Goalwatch: Goals Conceded

[Balham]

Bergen Blade 's analysis of the goals we've scored this season got me thinking about those we've conceded. I've looked back over the season so far and have grouped them into a number of buckets. This is of course subjective; what I'd consider an organised defence is probably different to what others would; my basic rule is to consider whether the defenders are facing towards or away from our goal during the immediate build up. I've also only considered a goal to come from a set piece if it's scored on first phase play (so, for example, the goal away at Bristol City was from open play even though it stemmed from a half-cleared corner).
The headlines are that we don't concede many goals at all from set pieces and we have yet to concede a penalty this season, let alone a goal from a penalty. If we have a vulnerability it's to low crosses between the six yard line and the penalty spot but then which side isn't? We also have stopped conceding goals from outside the area: I counted three this season, all of which were low shots (Eze at QPR, Allen against Stoke and Taylor at Rotherham). The two from open play came through a lot of bodies - Taylor's took a huge deflection off Basham on its way in: we've stopped giving decent players time to pick a spot and put a curling effort into the top corner which was a real weakness last season.

Swansea (H) L1-2
McBurnie 1-1: reacts quickest to a rebound after a decent save from Henderson. We had 9 men in the box of whom 4 were in the six yard box.
Dhanda 1-2: counter attack - we end up with lots of men back but no organisation. Montero crosses, McKay brings the ball down but is then chopped down by O'Connell, Dhanda buries the loose ball

Middlesbrough (A) L0-3
Braithwaite 0-1: reacts quickest after a corner isn't dealt with
Flint 0-2: header from a corner
Downing 0-3: fortuitously converts a deep cross

QPR (A) W2-1
Eze 0-1: cross half cleared, Eze slams it into the bottom corner from the edge of the area

Bolton (A) W3-0
n/a

Norwich (H) W2-1
Rhodes 1-1: low cross into the six yard box converted by the on-loan Wednesday man

Aston Villa (H) W4-1
El Ghazi 1-1: beats the offside trap despite our defence being on the edge of our area and finishes from 10 yards

Bristol C (A) L0-1
Watkins 0-1: speculative header loops in after a poor corner is recycled

Birmingham C (H) D0-0
n/a

Preston NE (H) W3-2
Robinson 2-1: converts a low right wing cross from 8 yards
Johnson 2-2: converts a low left wing cross from 8 yards with the aid of a massive deflection off Basham. Question marks over the space given to the winger to cross in the first place (|Freeman picking up the wrong man)

Millwall (A) W3-2
Cooper 1-1: header from a corner
Gregory 1-2: set free by a through ball (from Leonard of all people)

Blackburn (A) W2-0
n/a

Hull C (H) W1-0
n/a

Frank Lampard's Derby County (A) L1-2
Bryson 0-1: we don't touch the ball from kick off to goal. Bryson scores from the edge of the box after good work from Mount
Marriott 1-2: flicks a left wing cross beyond Henderson (Freeman gives too much space)

Stoke C (H) D1-1
Allen 1-1: low free kick somehow gets through Henderson

Wigan A (H) W4-2
Naismith 1-1: counter attack ends with Naismith scoring at the far post. Henderson gets a decent block but not enough to divert the ball past the post
Garner 4-2: hooks in a right wing cross

Forest (A) L0-1
Carvalho goes past a static Freeman, fires in a cross which Grabban flicks into the corner

Wednesday (H) L0-0
n/a

Rotherham (A) D2-2
Taylor 1-1: panicked defence sees a poor header buried from the edge of the area with aid of a huge deflection off Basham
Proctor 2-2: catalogue of errors. Stevens dives in, Norwood panics and toe-ends the ball to Proctor who scores from 12 yards

Brentford (A) W3-2
Maupay 0-1: Basham caught out of position, decent through ball finds Maupay who scores with a deflected effort
Fleck OG 2-2: right wing cross goes in after a double deflection, first off Stevens then off Fleck

 

[SwissBlade]

Is this what you did last night instead of joining us at the match? Bloody red button

 

[Balham]

Is this what you did last night instead of joining us at the match? Bloody red button

It's what I've done this morning instead of getting on with my job

 

[SwissBlade]

It's what I've done this morning instead of getting on with my job

That’s good then! Always better to cost the company money when foruming

 

[The Fox]

It's an intresting analysis but on its own doesn't tell us much . Are our ratios any different , better , worse than other clubs in our division . I therefore suggest you spend the rest of the week compiling something better

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Run it again and this time tell us who’s fault it was will yer?

 

[Booker4]

Bergen Blade 's analysis of the goals we've scored this season got me thinking about those we've conceded. I've looked back over the season so far and have grouped them into a number of buckets. This is of course subjective; what I'd consider an organised defence is probably different to what others would; my basic rule is to consider whether the defenders are facing towards or away from our goal during the immediate build up. I've also only considered a goal to come from a set piece if it's scored on first phase play (so, for example, the goal away at Bristol City was from open play even though it stemmed from a half-cleared corner).
The headlines are that we don't concede many goals at all from set pieces and we have yet to concede a penalty this season, let alone a goal from a penalty. If we have a vulnerability it's to low crosses between the six yard line and the penalty spot but then which side isn't? We also have stopped conceding goals from outside the area: I counted three this season, all of which were low shots (Eze at QPR, Allen against Stoke and Taylor at Rotherham). The two from open play came through a lot of bodies - Taylor's took a huge deflection off Basham on its way in: we've stopped giving decent players time to pick a spot and put a curling effort into the top corner which was a real weakness last season.

Swansea (H) L1-2
McBurnie 1-1: reacts quickest to a rebound after a decent save from Henderson. We had 9 men in the box of whom 4 were in the six yard box.
Dhanda 1-2: counter attack - we end up with lots of men back but no organisation. Montero crosses, McKay brings the ball down but is then chopped down by O'Connell, Dhanda buries the loose ball

Middlesbrough (A) L0-3
Braithwaite 0-1: reacts quickest after a corner isn't dealt with
Flint 0-2: header from a corner
Downing 0-3: fortuitously converts a deep cross

QPR (A) W2-1
Eze 0-1: cross half cleared, Eze slams it into the bottom corner from the edge of the area

Bolton (A) W3-0
n/a

Norwich (H) W2-1
Rhodes 1-1: low cross into the six yard box converted by the on-loan Wednesday man

Aston Villa (H) W4-1
El Ghazi 1-1: beats the offside trap despite our defence being on the edge of our area and finishes from 10 yards

Bristol C (A) L0-1
Watkins 0-1: speculative header loops in after a poor corner is recycled

Birmingham C (H) D0-0
n/a

Preston NE (H) W3-2
Robinson 2-1: converts a low right wing cross from 8 yards
Johnson 2-2: converts a low left wing cross from 8 yards with the aid of a massive deflection off Basham. Question marks over the space given to the winger to cross in the first place (|Freeman picking up the wrong man)

Millwall (A) W3-2
Cooper 1-1: header from a corner
Gregory 1-2: set free by a through ball (from Leonard of all people)

Blackburn (A) W2-0
n/a

Hull C (H) W1-0
n/a

Frank Lampard's Derby County (A) L1-2
Bryson 0-1: we don't touch the ball from kick off to goal. Bryson scores from the edge of the box after good work from Mount
Marriott 1-2: flicks a left wing cross beyond Henderson (Freeman gives too much space)

Stoke C (H) D1-1
Allen 1-1: low free kick somehow gets through Henderson

Wigan A (H) W4-2
Naismith 1-1: counter attack ends with Naismith scoring at the far post. Henderson gets a decent block but not enough to divert the ball past the post
Garner 4-2: hooks in a right wing cross

Forest (A) L0-1
Carvalho goes past a static Freeman, fires in a cross which Grabban flicks into the corner

Wednesday (H) L0-0
n/a

Rotherham (A) D2-2
Taylor 1-1: panicked defence sees a poor header buried from the edge of the area with aid of a huge deflection off Basham
Proctor 2-2: catalogue of errors. Stevens dives in, Norwood panics and toe-ends the ball to Proctor who scores from 12 yards

Brentford (A) W3-2
Maupay 0-1: Basham caught out of position, decent through ball finds Maupay who scores with a deflected effort
Fleck OG 2-2: right wing cross goes in after a double deflection, first off Stevens then off Fleck

View attachment 46400

Great effort but sorry I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing, it would have taken 5 minutes I'd never get back! ;-)

 

[Topplayersleave]

We'll always concede goals while playing defender wag with not very good defenders

 

[Balham]

It's an intresting analysis but on its own doesn't tell us much . Are our ratios any different , better , worse than other clubs in our division . I therefore suggest you spend the rest of the week compiling something better

Thanks for that. Why don't you pull something together to show me how it's done?

 

[The Fox]

Thanks for that. Why don't you pull something together to show me how it's done?

It was massively tongue in cheek , the smiley winky emoji thing I added seamed to be missing but that's tech for you ...

 

[bornablade]

Run it again and this time tell us who’s fault it was will yer?

Bentley's.

 

[Balham]

It was massively tongue in cheek , the smiley winky emoji thing I added seamed to be missing but that's tech for you ...

I did wonder! I thought of a witty repartee afterwards but it was too late to edit it. FWIW: the forum has a limited selection of emojis available; they're in the menu behind the smiley face above . Foxy has his priorities right, there's a shark and a fat twat

 

[RealMcCoy]

Nope, emojis appear on screen, then disappear when posted.

I’ve always assumed it’s a feature of the iPad
Edit: well that’s a first!!

 

[moDtheGod]

It was massively tongue in cheek , the smiley winky emoji thing I added seamed to be missing but that's tech for you ...

But in fairness, there's a good chunk of truth in it.

All very interesting though BBB, still worth a like from me.

 

[Balham]

But in fairness, there's a good chunk of truth in it.

All very interesting though BBB, still worth a like from me.

I'd channel my inner Wilder in response: no point worrying about what other sides are doing.

It does, however, feel like we're conceding far fewer 'worldies' this season which is testament mainly to the work the midfielders are doing. My instinct is that we concede too many decent chances from wingers being able to get to the edge of the area and put a low ball in; probably a communication thing with the central defenders needing to get tighter in the area and the wing backs being more aware of their opponents' stronger foot (eg against Forest Freeman allowing Carvalho to cut back on his right foot being an example - it seems to me that he [Freeman] expected a drive to the byline and left footed cross).

Nothing is structurally wrong - which is why we've yet to concede from a corner or indirect free kick - but it's the application that's not quite 100%. That said, we've got a defence where 3 of the five played for us in League One and one of the remaining two was signed from League Two so maybe 95% application against Championship forwards is as good as it's going to get.

 

[moDtheGod]

I'd channel my inner Wilder in response: no point worrying about what other sides are doing.

It's not only other sides though (though that would be interesting). We've conceded 3 from outside the area, for example - how many shots have been taken against us from that range though? If opponents have collectively only had 3 shots, that's 100% and indicates it's still a problem.

 

[blade too long]

not as leaky as villa and forest

 

[The Fox]

I did wonder! I thought of a witty repartee afterwards but it was too late to edit it. FWIW: the forum has a limited selection of emojis available; they're in the menu behind the smiley face above . Foxy has his priorities right, there's a shark and a fat twat

Thanks , not much you can do with a shark and a fat twat ... anyway back to the original point , I honestly wouldn't know if the way we conceded goals is the sign of a successful team , style of defending or how it compares with others . I'd leave that for the statistics specialists .. On the stats thing we had 75% procession in the derby for a 0-0 . Brentford was 35% in a 3-2 win .. don't know what that says except football is bonkers and unpredictable and hopefully will remain so .

 

[Bergen Blade]

Bergen Blade 's analysis of the goals we've scored this season got me thinking about those we've conceded. I've looked back over the season so far and have grouped them into a number of buckets. This is of course subjective; what I'd consider an organised defence is probably different to what others would; my basic rule is to consider whether the defenders are facing towards or away from our goal during the immediate build up. I've also only considered a goal to come from a set piece if it's scored on first phase play (so, for example, the goal away at Bristol City was from open play even though it stemmed from a half-cleared corner).
The headlines are that we don't concede many goals at all from set pieces and we have yet to concede a penalty this season, let alone a goal from a penalty. If we have a vulnerability it's to low crosses between the six yard line and the penalty spot but then which side isn't? We also have stopped conceding goals from outside the area: I counted three this season, all of which were low shots (Eze at QPR, Allen against Stoke and Taylor at Rotherham). The two from open play came through a lot of bodies - Taylor's took a huge deflection off Basham on its way in: we've stopped giving decent players time to pick a spot and put a curling effort into the top corner which was a real weakness last season.

Swansea (H) L1-2
McBurnie 1-1: reacts quickest to a rebound after a decent save from Henderson. We had 9 men in the box of whom 4 were in the six yard box.
Dhanda 1-2: counter attack - we end up with lots of men back but no organisation. Montero crosses, McKay brings the ball down but is then chopped down by O'Connell, Dhanda buries the loose ball

Middlesbrough (A) L0-3
Braithwaite 0-1: reacts quickest after a corner isn't dealt with
Flint 0-2: header from a corner
Downing 0-3: fortuitously converts a deep cross

QPR (A) W2-1
Eze 0-1: cross half cleared, Eze slams it into the bottom corner from the edge of the area

Bolton (A) W3-0
n/a

Norwich (H) W2-1
Rhodes 1-1: low cross into the six yard box converted by the on-loan Wednesday man

Aston Villa (H) W4-1
El Ghazi 1-1: beats the offside trap despite our defence being on the edge of our area and finishes from 10 yards

Bristol C (A) L0-1
Watkins 0-1: speculative header loops in after a poor corner is recycled

Birmingham C (H) D0-0
n/a

Preston NE (H) W3-2
Robinson 2-1: converts a low right wing cross from 8 yards
Johnson 2-2: converts a low left wing cross from 8 yards with the aid of a massive deflection off Basham. Question marks over the space given to the winger to cross in the first place (|Freeman picking up the wrong man)

Millwall (A) W3-2
Cooper 1-1: header from a corner
Gregory 1-2: set free by a through ball (from Leonard of all people)

Blackburn (A) W2-0
n/a

Hull C (H) W1-0
n/a

Frank Lampard's Derby County (A) L1-2
Bryson 0-1: we don't touch the ball from kick off to goal. Bryson scores from the edge of the box after good work from Mount
Marriott 1-2: flicks a left wing cross beyond Henderson (Freeman gives too much space)

Stoke C (H) D1-1
Allen 1-1: low free kick somehow gets through Henderson

Wigan A (H) W4-2
Naismith 1-1: counter attack ends with Naismith scoring at the far post. Henderson gets a decent block but not enough to divert the ball past the post
Garner 4-2: hooks in a right wing cross

Forest (A) L0-1
Carvalho goes past a static Freeman, fires in a cross which Grabban flicks into the corner

Wednesday (H) L0-0
n/a

Rotherham (A) D2-2
Taylor 1-1: panicked defence sees a poor header buried from the edge of the area with aid of a huge deflection off Basham
Proctor 2-2: catalogue of errors. Stevens dives in, Norwood panics and toe-ends the ball to Proctor who scores from 12 yards

Brentford (A) W3-2
Maupay 0-1: Basham caught out of position, decent through ball finds Maupay who scores with a deflected effort
Fleck OG 2-2: right wing cross goes in after a double deflection, first off Stevens then off Fleck

View attachment 46400

The definitions are sometimes difficult. Regarding the Bristol City goal I'm struggling to make my mind up. Yes, the corner was half cleared, but we're keeping a defending corner kick shape with plenty of players back. The corner taker who gets the ball back is closed down by our striker (McGoldrick) and right back (Freeman), an unusual duo if this is open play, considering it's down our left.

Also, looking at Brentford's opening goal, when does the attack start? A key thing about these analyses is to identify what makes situations dangerous. Does the attacking team carve the defending team open through good passing? Or do they win the ball in a good area and take advantage of the defending team's momentary vulnerability.

This does look like an open play situation against our established ("anticipating") defence (consisting of a line of midfield and all defenders). They've got past Washington, but we're in balance with many player behind the ball:



They play through our (far too flat) midfield, but we (Norwood) do actually manage to get a tackle in on their player:



Norwood's touch on the ball, means their string of passes are broken, and although we don't get the ball under control, we do manage to stop what their player was trying to do. There is then a loose ball, which Sawyers picks up, and it can be argued that this is where their attack starts - they pick up the ball in a good area and they are facing an unestablished ("unbalanced?" "unprotected"?) defence:



Small things like these can make it difficult to categorise and analyse.

In any case, the main problem for me on that goal was the lack of depth of our midfield, they were too flat, which meant there was a too big gap between our midfield and defence. This forced Basham out and the remaining defenders were too high up to prevent the ball in behind when the ball fell to Sawyers.

 

[JohnDenver]

Nope, emojis appear on screen, then disappear when posted.

I’ve always assumed it’s a feature of the iPad
Edit: well that’s a first!!

You need to use the ones foxy has provided in the editor. There are loads more behind the emoji button on your iPad but only a few of them will work in this site.

 

[Snowman]

The definitions are sometimes difficult. Regarding the Bristol City goal I'm struggling to make my mind up. Yes, the corner was half cleared, but we're keeping a defending corner kick shape with plenty of players back. The corner taker who gets the ball back is closed down by our striker (McGoldrick) and right back (Freeman), an unusual duo if this is open play, considering it's down our left.

Also, looking at Brentford's opening goal, when does the attack start? A key thing about these analyses is to identify what makes situations dangerous. Does the attacking team carve the defending team open through good passing? Or do they win the ball in a good area and take advantage of the defending team's momentary vulnerability.

This does look like an open play situation against our established ("anticipating") defence (consisting of a line of midfield and all defenders). They've got past Washington, but we're in balance with many player behind the ball:

View attachment 46462

They play through our (far too flat) midfield, but we (Norwood) do actually manage to get a tackle in on their player:

View attachment 46463

Norwood's touch on the ball, means their string of passes are broken, and although we don't get the ball under control, we do manage to stop what their player was trying to do. There is then a loose ball, which Sawyers picks up, and it can be argued that this is where their attack starts - they pick up the ball in a good area and they are facing an unestablished ("unbalanced?" "unprotected"?) defence:

View attachment 46466

Small things like these can make it difficult to categorise and analyse.

In any case, the main problem for me on that goal was the lack of depth of our midfield, they were too flat, which meant there was a too big gap between our midfield and defence. This forced Basham out and the remaining defenders were too high up to prevent the ball in behind when the ball fell to Sawyers.

I think that is a very fair and accurate summary (apart from the lack of criticism of John Lundstram who was slow reacting to Norwood's powderpuff tackle and because he has the name Lundstram anyway). What you really mean BB was that the flat 3/5 in midfield was breached and had we had someone coming-out of defence creating fucking havoc into that midfield area to assist destroying the breaking Brentford player, the goal would never have happened. This to me is the problem. I don't rate or like Lundstram as a footballer in this team. This could possibly be because he can't fit into how we have lined up for two years. However, tell me if I'm pissed and stupid if you want, but had Lundstram been playing at the base of a diamond, or one of a midfield four as I have advocated before, the Brentford kid would have been wiped out before making the pass. He has his uses and may turn out to be very useful in the future if we develop that way.