Getting it into perspective for me.

[Keef Chedwyn]

I agree I'd like to see something more like his first season approach adopted now. It could be said that with that first season team we should have gone up and maybe even another man may have taken us there, but you'd gladly accept 90 points at the start of that season, given how the previous one ended.

With this set of players I'd swiftly detach your arm for 90 points. The difference is you can question the recruitment and suggest we could have built a better quality side between last summer and January. But probably not that good a side.

We don't need that good a side. Wolves were good last year but the other clubs that have beaten us to promotion since we've been in the third tier have not been better squads than ours right now, they've just been smarter. Hopefully Nigel will have learned enough from his time in this league to do it next year.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

We may have our own thoughts even more come 5pm saturday.

UTB

...and then 9.45 Tuesday, and then 5pm next Saturday, and then...

This is a nonsense way to run any enterprise.

 

[Dkc]

4 pts off 7, but with 2 games in hand.

Cheers Highbury

Wilson was sacked by Barnsley when they were 7 points off the Play Offs (Funnily enough following a 2-1 home defeat to Fleetwood).

I also seem to remember him being sacked by the pigs half way through the season after Sheffield's piggy MP's wrote an open letter calling for his dismissal.

Danny Wilson must love South Yorkshire

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Cheers Highbury

Wilson was sacked by Barnsley when they were 7 points off the Play Offs (Funnily enough following a 2-1 home defeat to Fleetwood).

I also seem to remember him being sacked by the pigs half way through the season after Sheffield's piggy MP's wrote an open letter calling for his dismissal.

Danny Wilson must love South Yorkshire

I remember the prevailing mood at he time being that with Wilson in charge, the chances of winning the play-offs were slim, given our scoring record.

It seemed a crazy throw of the dice, but I don't think the outcome would have been any different had Wilson stayed.

 

[grafikhaus]

I agree I'd like to see something more like his first season approach adopted now. It could be said that with that first season team we should have gone up and maybe even another man may have taken us there, but you'd gladly accept 90 points at the start of that season, given how the previous one ended.

Again, the similarity between managers and politicians (apart from them all being crap). Could it be that, in their early months as manager they are more carefree, possibly a bit giddy at being at the biggest club in their managerial career?

Then reality kicks in, they decide that clinging on to their position is more important than pursuing adventurous tactics and they 'resort to type.'

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

...and then 9.45 Tuesday, and then 5pm next Saturday, and then...

This is a nonsense way to run any enterprise.

Bill , agree with you , but it is the way of the game from the premiership to the conference . It not the McCabe family , i am worried about its Mr Prince and his lot , who ultimately may have the casting vote on Clough . Funny though it weren't that long ago at the blades dinner , they said he should have a 20 year contract . Maybe we are discussing a none entity and Clough is here to stay .

What will not help is the crowds reaction , if the results do not go our way , and certain fans act like romans in the ampi theatre baying for blood and the head of Clough.

UTB

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Bill , agree with you , but it is the way of the game from the premiership to the conference . It not the McCabe family , i am worried about its Mr Prince and his lot , who ultimately may have the casting vote on Clough . Funny though it weren't that long ago at the blades dinner , they said he should have a 20 year contract . Maybe we are discussing a none entity and Clough is here to stay .

What will not help is the crowds reaction , if the results do not go our way , and certain fans act like romans in the ampi theatre baying for blood and the head of Clough.

UTB

And that's one of the area's we fall short as a club...the fans baying for blood, they seem to revel in it.

The atmosphere on Saturday will be horrible....fans just sat in silence waiting for the first mistake to pounce and start hurling abuse, and if Port Vale score first that will be it.

Clough hasn't got a chance. Fans have turned now and there's no going back for them. There is no way a team will perform positively in that type of atmosphere.

We'll draw or lose on Saturday, followed by dogs abuse from the "fans", stupid radio phone in's and twitter messages to Phipps and Baki.

We'll them draw on Tuesday and Clough will be sacked on Wednesday....season will then peter out.

We'll get a new manager in and within 9 months he'll be branded clueless - if he opts for a possession based style of football fans will moan about sideways and backwards passing "get it forward" they'll shout. If he opts for a direct style fans will moan about "hoof ball".

The scene from the Warnock documentary away at Leeds sums up our fans, winning 4-0 it was "Warnock give us a wave"....the following week we lose and it was Warnock out.

Good luck this week Cloughy - I really hope you can get back to back wins and shut the morons up.

 

[TheBeard]

Again, the similarity between managers and politicians (apart from them all being crap). Could it be that, in their early months as manager they are more carefree, possibly a bit giddy at being at the biggest club in their managerial career?

Then reality kicks in, they decide that clinging on to their position is more important than pursuing adventurous tactics and they 'resort to type.'

The difference with Wilson and Blackwell was they both did well in their first season and the board then sold the better players in the close season and not given any funds to buy new players. When they both took over they both played decent football and as the players were sold and replaced with poorer players they both had to resort to a more direct approach to bypass the midfield to try and get results, IMO if the board had backed both of these managers and kept our better players and given funds to replace our poorer players we would now be playing in a higher league. The problem with Clough is that the board has backed him, ok they sold Maguire and I really think that was because the player wanted to leave not because the board wanted to sell him and he has been given substantial funds to build on the previous season. I don't believe sacking Clough at this time will achieve anything but I do believe with the opportunity he has been given if we don't make the playoffs something has to be done.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

The difference with Wilson and Blackwell was they both did well in their first season and the board then sold the better players in the close season and not given any funds to buy new players. When they both took over they both played decent football and as the players were sold and replaced with poorer players they both had to resort to a more direct approach to bypass the midfield to try and get results, IMO if the board had backed both of these managers and kept our better players and given funds to replace our poorer players we would now be playing in a higher league. The problem with Clough is that the board has backed him, ok they sold Maguire and I really think that was because the player wanted to leave not because the board wanted to sell him and he has been given substantial funds to build on the previous season. I don't believe sacking Clough at this time will achieve anything but I do believe with the opportunity he has been given if we don't make the playoffs something has to be done.

The thing what makes football is not what happens only on the pitch , but what happens off it , with all the side show circus of speculation , opinions and rumours. The Clough debate will be settled sooner rather than later as we get to the end of the season.

Not only does it seem us fans are split on all things Clough , the same could be happening in the board room. What we don't want is another Wilson saga , as this club more than any , needs some stability , albeit , that is talked about when all is hunky dory.

We have to stick with Clough , we have invested time and money on this one. Lets just remember we are in league 1 for a reason , which is down to the board and ultimate choice of managers , or booting them out , as the fall guy.

UTB

 

[blade too long]

If managers live or die on results .surely going from bittom and looking certs for relegation .to being 5th with 10 games to go is a very poor argument to say theres been no improvement .yes some say as the main thrust of their argument its only league one .. they offered Clough the job of improving what was an utterly shit league one team. He was not given jags walker beattie etc . I sometimes worry how peoples perceptions cloud their judgement. He took over a side that was leaving this division .but not in the way we would have liked. He has had to turn around the good ship United that was holed below the waterline and was sinking fast .hes plugged the holes.We are not the latest in luxury liners but a old ferry .getting refurbished as we go.once fully re fitted we can sail out of this league but we still have work to do .

 

[Cyprus Blade]

From reading an interview with JP just after he came it would seem that the prince is a bad loser and short on patience. If the target was automatic promotion and we don't make the play-offs I think NC is gone.

 

[grafikhaus]

The difference with Wilson and Blackwell was they both did well in their first season and the board then sold the better players in the close season and not given any funds to buy new players. When they both took over they both played decent football and as the players were sold and replaced with poorer players they both had to resort to a more direct approach to bypass the midfield to try and get results, IMO if the board had backed both of these managers and kept our better players and given funds to replace our poorer players we would now be playing in a higher league. The problem with Clough is that the board has backed him, ok they sold Maguire and I really think that was because the player wanted to leave not because the board wanted to sell him and he has been given substantial funds to build on the previous season. I don't believe sacking Clough at this time will achieve anything but I do believe with the opportunity he has been given if we don't make the playoffs something has to be done.

Can't disagree with any of that, TheBeard. (BTW, why are you playing so crap since you came back? )

I think the root of our current demise can be traced back directly to losing the Play-off final to Burnley in 2009. Now that was a team (and no excuse for Blackwell's no-show on the day, we hadn't demolished the team yet). The two Kyles, Kilgallon, Paddy, Monty (yes, Monty. Better than owt we've got now) etc.

If McCabe had held his nerve then, we would probably have spent the last few years between the PL and the Championship.

The difference was, Blackwell still had that team in place and should have been sacked immediately after that debacle, not 2 games into the following season.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

[/QUOTE] I think the root of our current demise can be traced back directly to losing the Play-off final to Burnley in 2009. Now that was a team (and no excuse for Blackwell's no-show on the day, we hadn't demolished the team yet). The two Kyles, Kilgallon, Paddy, Monty (yes, Monty. Better than owt we've got now) etc.

If McCabe had held his nerve then, we would probably have spent the last few years between the PL and the Championship.

The difference was, Blackwell still had that team in place and should have been sacked immediately after that debacle, not 2 games into the following season.[/QUOTE]

He wasn't sacked the following season, he had a whole other season when he had players sold and the squad was ravaged by injury. We finished 8th, which to be fair, was pretty good given all the injuries and sales.

He was sacked the next season. Had he not been, we would never have gone down.

Blackwell wasn't a pretty manager, but like Warnock, he knew how to get results, loved the club and worked his socks off. Yet again, fans abused him. He's actually a really decent guy.

 

[grafikhaus]

If managers live or die on results .surely going from bottom and looking certs for relegation .to being 5th with 10 games to go is a very poor argument to say theres been no improvement .

As I've said before, Clough's first 14 games in charge yielded 14 points. The fact that Weir oversaw possibly the worst start to a season in memory makes any improvement on his record impossible to countenance.

At Game 36 last season (Clough's 23rd League game in charge, half a season) we had seven points less than now. Lose tomorrow and it's four points. Improvement?

Last season, we finished on 66 points. This season we're on course to get 70 points. Improvement?

 

[Blade56]

Clough a better manager than Warnock.....are you clinically insane?

As things stand I would drive down to,Cornwall and bring Warnock back here to do,a job ie get us out of this piss poor league then give him a director of football position if he wanted it.

 

[Blade56]

As I've said before, Clough's first 14 games in charge yielded 14 points. The fact that Weir oversaw possibly the worst start to a season in memory makes any improvement on his record impossible to countenance.

At Game 36 last season (Clough's 23rd League game in charge, half a season) we had seven points less than now. Lose tomorrow and it's four points. Improvement?

Last season, we finished on 66 points. This season we're on course to get 70 points. Improvement?

View attachment 11027

NN has yielded 7 points more than same time last season

20+ new players, cup money, his squad, his tactics

7 extra points is a poor return in a much weaker league IMO

 

[Torrix1889]

As things stand I would drive down to,Cornwall and bring Warnock back here to do,a job ie get us out of this piss poor league then give him a director of football position if he wanted it.

I was never a massive Warnock fan but in the position we find ourselves I agree. I would put a tasty bet on with the local Bookie that he would get us up in the remainder of the season.

 

[blade too long]

Last season, we finished on 66 points. This season we're on course to get 70 points. Improvement?
last season the top 6 all got more points , this season the point spreads are all mid table , a lot less points will get 6th

View attachment 11027

again weve 10 to go 6 at home I expect more points from these than the previous 10 and finish around 75/6


a few more points will be enough to secure a play off spot so yes an improvement , getting 1 place higher than last season gives us a shot .
We never got the players we were after till mid jan so its not been the team Clough planned , but SO LONG AS WE FINISH WELL IT WILL BE JOB DONE

finishing 3rd with 86 points say becomes no better than 6th with 74 , as we have found in the past , lets do it the sneaky way the ugly way ,
but lets do it

point spread is totally different this season 8 clubs from 5th to 12th have collected a lot more points and so the 5th and 6th spot finasl total wont be too high

 

[Revolution]

finishing 3rd with 86 points say becomes no better than 6th with 74 , as we have found in the past , lets do it the sneaky way the ugly way ,
but lets do it

It is better to be 3rd or 4th. You are at home in the second leg.

We have only won playoff games at the Lane. Never won an away game.

We do not want to be going into an away second leg having to win.

This was one problem I had with things 2 years ago - we pissed 4th place away in the last couple of weeks. That cost us dearly.

 

[Kenilworth]

finishing 3rd with 86 points say becomes no better than 6th with 74, as we have found in the past , lets do it the sneaky way the ugly way but lets do it

I think you are forgetting ''k' - the constant that affects the outcome of such occurrings.

In such circumstances 'k' ensures that in general terms (i.e. not just this season - although some scenarios will fit) we:

1. finish 3rd - are disappointed not to go up automatically and get beaten by a team on the rise and full of confidence as they burst into the play-offs at the last moment

2. cling on to a play off place in 6th position, sickly and devoid of any forward momentum and go our with a whimper in the semi stage

3. robustly defend our 5th position in the play off group and then meekly succumb to our fourth place rival over two legs

4. show very strongly in the last 10 games and get into the play off semis with a much needed boost of confidence only to lose our most potent attacking players through injury or suspension and fail to trouble to scoreboard in the final

It's how the footballing gods have determined the cosmic cycle of all things Blades related - it's a given, a constant an irrevocably immovable force.

 

[blade too long]

the long and short of it is , 3rd 4th 5th 6th , you get a 1 in 4 chance of going up
we played ipswich at home first beat them after theyd finished miles clear in 3rd
theres no set formula
we finish after 46 games hopefully in some kind of form and then win and draw a semi and win one more

footballs simple , look at QPR , totally over run for 86 minutes , clung on with 10 men and won it with their first shot at goal
win ,ugly , win lucky , just win ,

The only certain thing in football is the uncertainty , the football gods wont notice us sneak up this season

 

[Grappler]

Can't disagree with any of that, TheBeard. (BTW, why are you playing so crap since you came back? )

I think the root of our current demise can be traced back directly to losing the Play-off final to Burnley in 2009. Now that was a team (and no excuse for Blackwell's no-show on the day, we hadn't demolished the team yet). The two Kyles, Kilgallon, Paddy, Monty (yes, Monty. Better than owt we've got now) etc.

If McCabe had held his nerve then, we would probably have spent the last few years between the PL and the Championship.

The difference was, Blackwell still had that team in place and should have been sacked immediately after that debacle, not 2 games into the following season.

I just said on another thread, how much I would give for a tackler like Monty in the middle of the park

 

[Kenilworth]

the long and short of it is , 3rd 4th 5th 6th , you get a 1 in 4 chance of going up

No you don't
You get nothing like a 1 in 4 chance

More like "In The Sun Too Long"


...........pass me another San Miguel please

 

[blade too long]

its 1 in 4 , all previous results mean diddly 22 play offs and 5th placed has won most 8

brentford by the way reached 7 play offs in league one , never won one
so we arent so bad

 

[SandyMcBlade]

I think a lot of people have selective memory's when it come to managers. The football under Blackwell was poor in fact it was so poor it started the cry for the kind of tippy tappy football fans are up in arms against now,
But purely on the results side Blackwells record was pretty good, and people tend to forget that in that "poor" season we had before he was sacked we went through a time of horrendous change and injury problems and played 11 loan players, plus Paddy Kenny was out on suspension until the last two games and we used five goal keepers.
In that season the club sold Naughton ,Walker, Kilgalllon and Cotterill among others and loaned Sharp to Donny., Blackwell halved Robson's wage bill but spent £3,000,000 on a loser called Ched Evens ....

PS we finished 8th

 

[Cyprus Blade]

I think you are forgetting ''k' - the constant that affects the outcome of such occurrings.

In such circumstances 'k' ensures that in general terms (i.e. not just this season - although some scenarios will fit) we:

is this where k = Kenilworth Only joking, couldn't resist

 

[Kenilworth]

is this where k = Kenilworth Only joking, couldn't resist

Ha!
Well spotted but it would be a large kicking K for Kenilworth, wouldn't it?

But to be fair to me, I'm only extrapolating from past experience as the play offs fill me with dread and nothing like excitement. If we get there it's going to be another one of those decisions, whether to go this time or not. Of course I always threaten myself not to go then Ken Jnr gets on the case and we're off again. Mind you we have found a superb veggy curry house in Wembley (we're not veggy but the food is great) so that's always a factor.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

It's not cause and effect. We don't improve because we employ rubbish managers. You can take the example of Real Madrid to see that, taken in isolation, sacking managers cannot be seen as s bad thing.

UTB

Sacking manager after manager finds you in the 3rd division.

Appointing shite in the first place doesn't help I agree but this time we have a manager who could turn out to be our best asset.

Like SUFC he doesn't belong in the third tier but whilst we are here we need to put up with the wrong team and wrong manager in the wrong place.
If we can get back in the 2nd division for some reason I believe things will be much better.

Can't say why specifically it's just a feeling similar to one that knew Robson would fail.

 

[alcoblade]

Sacking manager after manager finds you in the 3rd division.

Appointing shite in the first place doesn't help I agree but this time we have a manager who could turn out to be our best asset.

Like SUFC he doesn't belong in the third tier but whilst we are here we need to put up with the wrong team and wrong manager in the wrong place.
If we can get back in the 2nd division for some reason I believe things will be much better.

Can't say why specifically it's just a feeling similar to one that knew Robson would fail.

I'd agree that in itself it's not a good thing. But there's plenty of evidence that teams have been very successful firing managers very quickly. So it's can't be argued that, taken in isolation, it is bad. It''s clearly a sign that all's not right though.

Either way, what is beyond a doubt, is that sticking with shit managers isn't a good idea.

UTB

 

[YES Blade]

I'd agree that in itself it's not a good thing. But there's plenty of evidence that teams have been very successful firing managers very quickly. So it's can't be argued that, taken in isolation, it is bad. It''s clearly a sign that all's not right though.

Either way, what is beyond a doubt, is that sticking with shit managers isn't a good idea.

UTB

It's just how modern football is, the majority of clubs don't give managers time anymore. Clough is currently the 11th longest serving manager in League One.