Girls and football?

[PokerBlade]

Of course the BBC should have some limited coverage of women's football at the national level. Look at many other sports like athletics or tennis and while the men are a generally higher standard it doesn't interfere with the interest in the women. It's enjoyed for what it is. I don't know if many follow MMA, but the UFC introduced women fighters not too long back. They invested good money in it, put the fights on the major PPV events, and very quickly stepped forward some highly entertaining competitors. Recently some of those fights have drawn in their best ratings. That any of the women would lose to any of the men on the circuit isn't really important. All that matters is if they can make the sport great for spectators. Women's football has a way to go but having followed the Olympics and the World Cup it looks like it's at least on the way.

There has to be some exposure and investment to help improve standards, and without standards there's not attraction to gain more exposure and investment. The BBC certainly seem like the body which should be responsible for giving the national team some air time, and it's no worse than some of the shite programming they regularly schedule.

But there is a strong argument to say that true equality comes with the right to be bad. Any male keeper making this error would be doing the rounds on social media and getting rightly mocked. She hesitates, watches three bounces, and then kicks the air five yards away from the ball. Hilariously bad mistake.

Before the USA's women's team won the Olympics in '12 they played some warm-up matches. One of them was against the US U17's. The U17's won 8-2. It's only truth to say how far behind the men's game they are. What I don't think is fair is to extend this into saying that therefore a network like the BBC shouldn't cover our national team. Or that showing games, or having a section for them on their website, is pushing some dark PC agenda. There's far more shit things to watch on the telly almost 24 hours a day.

 

[travellingblade]

So where do Notts County Ladies play now?

Meadow Lane - a pre-condition of the FA agreeing to the move.

 

[Bert]

Of course the BBC should have some limited coverage of women's football at the national level. Look at many other sports like athletics or tennis and while the men are a generally higher standard it doesn't interfere with the interest in the women. It's enjoyed for what it is. I don't know if many follow MMA, but the UFC introduced women fighters not too long back. They invested good money in it, put the fights on the major PPV events, and very quickly stepped forward some highly entertaining competitors. Recently some of those fights have drawn in their best ratings. That any of the women would lose to any of the men on the circuit isn't really important. All that matters is if they can make the sport great for spectators. Women's football has a way to go but having followed the Olympics and the World Cup it looks like it's at least on the way.

There has to be some exposure and investment to help improve standards, and without standards there's not attraction to gain more exposure and investment. The BBC certainly seem like the body which should be responsible for giving the national team some air time, and it's no worse than some of the shite programming they regularly schedule.

But there is a strong argument to say that true equality comes with the right to be bad. Any male keeper making this error would be doing the rounds on social media and getting rightly mocked. She hesitates, watches three bounces, and then kicks the air five yards away from the ball. Hilariously bad mistake.

Before the USA's women's team won the Olympics in '12 they played some warm-up matches. One of them was against the US U17's. The U17's won 8-2. It's only truth to say how far behind the men's game they are. What I don't think is fair is to extend this into saying that therefore a network like the BBC shouldn't cover our national team. Or that showing games, or having a section for them on their website, is pushing some dark PC agenda. There's far more shit things to watch on the telly almost 24 hours a day.

But it's very clear that in the last year the BBC has suddenly started to promote women's football and cricket both on TV and on their websites far more than they ever have done in the last ten years. There has clearly been a change of policy which hasn't been dictated by a rapid rise in the popularity of these women's sports.

Bert has never seen a game of women's cricket, doesn't know where they play it or has ever heard anyone speak of it and yet it's all over the BBC websites and was even on the national news.

 

[PokerBlade]

But it's very clear that in the last year the BBC has suddenly started to promote women's football and cricket both on TV and on their websites far more than they ever have done in the last ten years. There has clearly been a change of policy which hasn't been dictated by a rapid rise in the popularity of these women's sports.

Bert has never seen a game of women's cricket, doesn't know where they play it or has ever heard anyone speak of it and yet it's all over the BBC websites and was even on the national news.

Sure, and this isn't a bad change in policy. Although I think the buzz of the Olympics and some of the women's games in that were a bit of a catalyst a little further back in time.

 

[vorpal blade]

Thanks traveling blade for the response - it would seem that you are well connected within Women's football - what did you do when it was mooted that the Belles were to be relegated purely by dictat.

Money talks in the men's game of course but you have to buy success on the pitch - you must win matches. First you employ a manager and then buy a squad of players. For those who don't know, in the women's game Manchester City literally just bought a position in the top league for cash..... and Doncaster had to be thrown out.

There has been much conversation on this thread about the BBC's propagandising on behalf of women's football, when Doncaster were expelled before a ball had been kicked 2 seasons ago - there was a deafening silence from the BBC on the subject, the truth is the FAWSL bought that silence from BBC too, and that IS one of the big problems with the BBC, they want to be seen as the objective reporters of news but sometimes they have a financial interest in something that prevents them objectively reporting on a news story.

Traveling blade the forced relegation of Doncaster Belles had echoes of the salvation of West Ham in the days of Tevez - do you think its fair enough that a football club should buy its league position, is the FAWSL up for rent? and out of interest, what do the players get paid please....about?

 

[Bladesway]

Mmmm, to be fair, I did take on board what you said about me posting stuff on the wrong board. The rules are quite simple and I flouted them by being a little thoughtless//lazy.
As for posting shit, as I said earlier, it was a simple way to drum up a bit of lively debate. If the resulting 100 plus responses is what a shit thread on a discussion forum is, then yes, it is a shit thread.

Fair answer. If you took it on board then thank you.

 

[Bert]

Sure, and this isn't a bad change in policy. Although I think the buzz of the Olympics and some of the women's games in that were a bit of a catalyst a little further back in time.

It's becoming almost positive discrimination these days on the BBC the way they are suddenly featuring these sports.

They should bring back Sam Leitch's Football Preview and Scrambling with Jeff Smith on his BSA, otherwise the Bert's of this world are going to be feeling discriminated against.

 

[mosbolad]

It's becoming almost positive discrimination these days on the BBC the way they are suddenly featuring these sports.

They should bring back Sam Leitch's Football Preview and Scrambling with Jeff Smith on his BSA, otherwise the Bert's of this world are going to be feeling discriminated against.

Maybe they should bring back 'One Man and His Prejudices'?

Fifty percent of the world are women and a lot of them enjoy football. Maybe Bert should get Bert's head around this.

 

[Bert]

Maybe they should bring back 'One Man and His Prejudices'?

Fifty percent of the world are women and a lot of them enjoy football. Maybe Bert should get Bert's head around this.

Bert is commenting on the BBC's recent change of policy, he has not given his opinion on whether or not women should play and enjoy sport. So don't start mouthing off about prejudice.

PS 50 % of the world are not women

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

To somehow then conflate the BBC showing this with 'pushing issues such as homosexuality' frankly boggles my mind.

I do find it interesting that the one theme that people pickup on is the homosexuality thing. I mentioned underage sex, insurance fraud, violence amongst others and everyone seems to want to jump on the old 'why-are-you-having-a-go-at-homosexuals' bandwagon. I'm not on about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I'm merely asking what the agenda of the BBC (and others) is. Neighbours is now being touted as 'sexier than ever' Every programme now features 'good looking' actors and actresses with half their kit off in a move to attract viewers. Young, easily influenced tea-time viewers. TV has a huge influence on our society and so no, I don't agree with people burying their murdered victims under basements and getting away with it, or stealing super cars to raise some quick cash, or blowing up a hotel to get revenge or whatever the latest garbage storyline is. Neither do I think overt sexual behaviour is necessary to deliver a good tv programme. Like it or not, boundaries are being pushed more and more and we are poorer as a society because of it.

 

[vorpal blade]

PS 50 % of the world are not women

is correct too.

 

[PokerBlade]

It's becoming almost positive discrimination these days on the BBC the way they are suddenly featuring these sports.

They should bring back Sam Leitch's Football Preview and Scrambling with Jeff Smith on his BSA, otherwise the Bert's of this world are going to be feeling discriminated against.

How on Earth is showing the occasional women's game discriminating against anyone?

The Berts of this world seem strangely troubled given that the quantity of men's football on TV hasn't decreased even slightly.

 

[Barney]

I do find it interesting that the one theme that people pickup on is the homosexuality thing. I mentioned underage sex, insurance fraud, violence amongst others and everyone seems to want to jump on the old 'why-are-you-having-a-go-at-homosexuals' bandwagon. I'm not on about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I'm merely asking what the agenda of the BBC (and others) is. Neighbours is now being touted as 'sexier than ever' Every programme now features 'good looking' actors and actresses with half their kit off in a move to attract viewers. Young, easily influenced tea-time viewers. TV has a huge influence on our society and so no, I don't agree with people burying their murdered victims under basements and getting away with it, or stealing super cars to raise some quick cash, or blowing up a hotel to get revenge or whatever the latest garbage storyline is. Neither do I think overt sexual behaviour is necessary to deliver a good tv programme. Like it or not, boundaries are being pushed more and more and we are poorer as a society because of it.

What's this one then? Neighbours-ist? Society-ist? Homophobic?

I know, sexist!

 

[PokerBlade]

I do find it interesting that the one theme that people pickup on is the homosexuality thing. I mentioned underage sex, insurance fraud, violence amongst others and everyone seems to want to jump on the old 'why-are-you-having-a-go-at-homosexuals' bandwagon. I'm not on about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I'm merely asking what the agenda of the BBC (and others) is. Neighbours is now being touted as 'sexier than ever' Every programme now features 'good looking' actors and actresses with half their kit off in a move to attract viewers. Young, easily influenced tea-time viewers. TV has a huge influence on our society and so no, I don't agree with people burying their murdered victims under basements and getting away with it, or stealing super cars to raise some quick cash, or blowing up a hotel to get revenge or whatever the latest garbage storyline is. Neither do I think overt sexual behaviour is necessary to deliver a good tv programme. Like it or not, boundaries are being pushed more and more and we are poorer as a society because of it.

Media has become more graphic and yet crime rates continue to fall.

 

[mosbolad]

I do find it interesting that the one theme that people pickup on is the homosexuality thing. I mentioned underage sex, insurance fraud, violence amongst others and everyone seems to want to jump on the old 'why-are-you-having-a-go-at-homosexuals' bandwagon. I'm not on about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I'm merely asking what the agenda of the BBC (and others) is. Neighbours is now being touted as 'sexier than ever' Every programme now features 'good looking' actors and actresses with half their kit off in a move to attract viewers. Young, easily influenced tea-time viewers. TV has a huge influence on our society and so no, I don't agree with people burying their murdered victims under basements and getting away with it, or stealing super cars to raise some quick cash, or blowing up a hotel to get revenge or whatever the latest garbage storyline is. Neither do I think overt sexual behaviour is necessary to deliver a good tv programme. Like it or not, boundaries are being pushed more and more and we are poorer as a society because of it.

All very interesting Greasy, but what has this got to do with having a pop at women's football?

The BBC having an agenda by screening a women's England international euro qualifier?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Bert is commenting on the BBC's recent change of policy, he has not given his opinion on whether or not women should play and enjoy sport. So don't start mouthing off about prejudice.

PS 50 % of the world are not women

In anthropology and demography, the human sex ratio is the ratio of males to females in a population. Like most sexual species, the sex ratio in humans is approximately 1:1. The sex ratio at birth worldwide is commonly thought to be 107 boys to 100 girls,[2] although this value is subject to debate in the scientific community. The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females.[3] Depending upon which definition is used, between 0.1% and 1.7% of live births are intersex.

I think SciShow did a video on the 107:100 ratio. I might try and track it down.

 

[Bert]

How on Earth is showing the occasional women's game discriminating against anyone?

The Berts of this world seem strangely troubled given that the quantity of men's football on TV hasn't decreased even slightly.

Do you read the BBC's sports webpages? They are full of women's football and cricket these days, a clear unwarranted shift in policy. Women's cricket in particular is a completely minority sport but you wouldn't think so from reading the BBC sites recently.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

It was Minute Earth who give it as ~106:100 boys: girls

 

[JohnDenver]

I do find it interesting that the one theme that people pickup on is the homosexuality thing. I mentioned underage sex, insurance fraud, violence amongst others and everyone seems to want to jump on the old 'why-are-you-having-a-go-at-homosexuals' bandwagon.

They pick up on it because underage sex, insurance fraud and violence are all wrong. Being gay doesn't belong in such company.

 

[Bert]

In anthropology and demography, the human sex ratio is the ratio of males to females in a population. Like most sexual species, the sex ratio in humans is approximately 1:1. The sex ratio at birth worldwide is commonly thought to be 107 boys to 100 girls,[2] although this value is subject to debate in the scientific community. The sex ratio for the entire world population is 101 males to 100 females.[3] Depending upon which definition is used, between 0.1% and 1.7% of live births are intersex.

I think SciShow did a video on the 107:100 ratio. I might try and track it down.

He said WOMEN not females, a female child is not a woman.

 

[mosbolad]

Do you read the BBC's sports webpages? They are full of women's football and cricket these days, a clear unwarranted shift in policy. Women's cricket in particular is a completely minority sport but you wouldn't think so from reading the BBC sites recently.

I've not checked whether this is so but I do find it interesting that this somehow upsets Bert.

Did Bert complain about lack of coverage of women in sport when there was basically no coverage whatsoever?

 

[PokerBlade]

Do you read the BBC's sports webpages? They are full of women's football and cricket these days, a clear unwarranted shift in policy. Women's cricket in particular is a completely minority sport but you wouldn't think so from reading the BBC sites recently.

Um, there's still a shit ton more coverage of the men.

I'm still not sure what bothers you about trying to advance the women's game.

 

[Bert]

I've not checked whether this is so but I do find it interesting that this somehow upsets Bert.

Did Bert complain about lack of coverage of women in sport when there was basically no coverage whatsoever?

Bert never gets upset by trivialities, he's merely making observations.

 

[sportinguista]

I like women's football - but tbf the keepers do seem a bit dodgy.

Whilst working on Footballer's Wives series 3 some years ago it was suggested by the footballing extras that a lunchtime game be played against crew members on a day we filmed at Spurs training ground. The Footballer's were all signed to teams such as St Albans City and similar, so clearly has some talent. We were film crew who like to kick a ball about. As a lifelong keeper I volunteered to go in goal but was told a girl from the production office had asked to be involved and would play there so I was shoved out on the wing.
How they smirked as we lined up.
How we laughed as they couldn't score past the then England ladies goalkeeper, we found out they were all nesh and romped home 5-0.

She was fucking ace.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Maybe they should bring back 'One Man and His Prejudices'?

Fifty percent of the world are women and a lot of them enjoy football. Maybe Bert should get Bert's head around this.

It would be interesting to see if a company that actually had to make a profit from broadcasting from viewing figures as to whether they would then televise the sport in question - what ever it is.

When the different channels compete for the sport is the day it has "arrived"

 

[Bert]

Um, there's still a shit ton more coverage of the men.

I'm still not sure what bothers you about trying to advance the women's game.

Maybe there is more coverage of men's sports because they are more popular with both men and women?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Do you read the BBC's sports webpages? They are full of women's football and cricket these days, a clear unwarranted shift in policy. Women's cricket in particular is a completely minority sport but you wouldn't think so from reading the BBC sites recently.

I think an explicit part of the remit of the BBC is some form of non-commercial public service. They are actually meant to broadcast unpopular stuff. 6 Music and Radio 3 seem like obvious examples of this - among many others.

Here they could be seen to be trying to break a vicious circle of underexposure.

Women's football is not on the telly.

Therefore fewer girls play it.

Therefore the standard is low.

Therefore women's football is not on the telly.

I'm glad they are.

 

[JohnDenver]

Do you read the BBC's sports webpages? They are full of women's football and cricket these days, a clear unwarranted shift in policy. Women's cricket in particular is a completely minority sport but you wouldn't think so from reading the BBC sites recently.

The cricket authorities are cleverly arranging women's matches to mirror the men's schedule. It invites the media to increase the coverage.

It's interesting to me that no-one bats an eyelid when female olympians get big coverage, despite the fact they're no match for the men. We accept that, but grumble that other female sports fall short of male standards.

 

[PokerBlade]

Maybe there is more coverage of men's sports because they are more popular with both men and women?

Sure, that's what everyone's said and agreed with. So what's the problem for the Berts of the world, as you put it?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

He said WOMEN not females, a female child is not a woman.