the ball. Don't be obsessed by having the ball all the time. "Listen, I'll bark at people if they don't go after the ball when they should be. But I won't bark at people if they're not running when they should be sitting in."

"In a way it's a positive though," Wilder continued. "There's an honesty about the group that, possibly, if they don't run and go to press they feel bad. I trust the group though. It's about saying 'I trust you to sit back and not to press' in certain situations. Listen, if have a chance to get at the opposition, we want to take it. But we're not up against mug players and mug sides. If we go steaming in, we'll get caught. And we did."

Read more at: https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/she...eir-hearts-at-middlesbrough-tonight-1-9288429

 

[Gavlar]

1-1: A very good move from Swansea which starts with their goalkeeper and ends up with a close range finish from McBurnie. Why did we fail to stop them?

Wilder wants us to get after teams, press them high up the pitch, aiming to win the ball and to prevent them from playing.

So when their centre half passes back to their goalkeeper and we see him hesitate a bit before returning the pass back to the centre half, Lundstram decides to chase him:

View attachment 42618
Unfortunately, he's venturing into a zone where Clarke would be in a similarly good position to press. And the centre half does have unmarked options infield. He finds their no 10, who skilfully passes on to their right back before Fleck can get close to him:

View attachment 42619

So at this point our gegenpressing has failed and we're in trouble. Both strikers and two of our three central midfielders have been passed, and Swansea are moving forward.

Swansea deserves credit for their neat passing that follows as well, but I'd like to focus on Evans' action at this stage. He's our anchor, and on this occasion our only midfielder left, although both forwards try to help out. In my opinion he should be dropping deep, forming a shield in front of the centre halves, picking up runners or closing down down if they move in central. Instead he dives in as well:

View attachment 42621

As he can't quite get there we have no midfield left! Swansea's right back runs forward and has three unmarked central options in front of him, while we have only a striker (Clarke) rushing back in panic:

View attachment 42622

What happens next is panic defending and for me the damage is done. Defenders hate situations like these (being unprotected). Swansea continue their good movement into the box and our defenders can't cope. I won't even go into detail on the rest. We over-committed and were punished.




1-2: A long punt up from their centre half, why did it become a dangerous situation?

Again we try to press them after a back pass to their goalkeeper. Their goalkeeper still passes short to a centre half who passes back to the other centre half, who launches it upfield:

View attachment 42625

The ball is met by their central striker McBurnie and it is Basham who decides to push up to challenge him:

View attachment 42626

As can be seen they've kept their right winger high up and in a very wide position and the same is the case for Montero on the left (just outside the photo). I think it would have been better to let Basham mark Montero, Egan to deal with the meeting McBurnie and O'Connell to sweep up behind them.

As Egan don't mark McBurnie, Basham decides he's got to do it, meaning the pacey Montero is completely unmarked when the ball is flicked on. Again the damage is done and it is panic defending from here and in.

Egan can't stop Montero from crossing, we get men back, but they're all panicking and being sucked towards the ball, leaving three players unmarked further back:

View attachment 42627

Wilder is probably right that Stevens especially should stay with his man, but he's not alone and we should really be aiming to avoid situations like these to happen in the first place.

Egan challening McBurnie and Basham staying with Montero would have been better. Defenders can't be switching off even if the ball is deep in the opposition's half. It is called attacking marking and who's doing what should be very clear.



High pressing is generally good thing, but it can be risky, especially against skilful and quick players who are eager to counter attack.

I hear you Bergs. The only thing I can add is, Bash to me looked woefully out of place on sat. Outpaced regularly, should have been booked for diving for a pen. Montero would have slaughtered him in my view.