george long

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Nothing against George personally and I'm pleased he seems to be doing quite well out on loan, but I'm more optimistic about Eastwood.
 



With Marcus Dewhurst being called up for England U-17s and Eastwood looking good, we seem to have a production line for keepers.

Having not seen Long play for Wimbledon I've no idea where his future lies. He seems to now be at least good enough for L1. If we signed a 23 year old keeper from L1 who'd had a bit of experience with England youth teams, as back up for Moore, then there probably wouldn't be too many complaints. However, CW etc may decide that Eastwood is good enough to be cover next year so Long won't get opportunities and is allowed to leave. Lot of water under to flow under the bridge before the club has to make a decision.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
We seem to have a good number of ex-goalies on here, and we are all generally supportive of the United keepers (except for the indefensible minority). Is it the solidarity of the goalkeepers' Union, or because we all know that you only play in goal when you're not good enough to play anywhere else?:(
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Speaking for myself I suppose it's a bit of the Goalies Union thing. I might be wrong (I usually am) but my gut feeling is that George is probably at his level now. Nothing wrong with that and he should make a decent living.
 
I'll always have time for and wish well to any boyhood Blades fan who works his way up through the ranks and makes the first team.

I've been as guilty as most for piss taking but I've not stopped, nor never will, want him to do his Bladey Best. Whether that he for us, or should he move on.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
And I'm sure things have changed since 'my day'. Once goalies couldn't pick up a back-pass, they have had to be able to play the ball well with their feet. Nightmare!
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I played in goal up at the Blades Academy (not for the Blades obviously) for a few years in a Futsal league (basically similar rule to 5 a side but a smaller heavier ball.) Ideally the keeper would basically play like a sweeper, so would have to be good in the net but also confident with the ball at their feet as well.

As you say since the pass back rules was introduced keepers had to rely on their footwork much more. The Reading keeper the other week certainly used his feet.
 
Rusty view said:
I played in goal up at the Blades Academy (not for the Blades obviously) for a few years in a Futsal league (basically similar rule to 5 a side but a smaller heavier ball.) Ideally the keeper would basically play like a sweeper, so would have to be good in the net but also confident with the ball at their feet as well.

As you say since the pass back rules was introduced keepers had to rely on their footwork much more. The Reading keeper the other week certainly used his feet.
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This has set me thinking about how much goalkeeping has changed over 60 years. At the current rate of change people will be looking back in 30 years and remembering that small goalkeeper Blackman we had on loan - the size of goalkeepers has increased enormously.
For me, goalkeepers in the 50s and 60s had it worse in 2 ways. First, they were given a physical battering - look at the run of Cup Finals in the 50s when Trautmann broke his neck (accidental collision), Woods (1957) had his cheekbone fractured by a player running 10 yards and charging into him while he was standing with the ball in his hands, and then Gregg (1958) was charged into the net by Lofthouse for a goal which would now be a yellow card at least. And second, the leather ball, particularly when muddy, weighed a ton, and punching it became real hard work.
On the other hand, current goalkeepers have to play as sweeper, be able to kick long and pass short, and risk the consequences of a bad pass. And most difficult of all, they have to deal with a ball which swerves and dips with unnerving unpredictability. Sitting behind the goal on the Kop, I am amazed by how much the ball moves in flight, and the speed with which the keepers have to adjust their position. With the old leather balls, at least you knew from the moment a forward shot exactly where the ball would be when it reached you.
These challenges for the modern keeper explain why crowds have less confidence in the keeper than used to be the case. Whether it is the rush out of the area, the risky pass to a defender, or dealing with a late-swerving shot, the room for error is much greater today. Pity the poor goalie.
 
I blame Wilson for a lot of this instead of going out there and getting us a half decent experienced keeper he persevered with Simonson & then put the lad in the first team way to young and the Exeter 4-4 on his debut I think gave his confidence a right kicking .
I’ve always thought he’s carried that monkey on his back & a keeper without any confidence at all in front of his own fans is gonna breed mistakes .
I wish him well , but his future lays away from us , he’ll earn a career at the level he’s at the level he’s at now but I don’t think much higher.. but GLTTL
 
John Street West Terrace said:
I blame Wilson for a lot of this instead of going out there and getting us a half decent experienced keeper he persevered with Simonson & then put the lad in the first team way to young and the Exeter 4-4 on his debut I think gave his confidence a right kicking .
I’ve always thought he’s carried that monkey on his back & a keeper without any confidence at all in front of his own fans is gonna breed mistakes .
I wish him well , but his future lays away from us , he’ll earn a career at the level he’s at the level he’s at now but I don’t think much higher.. but GLTTL
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George wasn’t a young lad when he represented us under Adkins. Some had been saying “he’s a kid” for years. Tom McAllister and Ian Tomlinson were kids - 17 when they played in our first team - and they were excellent.

I’m glad George is doing well. He wasn’t good for us and his age had nothing to do with it. He may well be one of those players that come good later in life. If so, GLTTL, but he had his chance here and failed. Let the lad move on.
 
John Street West Terrace said:
I blame Wilson for a lot of this instead of going out there and getting us a half decent experienced keeper he persevered with Simonson & then put the lad in the first team way to young and the Exeter 4-4 on his debut I think gave his confidence a right kicking .
I’ve always thought he’s carried that monkey on his back & a keeper without any confidence at all in front of his own fans is gonna breed mistakes .
I wish him well , but his future lays away from us , he’ll earn a career at the level he’s at the level he’s at now but I don’t think much higher.. but GLTTL
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I seem to remember George kept a clean sheet on his home debut JSWT didn't he?
 
Another one that was part of the failure culture that we’ve got shut off alongside other such wastes of space like Collins, Mceverley, Hammond, Flynn etc ....

I never want to see him start in goal for us again.
 



John Street West Terrace said:
I blame Wilson for a lot of this instead of going out there and getting us a half decent experienced keeper he persevered with Simonson & then put the lad in the first team way to young and the Exeter 4-4 on his debut I think gave his confidence a right kicking .
I’ve always thought he’s carried that monkey on his back & a keeper without any confidence at all in front of his own fans is gonna breed mistakes .
I wish him well , but his future lays away from us , he’ll earn a career at the level he’s at the level he’s at now but I don’t think much higher.. but GLTTL
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Is this the same Danny Wilson whose side set a club record of clean sheets in a season in 2012/13? And George was in goal for 18 of those. Long looked very promising that season but for some reason after Wilson left he lost his confidence and wasn’t assertive enough Nothing to do with Wilson though.
 
OK this is the last time I'm going to say this and it's the reason I have given up rating players on the forum. I recall that George Long was given a better average match performance rating than pretty much any other player in his last stint for us. By members of this forum. Yes you and you and you - maybe not you.
 
Dellas Cowboys said:
OK this is the last time I'm going to say this and it's the reason I have given up rating players on the forum. I recall that George Long was given a better average match performance rating than pretty much any other player in his last stint for us. By members of this forum. Yes you and you and you - maybe not you.
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Adkins' season? George was adequate that season amidst a whole ocean of garbage. Guess that was reflected in the numbers.
 
BushBlade said:
With Marcus Dewhurst being called up for England U-17s and Eastwood looking good, we seem to have a production line for keepers.

Having not seen Long play for Wimbledon I've no idea where his future lies. He seems to now be at least good enough for L1. If we signed a 23 year old keeper from L1 who'd had a bit of experience with England youth teams, as back up for Moore, then there probably wouldn't be too many complaints. However, CW etc may decide that Eastwood is good enough to be cover next year so Long won't get opportunities and is allowed to leave. Lot of water under to flow under the bridge before the club has to make a decision.
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Good point with the "if we signed a 23 year old from league 1" bit. I wasn't too unhappy with Blackman coming in on loan and he came here as a 23 year old who had only performed at league 2 level and not as much experience at international youth level.

For me I'd take him or leave him. He's still young and if he came back and got in the team I wouldn't complain at all. Wilder has brought players back who I've otherwise written off before and they have become vital to the team so who's to say that he can't do the same with Long. That said if Wilder feels he needs to move on then so be it.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
George wasn’t a young lad when he represented us under Adkins. Some had been saying “he’s a kid” for years. Tom McAllister and Ian Tomlinson were kids - 17 when they played in our first team - and they were excellent.

I’m glad George is doing well. He wasn’t good for us and his age had nothing to do with it. He may well be one of those players that come good later in life. If so, GLTTL, but he had his chance here and failed. Let the lad move on.
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K

Players develop at different ages CB , I agree Tomlinson was a good keeper at his age but it doesn’t mean that if they are at 17 / 18 ;they will go onto be world beaters . I’ve seen a lot of players especially keepers not flourish to later in there careers so you can;t apply the same template to all , If so would you have wrote the likes of Ian Wright , Vardy or if you want a keeper Neville Southall who didn’t come into the professional game until he was 22 all 3 going on to play top level & internationals to if you were applying that rule you would have wrote all 3 off at 17 ?
As I’ve said above I didn’t really rate Long so I’m not advocating he’d be one of the above I’m just saying IMO he was one that got put in a little early , but he could have still come out the same ?
 
GreasyChipBeattie said:
I seem to remember George kept a clean sheet on his home debut JSWT didn't he?
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Maybe I did get his debut incorrect GCB but do you remember the Exeter 4-4 at the lane . They just started tossing balls in the box and Long was very indecisive. The 2 centre halves were playing on the penalty spot to try and protect him,
I think his confidence after that took a.knock
 
John Street West Terrace said:
K

Players develop at different ages CB , I agree Tomlinson was a good keeper at his age but it doesn’t mean that if they are at 17 / 18 ;they will go onto be world beaters . I’ve seen a lot of players especially keepers not flourish to later in there careers so you can;t apply the same template to all , If so would you have wrote the likes of Ian Wright , Vardy or if you want a keeper Neville Southall who didn’t come into the professional game until he was 22 all 3 going on to play top level & internationals to if you were applying that rule you would have wrote all 3 off at 17 ?
As I’ve said above I didn’t really rate Long so I’m not advocating he’d be one of the above I’m just saying IMO he was one that got put in a little early , but he could have still come out the same ?
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I'm not disagreeing with any of what you've said there JSWT. And I'm certainly not suggesting for one minute that you can apply one template to all. What I'm referring to here is that some folks on here kept bringing up this..."he's only a kid" excuse to try and justify his poor performances in some games. I said very early on that I had concerns about Long and got lambasted on here for it - a bit like I do for daring to suggest that Blackman is hesitant with poor distribution. (Even if I praise the things that Blackman does well - and I have done that - it makes no difference because to say anything wrong, especially about a "young" keeper, is the same as drawing cartoons of the prophet Mohammed to a Muslim, to some. So be it).

I think you have to take age out of it and just look at the performance of the player - whether it's Long, or Blackman, or Sharp, or Clarke, or Duffy, or whoever. If they are playing well the age doesn't come into it. And likewise, if they are playing bad, the age doesn't come into it. It's not a reason to justify or excuse anything. The only relevance of age is as an indicator of how long someone may continue to be useful to the team.
 
UnitedBlade said:
Is this the same Danny Wilson whose side set a club record of clean sheets in a season in 2012/13? And George was in goal for 18 of those. Long looked very promising that season but for some reason after Wilson left he lost his confidence and wasn’t assertive enough Nothing to do with Wilson though.
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I think the clean sheet record was more a result of the ppl in front of him but I will give hi. Some credit there ; but see above reply re-Exeter game UB , for the majority of the that season both keepers had Collins & Maguire in front of them which helped a lot , Longs deficiencies & confidence were exposed after that partnership ended and his reluctance to leave the 6 yard box has cost us a lot of games ,
Every time we played a side with a big physical presence like a Gilligham , Southend or alike I think both me and him were reaching for the Imodium Extra !!
If you look at Moore and Long both have the same physical stature but after that the comparisons end , I wish the lad well but as I said I thought he came into the first team too soon , but who knows could have still turned out the same ?
 
Cerberus Blade said:
I'm not disagreeing with any of what you've said there JSWT. And I'm certainly not suggesting for one minute that you can apply one template to all. What I'm referring to here is that some folks on here kept bringing up this..."he's only a kid" excuse to try and justify his poor performances in some games. I said very early on that I had concerns about Long and got lambasted on here for it - a bit like I do for daring to suggest that Blackman is hesitant with poor distribution. (Even if I praise the things that Blackman does well - and I have done that - it makes no difference because to say anything wrong, especially about a "young" keeper, is the same as drawing cartoons of the prophet Mohammed to a Muslim, to some. So be it).

I think you have to take age out of it and just look at the performance of the player - whether it's Long, or Blackman, or Sharp, or Clarke, or Duffy, or whoever. If they are playing well the age doesn't come into it. And likewise, if they are playing bad, the age doesn't come into it. It's not a reason to justify or excuse anything. The only relevance of age is as an indicator of how long someone may continue to be useful to the team.
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I’d like to think CB I don’t fall into the category above and if I do I certainly don’t intend that ? All was trying to do was offer some possible mitigating circumstances as to why it didn’t work out for Long I’m not saying there right just offering a viewpoint on it as we all do
.
I agree from in the cold light of day that ultimately it’s about their contribution to the team & the result it achieves and that is the art of good management knowing when to introduce in young players into a side , it’s true no one is above critism or scrutiny , though I do think you have to allow some measure of tolerance with a young player coming into a team , but not allow it as a continuing excuse,

Just using my own experience and I didn’t make it to the professional level but played at a decent level , I came into a very good side at the age of 19 with some very good experienced players , some were great lads always encouraging me and others were good players with FA tolerance with egos & attitude the size of the Eiffel Tower ;it takes a bit of time to prove yourself & establish yourself in the team and learn about the lads around you .after this you then you get to see the real player , with a keeper this is more heightened as every mistake generally is punished
That was only at semi pro level I would imagine at professional level and in front of 25000 more judges you times my experiences by a thousand .
 
John Street West Terrace said:
Maybe I did get his debut incorrect GCB but do you remember the Exeter 4-4 at the lane . They just started tossing balls in the box and Long was very indecisive. The 2 centre halves were playing on the penalty spot to try and protect him,
I think his confidence after that took a.knock
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I wasn't there for the Exeter game mate, but didn't/don't doubt your point about the effect on confidence a game like that could have on a young keeper.
I was just asking the question about his debut for my own benefit, to check I wasn't losing it!
You on the other hand........;)
 
GreasyChipBeattie said:
I wasn't there for the Exeter game mate, but didn't/don't doubt your point about the effect on confidence a game like that could have on a young keeper.
I was just asking the question about his debut for my own benefit, to check I wasn't losing it!
You on the other hand........;)
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I lost it years ago mate o_O ... I’m beyond help !
 
John Street West Terrace said:
I think the clean sheet record was more a result of the ppl in front of him but I will give hi. Some credit there ; but see above reply re-Exeter game UB , for the majority of the that season both keepers had Collins & Maguire in front of them which helped a lot , Longs deficiencies & confidence were exposed after that partnership ended and his reluctance to leave the 6 yard box has cost us a lot of games ,
Every time we played a side with a big physical presence like a Gilligham , Southend or alike I think both me and him were reaching for the Imodium Extra !!
If you look at Moore and Long both have the same physical stature but after that the comparisons end , I wish the lad well but as I said I thought he came into the first team too soon , but who knows could have still turned out the same ?
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of that. You are brave to praise Collins on here, but I too think Collins and Maguire were a good combination at L1 level, and Collins helped Maguire progress. This also brings me back to the goalkeepers' union - outfield players have support around them, and little time to dwell on mistakes. The goalkeeper is on his own when he makes a mistake, and that must be especially hard when you are starting out. Lower league experience must be invaluable - you can hear every comment from the crowd, and if you can survive that...
 



John Street West Terrace said:
I think the clean sheet record was more a result of the ppl in front of him but I will give hi. Some credit there ; but see above reply re-Exeter game UB , for the majority of the that season both keepers had Collins & Maguire in front of them which helped a lot , Longs deficiencies & confidence were exposed after that partnership ended and his reluctance to leave the 6 yard box has cost us a lot of games ,
Every time we played a side with a big physical presence like a Gilligham , Southend or alike I think both me and him were reaching for the Imodium Extra !!
If you look at Moore and Long both have the same physical stature but after that the comparisons end , I wish the lad well but as I said I thought he came into the first team too soon , but who knows could have still turned out the same ?
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree about Moore v Long, my point was about Wilson. Long only played 2 league games as an 18 year old in 2011/12 and didn’t play at all after the Exeter game. Maguire and Collins played in that game by the way.

Long was very good in 12/13, defensively we were solid but we just couldn’t score goals and that was Wilson’s downfall not defence or goalkeeping.
 
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