Forest bid for MGW

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Bladey_blade said:
What's left for forest however was barely good enough for mid table without all the loans they got
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I think you are over egging the loans ! None of them seemed to be wanted by Forest, other than Spence so the rest of the squad was top 6 standard and includes two or three who will bePremiership standard.
 



Snowflake said:
I think you are over egging the loans ! None of them seemed to be wanted by Forest, other than Spence so the rest of the squad was top 6 standard and includes two or three who will bePremiership standard.
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  • Watford sold Zinckernagel to Olympiakos (so clearly the owner deemed him too good for Forest - a fine example of how to run a club partnership/group properly).

  • Spence has gone to Spurs for silly money.

  • Garner is being touted for a role at Man U under Ten Hag.

  • We refused to let Lowe leave cheaply - most people are now clamouring for him to be our first choice LWB this season.

  • Keinan Davis is the only one who you could argue they've refused to sign


The rest were out of their hands, and I'm pretty sure they'd have loved to have any of them back.
 
Yep would've had them all back and love them all. All replaced apart from garner ATM. Whether it'll gel is another matter.

Funnily think it's only lowe I wouldn't add at this point.

It's a killer when you fall in love with loan players. Ultimately though I only want best for them if they don't come to us. Speaking of which, what do you think is best for mgw?
 
sheffieldred said:
Yep would've had them all back and love them all. All replaced apart from garner ATM. Whether it'll gel is another matter.

Funnily think it's only lowe I wouldn't add at this point.

It's a killer when you fall in love with loan players. Ultimately though I only want best for them if they don't come to us. Speaking of which, what do you think is best for mgw?
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Think agents have had your pants down personally and you will be down by Xmas replicating Fulham's formula of trying to gel eleven players in an extremely competitive league
 
sheffieldred said:
Yep would've had them all back and love them all. All replaced apart from garner ATM. Whether it'll gel is another matter.

Funnily think it's only lowe I wouldn't add at this point.

It's a killer when you fall in love with loan players. Ultimately though I only want best for them if they don't come to us. Speaking of which, what do you think is best for mgw?
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Mgw deserves to play football, I'd be happy for him to join any club and be a starting player
 
sheffieldred said:
Yep would've had them all back and love them all. All replaced apart from garner ATM. Whether it'll gel is another matter.

Funnily think it's only lowe I wouldn't add at this point.

It's a killer when you fall in love with loan players. Ultimately though I only want best for them if they don't come to us. Speaking of which, what do you think is best for mgw?
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Obviously you aren't going to want Lowe "at this point" after getting 2 LBs in duh
 
LudlamBlade said:
  • Watford sold Zinckernagel to Olympiakos (so clearly the owner deemed him too good for Forest - a fine example of how to run a club partnership/group properly).

  • Spence has gone to Spurs for silly money.

  • Garner is being touted for a role at Man U under Ten Hag.

  • We refused to let Lowe leave cheaply - most people are now clamouring for him to be our first choice LWB this season.

  • Keinan Davis is the only one who you could argue they've refused to sign


The rest were out of their hands, and I'm pretty sure they'd have loved to have any of them back.
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Zinck not good enough for Watford to keep. Garner a big question as to Premiership standard. Lowe probably not either
 
Snowflake said:
Zinck not good enough for Watford to keep. Garner a big question as to Premiership standard. Lowe probably not either
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Zinckernagel "not good enough for Watford to keep"...are you aware that Olympiacos are a Champions League team? And that he's actually scored for them in CL qualifying tonight?

I struggle to see how Championship Watford wouldn't have had a place for him.

Not disputing the uncertainty regarding their respective Premier League quality, but you made the point that Forest didn't want to keep them (something which a Forest fan has already disagreed with) and that their squad would have been top 6 without the loans.

sheffieldred, as you're here - whats your take?

Do you reckon you'd have made top 6 without those 5 players?
 
LudlamBlade said:
Zinckernagel "not good enough for Watford to keep"...are you aware that Olympiacos are a Champions League team? And that he's actually scored for them in CL qualifying tonight?

I struggle to see how Championship Watford wouldn't have had a place for him.

Not disputing the uncertainty regarding their respective Premier League quality, but you made the point that Forest didn't want to keep them (something which a Forest fan has already disagreed with) and that their squad would have been top 6 without the loans.

sheffieldred, as you're here - whats your take?

Do you reckon you'd have made top 6 without those 5 players?
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Don't fall for the Champions League trap. I often hear this "they're a Champions League team". The Champions League is shite. Until you get to the group and knock out stages you have a bunch of tinpot teams who would struggle to hold their own in League One, never mind the Championship.

If Sheffield United had played all our history in the Greek league with the players we've had, we'd have to extend the ground to put all the trophies.

Being the best house on a shit street is nothing to boast about.

He scored against Maccabi Tel Aviv. Their squad is worth about the same as Wednesdays.
 
sheffieldred said:
Strange one. Cooper would have to be confident of managing him if he is on big dough.

Let be right, his wages currently are zero so what he was on at Man united is a little bit irrelevant. Its how much of a premium we would pay over the next highest bidder to come to us rather than them (likely west ham who he worked well with and have European football) so 100k+ seems reasonably likely.

I've seen rumours that we will pay a massive signing fee and then pay wages more akin to the rest of of squad. That might work assuming you could spread the signing bonus across the life of the Contract. In essence rather would be the same as a transfer fee. Risk there is he gets lazy with 15 mil in the bank on day one though.

If he is motivated, he could be a steal and actually worth more to us than MGW in terms of giving us the best chance of stopping up given MGW isn't established quality in the prem. We have a lot of people of that mould so the squad would benefit from tried and tested prem quality


On a side, it's interesting how many people know exact figures in the prem (or more likely all make them up) whereas championship transfers are a lot more "undisclosed"
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He'd be a decent signing for you. I think the main issue with comparing him to MGW is resale value going forward. Lingard as good as he is, is probably only going to go down in value. MGW is on an upward trajectory. If that continues, then even if he stays at Wolves it's a matter of time before he goes for a huge fee.
 
To add, our gate of 27,611 in the second tier would see us as:

Italy - 5th best supported behind Inter, Milan, Roma, Napoli. We'd be 4th with our last PL gate.

France - 6th best supported behind Marseilles, PSG, Lyon, Lens, Lille

Spain - 7th best supported behind Barcelona, Athletico, Real Madrid, Real Betis, Athletico Bilbao, Sevilla. We'd be 5th on our last top flight gate of 30,869.

Germany - 6th best behind Dortmund, Bayern, Koln, Leipzig, Stuttgart. PL gate would move us 4th.

We get 7,000 now more than Club Brugge, Belgium's best supported team and similarly more than Olympiacos pre pandemic.

So let's not get too much of an inferiority complex to Olympiacos or any other pub teams, just because they represent the best of a bad bunch, eh?
 
sheffieldred said:
Yep would've had them all back and love them all. All replaced apart from garner ATM. Whether it'll gel is another matter.

Funnily think it's only lowe I wouldn't add at this point.

It's a killer when you fall in love with loan players. Ultimately though I only want best for them if they don't come to us. Speaking of which, what do you think is best for mgw?
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Speaking selfishly I'd love him to come back!

But given that's about as likely as me seeing hair ever again, I think Wolves might give him a go. I'm hearing they've turned down 25m from you guys? So it's going to take a big chunk of change to get them to change their mind.

One way or another, he'll be playing top flight football this season
 



I hope he plays and does well wherever he goes because it's a proof of the benefits of dropping to the championship to kick start your career. All those mentioned we had last year are all much better players and worth more.

MGW along with james garner etc are showing character in putting in the hard yards to develop themselves rather than hang on the coat tails of a prem squad. It is taking a massive risk though as for every MGW there are 10 other prem loanees who don't do much in the champ so for the risk alone, they deserve the rewards.
 
LudlamBlade said:
Zinckernagel "not good enough for Watford to keep"...are you aware that Olympiacos are a Champions League team? And that he's actually scored for them in CL qualifying tonight?

I struggle to see how Championship Watford wouldn't have had a place for him.

Not disputing the uncertainty regarding their respective Premier League quality, but you made the point that Forest didn't want to keep them (something which a Forest fan has already disagreed with) and that their squad would have been top 6 without the loans.

sheffieldred, as you're here - whats your take?

Do you reckon you'd have made top 6 without those 5 players?
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There are many Champions League teams that are not as good as Watford or Forest. If the owner of both clubs had been asked to fund the purchase by Forest no doubt he would have done.
Watford sent Z out on loan to a Championship club, so I doubt that they rated him that highly. You no doubt have watched him 3 or 4 times this season, as I have,and I doubt that he is as good as is being suggested.
We can of course surmise for ages, but I think Forest will be far stronger by next month without their loans, although I am not sure that they ever satisfactorily replaced Joe Baker !!
 
Bladey_blade said:
Siri, define shit or bust. 200k a week on Lingard all but confirmed!! Guess MGW off the menu
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I thought this was just agents talk to try to get West Ham to up their offer. It’s a fucking ridiculous signing if it happens. He’s good on his day but he’s a bit flakey. They don’t seem to have recruited for a relegation battle, like they don’t think they’re going to be in one.
Contrast that with Newcastle when Howe came in last season. The majority of his signings had been involved in them before, like Dan Burn and even Trippier, early in his career at Burnley. Forest have gone a bit “championship manager”. As you say, shit or bust. If it works, they’ll probably be OK but if it goes wrong, it’s going to go very wrong.
 
BushBlade said:
I thought this was just agents talk to try to get West Ham to up their offer. It’s a fucking ridiculous signing if it happens. He’s good on his day but he’s a bit flakey. They don’t seem to have recruited for a relegation battle, like they don’t think they’re going to be in one.
Contrast that with Newcastle when Howe came in last season. The majority of his signings had been involved in them before, like Dan Burn and even Trippier, early in his career at Burnley. Forest have gone a bit “championship manager”. As you say, shit or bust. If it works, they’ll probably be OK but if it goes wrong, it’s going to go very wrong.
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It's happened.
 
Which suits me fine. If we go down I dont want him on big dough in the championship. I am viewing it like a season long loan with a chunky loan fee.

Also it demonstrates that player power has finally tipped the balance. Why would you ever want to be on a long contract as a player who has done a bit? A club can get 20m for you or you can pocket the lions share of it yourself?
 
sheffieldred said:
Which suits me fine. If we go down I dont want him on big dough in the championship. I am viewing it like a season long loan with a chunky loan fee.

Also it demonstrates that player power has finally tipped the balance. Why would you ever want to be on a long contract as a player who has done a bit? A club can get 20m for you or you can pocket the lions share of it yourself?
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Agents have had a fucking field day with forest
 
I still fail to see how 5m in wages (c100k per week) plus say a ludicrous signing on fee of 5m making it a round 10m is any worse than paying a club in the same league £32m for MGW who you might pay 2m a year in wages on. I do get the resale value point though

Let me remind you of your cash up front purchases for mcburnie and brewster. That is more dead money than forest will spend on lingard easily.
 
sheffieldred said:
I still fail to see how 5m in wages (c100k per week) plus say a ludicrous signing on fee of 5m making it a round 10m is any worse than paying a club in the same league £32m for MGW who you might pay 2m a year in wages on. I do get the resale value point though

Let me remind you of your cash up front purchases for mcburnie and brewster. That is more dead money than forest will spend on lingard easily.
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Your JCB has got a very big bucket
 
Seriously though how many times have we seen teams shit or bust, and how many succeed? 1 in 10??? Am i being generous?
 



Slav spunked £100 million when he took Fulham up, only for them to come straight back down again.

We crucified Chris Wilder for spending far less over 2 years.
And took to Slav as the new saviour. - briefly.

A wry smile appeared on the face of Slavisa Jokanovic at the mention of the word 'pressure' in his pre-Cardiff City press conference.

Seven games into the Premier League season, Fulham sit in 17th having won just one game so far, while the 21 goals they've conceded is the most in the entire division.

They're just three points from the foot of the table having spent over £100million over the summer on 12 new faces that were brought in to strengthen the club in order to consolidate in the top flight.

Rumours have surfaced that the people behind the scenes at Fulham are putting pressure on Jokanovic to go back to basics, to abandon his attacking football that saw the side promoted from the Championship and shut up shop to keep the goals out.
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Funny old game.
 
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