Game Changing Investment

[Revolution]

Kevin McCabe never used the phrase " game changing investment" no matter how many times its stated he did. he said the Princes investment was "game changing". Of course it was. Weir was appointed as a cheap option and KMc had said he wasn't carrying on funding losses and the club had to stand on its own two feet. HRH has pumped in millions - KMc has put at least £4m extra in as well - just to cover losses as the club smashed out , unsuccessfully again. It's taken too long but we've got promotion.

Did he say "Think Liverpool" Sean?

 

[Revolution]

Can we kill once and for all this "admin" shit. He is the only major creditor. Admin was never an option. If he kept us out of admin, it's because he hasn't sokd us to some shyster to cut his losses, £4m being his share of that in the last accounts.
We should be grateful for that.

Administration was indeed never on the cards as that would have been a terrible thing for McCabe financially.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Did he say "Think Liverpool" Sean?

No. Jim Phipps did.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

In season 04/05 when the last home game against Millwall resulted in a chorus of boos and Morgan up front Warnock told Mcabe in order to get promotion he required a bigger budget, mcabe gave it him and we were promoted.

I have no problem with us working to a budget - but if we have aspirations of Premier League football the above scenario may need to happen again. Mcabe in a sense has already acknowledged this by suggesting further investment is being sought.

 

[Liverpool blade]

Just because we haven't spent loads doesn't mean the money isn't available if it needs to be i.e. Wilder is absolutely desperate for a player and no alternative will suffice

Just because you've got it doesn't mean you've got to use it, and if we bring in Holmes and Leonard this week I'll be looking at our transfer business so far thinking we've brought in some class and, compared to others, barely spent a penny

Too many people getting stressed because we're not paying millions for Championship has beens

I trust Wilder and his staff to make the right decisions whether the player costs 500k or 5mil

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't have put it any better myself!!. Wilder is a top manager and is a blade!!. Nothing else needs to be said!!.

 

[Blade56]

Smoke and mirrors in 2013.

McCabes famous line lead me to believe once we were int championship the money would be there to compete.

Reality is we've made it to the championship and BRP/KMc are going cap in hand for investment that they weren't prepared to beg for whilst int L1. That's his interpretation of the investment will be avaiable.

Truth is KM ain't got the sort of funds you need to compete and I feel sorry for him. He's full of good intention and he's a reight blade but the filthy game (once the beautiful game) has become corrupt and disgustingly greedy with transfers and salaries equal to some countries GDP.

Our problem is KM won't let go cause he's a blade but he ain't got the brass to play with the big boys.

As usual if I'm wrong it's because my account has been hacked.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

The money helps no doubt .. game changer ... no not necessarily... Huddersfield budget vs oinks budget and final result ? ...The question you want to ask is do we we want to go for broke ala McDonald 1998 & McCabe 2008 and when it doesn't go right have a fire sale and ultimately took us down or build a club on firmer footings ...I agree with a comment Ian Holloway sad last season .. the problem is now everyone wants an instant coffee success plan , buy x and y add water = promotion ... A club is developed over years ..A clear & realistic vision of where they should be , a realistic wage structure not boom or bust , a good recruitment strategy & development of players . All pulled together by a good management team ... I think we have boxes ticked .. so let's get behind them and not go chasing the mega bucks investors who will want their investments back out instantly because we didn't achieve a one season promotion

 

[Harrisblade]

Did he say "Think Liverpool" Sean?

No. Jim Phipps did

Even then, I don't think even Jim meant that we were going to spend the same amount of money as Liverpool do.
If I remember the context correctly (and I might well be wrong ) it was meant to be a statement that we weren't going to splash the cash in the way Man City were doing back then, but more a steady build up of the squad over time.

 

[Revolution]

Since the Prince came along I have been told by many people posting on this board that the meaning of all this "game changing investment" stuff is that significant investment - money to mount a promotion challenge - would definitely come when we were in the Championship, so I should stop moaning about him not putting that money in now.

In other words, jam tomorrow.

Thanks to Chris Wilder (and also to the funds the owners have given him, credit where it is due) it is not tomorrow any more. It is today.

And it seems that the kind of money that we were told about will not be forthcoming. As many have said, this is partly to do with wage and transfer inflation.

But at present, as per usual it seems to be a case of ignore what United say, watch what United do.

So be it. We will stay up, I think. We have a good manager and a decent squad. Even if we do not mount a promotion challenge it will be hopefully still be fun to watch us and the novelty of playing teams we haven't seen in a while will keep interest up. But unless Wilder continues to strike gold or we have a fluke season like Huddersfield "game changing investment" will be required if we are to reach the PL.

 

[BushBlade]

Even then, I don't think even Jim meant that we were going to spend the same amount of money as Liverpool do.
If I remember the context correctly (and I might well be wrong ) it was meant to be a statement that we weren't going to splash the cash in the way Man City were doing back then, but more a steady build up of the squad over time.

It was obviously an analogy. Anyone who says otherwise either has an agenda or is genuinely stupid.

 

[pommpey]

I don't think the Premier League is an ambition, in anyone's eyes. I think if we even deign to believe a back-to-back promotion up there it will be catastrophic. We have not got the consistent age/wage/player structure in the squad to support that and if this set of twenty to thirty hopefuls fluked it, they will either need to be entirely replaced next season or we will be dumped out again, first shout. Part of our story of our failure ten years ago was quality and strength in depth and not even I am asking miracles from McCabe and HRH for that. We are two, three maybe five years away from that.

Given Wilder is in charge these days I am not making too much noise about our lack of investment in the transfer market. The team looked good last season and with a good pre-season I hope he can continue his steady build for better days. The incoming players ... okay ... they don't look world-beaters but I hold my hand up when Wilder brought last season's input in and I blanched at their apparent 'quality'. He even managed to turn previously 'shit' players like Basham, Coutts and Freeman into players we couldn't afford not to have in the squad. I will say this though ... I hope McCabe has some reserve funding in his sky-rocket in case Wilder's first few months turn into a bag of farts. It will be pretty shit drills if we are struggling and injury heavy and the need for key areas to be filled is unanswered. That is where the investment is 'game changing'.

pommpey

 

[mancunianblade]

Wilders new contract is game changing investment...... joking aside I'll take our current situation on all front over any of those Chanps clubs spending outrageous figures we have been there and done that and it put us in League one for 6 years.

4 signings so far 2 players of the year one "media personality" of the year whatever that is and a player who can score for fun add this to a team hat steam rollered the league below the year before and to date we don't look like losing any of the players who made the difference. I'm perfectly happy sticking as we are

 

[blade too long]

depends what you class as game changing

Last season McCabe backed Wilder to get in all the players he asked for

We won the league TITLE and got 100 point

wasnt that Game Changing from the previous 5 seasons
if not like to know what is

Vill reportedly spent 135 m last season to tread water in the championship
yet Hudderfield's game changing investment was under 10 million

It seems some blades just need to see 7 or 8 million on a marquis signing wont let it drop
theres no guarentee buying a proven goal scorer for 9 m means they will even take a penalty

The clubs not being frugal , they are being sensible ,lets see how this amazing squad that delivered beyond our wildest dreams manage first with a few well appointed additions of more hungry players

Why some of our fans want to elbow as many players as they can think of , they dont think will cut it amazes me , they deserve the chance

who knows who will hack it in the championship
buying any player in is a risk , paying 5 or 6 million just because theyve played there is no guarentee , ask villa and norwich

 

[I should coco]

Administration was indeed never on the cards as that would have been a terrible thing for McCabe financially.

No it wouldn't. As the major creditor with secured loans, he would appoint the administrator and would ensure he got the deal he wanted. We have few substantial third party debts so the only people to lose out would be the pie suppliers, coach firm, St John's Ambulance etc.
We would only write off a few hundred thousand and be back at square one. The football league rules mean we couldn't void any players or manager's contracts so administration would be a major public embarrassment for a very modest 'gain'.

I think your anti-McCabe agenda is clouding your thinking on this one.

 

[Revolution]

I don't think the Premier League is an ambition, in anyone's eyes. I think if we even deign to believe a back-to-back promotion up there it will be catastrophic. We have not got the consistent age/wage/player structure in the squad to support that and if this set of twenty to thirty hopefuls fluked it, they will either need to be entirely replaced next season or we will be dumped out again, first shout. Part of our story of our failure ten years ago was quality and strength in depth and not even I am asking miracles from McCabe and HRH for that. We are two, three maybe five years away from that.

I could not disagree more. I do not expect promotion, but it will be far from catastrophic. A well run club can do what Burnley did - go up, spend within your means (and you have a lot more cash from TV money), and if you go down, use your money and the parachute money to keep your best players and get new ones to help you go up, and have a better go next time. This was also the West Brom model between 2002 and 2008.

It was also, to give credit where it is due, what McCabe tried in 2007-8. We were well set, financially speaking, for an immediate return. Unfortunately he appointed Bryan Robson to mastermind promotion.

 

[Revolution]

No it wouldn't. As the major creditor with secured loans, he would appoint the administrator and would ensure he got the deal he wanted. We have few substantial third party debts so the only people to lose out would be the pie suppliers, coach firm, St John's Ambulance etc.
We would only write off a few hundred thousand and be back at square one. The football league rules mean we couldn't void any players or manager's contracts so administration would be a major public embarrassment for a very modest 'gain'.

I think your anti-McCabe agenda is clouding your thinking on this one.

To the contrary, my knowledge of insolvency law makes me reach that conclusion. The idea of a club going into Administration and the same shareholders buying the assets back cheaply on a pre-pack whilst other creditors take pennies on the pound is technically feasible but is fraught with problems. Plus it makes no commercial sense: what if someone else came in with a better offer?

 

[I should coco]

The idea of a club going into Administration and the same shareholders buying the assets back cheaply on a pre-pack whilst other creditors take pennies on the pound is technically feasible but is fraught with problems. Plus it makes no commercial sense: what if someone else came in with a better offer?

I thought I'd explained that there are no substantial 'other creditors', so no-one to rip off?

If you do have knowledge of insolvency law you will know that the fees for a job like SUFC will likely be low hundreds of thousands. I'd be surprised if the trade creditors we plan to rip off are much more than this. When 95% of all the debt on the balance sheet is already owed to you, what would be the point?

 

[Blade for Sale]

We very often accuse McCabe of poor management, but then criticise him for failing to throw millions at a squad which, for all we know, may already be well capable of achieving our aim of consolidation this season. The transfer window closes at the end of August by which time we will have already played 5 tough leage games (and 1 cup). If the squad isn't up to the job, Wilder will have it sussed after game 3. Surely the common sense approach is just what we are doing? Relatively light reinforcements (to what I think is already a competitive squad), presumably to the manager's satisfaction, and assess during pre and early season?

 

[Revolution]

I thought I'd explained that there are no substantial 'other creditors', so no-one to rip off?

If you do have knowledge of insolvency law you will know that the fees for a job like SUFC will likely be low hundreds of thousands. I'd be surprised if the trade creditors we plan to rip off are much more than this. When 95% of all the debt on the balance sheet is already owed to you, what would be the point?

Exactly - no point. And it could have been a terrible thing because he could have been outbid for the assets in administration by a third party purchaser. Too much risk for too little reward. I don't think we disagree.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Why would McCabe put the club into admin. Writing off all his loans, share investment etc AND then spend money buying what were his own assets back? To save on a few trade creditors which saving would be swallowed by costs? It's not fucking rocket science to work out why it doesn't work.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

We very often accuse McCabe of poor management, but then criticise him for failing to throw millions at a squad which, for all we know, may already be well capable of achieving our aim of consolidation this season. The transfer window closes at the end of August by which time we will have already played 5 tough leage games (and 1 cup). If the squad isn't up to the job, Wilder will have it sussed after game 3. Surely the common sense approach is just what we are doing? Relatively light reinforcements (to what I think is already a competitive squad), presumably to the manager's satisfaction, and assess during pre and early season?

The fact that CW has bid for Leonard and Holmes suggests he thinks the squad does need further strengthening now (which it clearly does). The problem is our budget constraints mean we can't even persuade the likes of Southend and Charlton to accept our bids. I doubt either would require substantial bids.

 

[SwissBlade]

If this thread was put up 5 or 10 years ago I think we'd have very different aspirations and expectations.

It seems that now we've seen the results of doing things on the cheap under Wilder, many have reevaluated those aspirations and are seeing that the long term sustainability of the club is perhaps where we need to place the investment. It seems that those words uttered by McCabe, along with "think Liverpool" have been dragged up many times and used against the club as we struggled on the pitch year on year.

However, i do think that the club has invested in itself. The Academy is thriving, the pitch and ground are looking fantastic, the management structure supports the on-field activities and we are now in a division where we can grow.

The players we are signing are not huge marquee signings (although we will no doubt bring in a 'big name' or two this summer) but they are becoming marquee players.

In the past year we have sold two players in Che and DCL whom both had potential, yet we have sold them to support the greater good of the club, its done in a sustainable way. Perhaps we could hold on and squeeze more cash out of the Premier League teams, but its not about that. Its about meeting the price tag we put on them so that we can manoeuvre in the transfer market. Selling these players, ironically will attract other players to the Academy. We are able to develop English and British players to play in the premier league.

The question over Brooks will remain. We may well receive an offer. I'd love to see him stay, but if the price is right and it allows us to buy players who are Championship ready, then the sensible option is to review any offer on its merits. Its not a case of snapping the hands off, but doing the right thing for Sheffield United.

As for promotion to the Premier League, then it may well take a few years to get close. I wouldn't bet against Back to Back promotions, but i don't think its urgent. The club don't need to throw endless amounts of cash at the team, just back the manager that we have to keep taking us forward. All of which seems to be the way that Liverpool work.

 

[Revolution]

In the past year we have sold two players in Che and DCL whom both had potential, yet we have sold them to support the greater good of the club, its done in a sustainable way.

Three: Ramsdale too.

 

[Rodley]

If this thread was put up 5 or 10 years ago I think we'd have very different aspirations and expectations.

It seems that now we've seen the results of doing things on the cheap under Wilder, many have reevaluated those aspirations and are seeing that the long term sustainability of the club is perhaps where we need to place the investment. It seems that those words uttered by McCabe, along with "think Liverpool" have been dragged up many times and used against the club as we struggled on the pitch year on year.

However, i do think that the club has invested in itself. The Academy is thriving, the pitch and ground are looking fantastic, the management structure supports the on-field activities and we are now in a division where we can grow.

The players we are signing are not huge marquee signings (although we will no doubt bring in a 'big name' or two this summer) but they are becoming marquee players.

In the past year we have sold two players in Che and DCL whom both had potential, yet we have sold them to support the greater good of the club, its done in a sustainable way. Perhaps we could hold on and squeeze more cash out of the Premier League teams, but its not about that. Its about meeting the price tag we put on them so that we can manoeuvre in the transfer market. Selling these players, ironically will attract other players to the Academy. We are able to develop English and British players to play in the premier league.

The question over Brooks will remain. We may well receive an offer. I'd love to see him stay, but if the price is right and it allows us to buy players who are Championship ready, then the sensible option is to review any offer on its merits. Its not a case of snapping the hands off, but doing the right thing for Sheffield United.

As for promotion to the Premier League, then it may well take a few years to get close. I wouldn't bet against Back to Back promotions, but i don't think its urgent. The club don't need to throw endless amounts of cash at the team, just back the manager that we have to keep taking us forward. All of which seems to be the way that Liverpool work.

Far too much common sense there.

 

[DaveBassettsgoneonholiday]

It seems some blades just need to see 7 or 8 million on a marquis signing wont let it drop
theres no guarentee buying a proven goal scorer for 9 m means they will even take a penalty

Aha !! You know something we don't BTL ?

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

We were stuck in League One playing boring, ineffective football. We're not in the Championship playing exciting football.

Not sure what the total investment was but, after a few initial hiccups, whatever the amount, it has changed the game... So yes, it was game changing investment.

 

[The Crab]

For me, the time to worry is if CW gets fucked off with any lack of investment.

 

[Slim Man]

I don't want to see us signing £8mil strikers who've scored 12 goals in the Championship.
But a couple of £2/3mil players who will be 'marquee' signings would be nice.

We were told when we went up that's when the 'real' investment would kick in. Well let's prove it.

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

Yep. If he doesn't get a fair share of the Maguire and Walker money he might get pissed off. Wait to see what happens though. You never know he might get the lot but not feel he needs it. Stranger things have happened - this is SUFC after all...

 

[blade too long]

Aha !! You know something we don't BTL ?

try and work on as many levels as I can